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The "liberal" left has gone fully illiberal-
[zerohedge.com]

Over ten months, I have watched with incredulity as the liberal-left has unquestioningly and unequivocally embraced policies, ostensibly to manage the coronavirus pandemic, that are not only illiberal but authoritarian. With each passing day, those on the left-liberal side of the political spectrum display greater acceptance of increasingly oppressive measures. Maybe I should have been prepared.

SpikeTalon 10 Jan 10
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0

Would you be saying the same thing if it was Ebola?

Would you choose to ignore medical advice?

Would you deny the realities of the disease?

Ebola has survival rates of less than 10% in some areas, not 97.5% like C-19.
Which medical advice, there are proponents on both sides of the camp.
What are the realities of the disease?
Let me rephrase that last question for you.
'Would you deny the realities, I credulously accept, without further investigation?'

@AdrianRainbow Your analysis is oversimplified. It is much easier to control the spread of Ebola than it is Covid, so it's a false equivalence. Moreover, not all medical advice is created equal. Would you trust the predictions of a trained physicist or those of a crackpot, whose predictions run on dubious foundations? You are certainly free to draw conclusions based on your own intellectual judgment. But there is a time to defer to those who possess more knowledge and training in certain areas. To do otherwise are the temptations of a fool.

I usually don't ignore medical advice that is sound. Restrictions that I suspect aren't necessary are another story...

Sound, honest advice from one, not only possessing the expertise, but the integrity is something to be trusted, too many of the people giving advice have substituted political motives for integrity. Is any one in his/her right mind still taking advice from Fauci?

@AdrianRainbow You mIssed the point Adrian.
Pick any disease that can be fatal... and transmissable... I think you will also find the death rate in the elderly and those with chronic diseases much higher with COVID 19.

@SpikeTalon You may suspect but you also may be wrong.

@Lightman Maybe, but people needlessly losing their jobs due to lockdown restrictions isn't exactly right either.

@SpikeTalon Me thinks you protest too much. The solutions to these particular problems are never perfect. What would have happened to the U.S. if, during WWII, people saw gas and steel rationing, women forced to work in factories and such as an affront to their civil liberties? Most of the restrictions placed for reducing the effects of Covid are very similar around the world. I would have to believe in a worldwide government conspiracy to think there had been a purposeful assault on my personal liberty. However imperfect, the restrictions are for the public good, regardless of how badly mismanaged they might have been.

@TyKC Me thinks you tend to fall back on your emotions too much, in regards to politics.

If an individual believes there is valid grounds for a grievance, then protesting is an option. These days the left have no problem protesting if they feel slighted by a conservative-based policy. Why not just give each citizen the option to live their life as they see fit, instead of forcing draconian measures on them that even you admitted are not perfect? That would be the truly liberal thing to do, and it was my understanding that the Democrats claim to be the pro choice Party?

I don't believe in conspiracy theories by the way, and regarding the lockdown restrictions I referred to, that more or less is a result of poor leadership skills and not some grand conspiracy. Problem is these days both political sides display poor leadership skills, with some politicians believing more legislation is the solution to all the problems. I disagree on the last part. When I see many of my fellow Americans suffering and struggling to make ends meet due to the Government shutting down their businesses needlessly, that is not anything remotely good for the general public. Be a true liberal, and advocate for choice, instead of what is perceived to be for the common good. Let individuals make their own choices.

@SpikeTalon, @GaryMysels I assume that Fauci reached his position because he had achieved a certain level of competence in the field. If you are saying that he succumbed to political pressure from an incompetent administration and shouldn't have, well it might be well to walk a mile in his shoes before passing judgement. I thought he handled himself reasonably well given the circumstances. At least he didn't get fired. He was smart enough to know that the country needed him there rather than not there so he showed remarkable restraint. For that we should be grateful.

@SpikeTalon Because I can't let you living your life as you see fit threaten my life. If we just let everyone live their life as they see fit, we wouldn't need laws.

