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Is the feminist "male gaze" concept valid?

I constantly hear feminists say that the way men look at, or visualize women is considered sexist. I often hear that it is because the way men visualize women is to see them as sexual objects. Personally I would disagree. I would say that men seem to be innately more visually stimulated than women. I'm not insisting that there are no men who creepily stare at women, but it seems to me that men are naturally wired to be attracted women, and feminine beauty, and it often gets painted as a form of misogyny. If men do have a natural proclivity to objectify women in their minds, wouldn't women also have the same ability, but through different means? What do you think, is there some validity to the theory of the "male gaze", or is it a way to turn a natural proclivity into a negative pathology?

Marcus_Aurelius 7 Feb 16
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1

Can we be honest? In the dominate circumstance of daily hetrosexual experience, women are checking out men, men are checking out women and both are somewhat primal, objectifications based on instinctive checklists buried in our genes. For those in the fluid gender pools the checking out is wide open and perhaps still rooted in genetics. The male gaze attack is just a rhetorical ruse to control circumstances. Now one can be rude with a stare but on average the whole thing takes about 5 seconds those that fail the check list get no more attention. Sadly for the PC crowd nature is and will remain stronger than their biased thinly veiled ploys to undermine natural behaviors!

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You missed the fundamental part of Male Gaze Theory, which is that media content is created in a manner that presupposes the audience to be cis-het-males.
Frankly, a simple Google/Wiki search would have informed you of that.

So the point is : MOST cis-het-males PREFER to see