@TyKC Over the years I've been witness to highly educated individuals making some of the most absurd mistakes or saying things that made no sense whatsoever. If all of our elected policians/officials were as qualified as you had suggested, then our country would be running far smoother, which it is not. Just because he wasn't fired yet, doesn't automatically mean that Fauci is totally competent, and he did flipflop on stances before in the past which doesn't exactly make him totally trustworthy in my book. Afterall, Trump survived an impeachment trial and will finish out his term up to the 20th, so I'd turn around and say maybe he must have done something right too to remain in office until the end of his term. I'm skeptical by nature, and often do not take things at face value or automatically believe as gospel truth what the supposed experts say.

Regarding your last comment on me threatening your life, one quick question out of curiosity and do know that I am not trying to be mean here... are you by chance high on something/been drinking? I ask that sincerely as your claim to me being a direct threat to your welfare goes way beyond being just a little absurd, aside from it making no rational sense whatsoever. For your information, when out and about I do wear a mask and keep distance from others and frequently sanitize my hands, so how exactly am I endangering your life or anyone else's??? See, this is why I mostly ignore your posts as I know I cannot have a logical conversation with you without you assuming things that are truly irrational. With that said, I openly do not agree with such draconian measures, but when out in public I abide by them regardless, big difference there. Proud yet by any chance? Look at what the Democrat politicians have done to guys like you, making you paranoid of your fellow Americans who might dare to think differently than you do, and you cannot blame that one on the Republicans this time as most of them are against lockdown restrictions.

As for having laws goes, I do question what good are some of the laws on the books? Some states have restrictive laws limiting abortion procedures, do you agree with such laws? I sure don't, as any pregnant woman determined enough to have an abortion done will do so regardless of the laws, so what good are said laws anyway? Do laws against gay marriages prevent all gay marriages from occuring? Of course not, and I think you get the picture. A shame politics have turned us on each other like that, people fearing the maskless automatically concluding minus any strong evidence that they are infectious, how paranoid. I don't operate like that, if an outrageous claim like that is made and I am expected to take the claim at face value, then there better be some strong evidence to back the claim up. Otherwise I've no rational or reasonable obligation to take such claims seriously.

@SpikeTalon Stopping the spread and limiting deaths is the right thing to do though.

@Lightman It is, but draconian lockdown measures aren't doing enough, they aren't a longterm solution to the problem.

@SpikeTalon Its a new disease, its now a pandemic and some people have made it worse by not taking appropriate measure... like social distancing, mask wearing where appropriate, hand sanitizing etc, etc, etc... governments should have stopped O/S border entries, established safe quarantine precautions, instigated proper testing and tracing etc, etc, etc...
The US for some reason let all these things go much like the flip flopping UK and now look where they are.
Simple rule... you are your own risk manager.

@Lightman Oddly enough, the only individual I know personally who got Covid was someone who strongly believed in the lockdown restrictions and always wore a mask when out, and in the end none of that helped her any.

@SpikeTalon take 3....
You only know one person eh..... pfft...
I heard today that there are now 4,000,000 new cases every day.
England's health system is on its knees and I heard California is pretty bad too... but hey I don't know from first hand experience.

@SpikeTalon Globally 90,693,590 infected. Dead 1,943,173.
US
22,917,334 infected
Dead 383,275.

You need a wider circle of friends.

@Lightman I've no shortage of friends, and only told you truth whether you liked it or not. Yes, California is messed up where Covid is concerned, and guess what? California is among one of the worst states for draconian lockdown measures, oh well alot of good that did them...

@SpikeTalon did I say I don't like it? no... you're starting to sound like a Prog.
Hey maybe they just didn't get it right and maybe you people started doing things waaaaay too late.
We here in Australia have managed to keep it under control so far, and yes we had to live through tough times and rules... but it has worked.

@Lightman I never suggested you liked it, don't be so touchy. No shit they didn't get it right. Maybe Covid wasn't as bad in the down under as it is in the States.

@SpikeTalon this is what you said and what I commented on.

I've no shortage of friends, and only told you truth whether you liked it or not.

@TyKC LOL, you originally made that equivalence, LOL.

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Considering this course has been run several times over the last century, yeah, you should have been.
The struggle sessions are next on the agenda.

3

"Maybe I should have been prepared."

Or surprised.

4

They're no longer liberals, they're #Leftists. #AntiFA hates liberals as much as the #Right does.

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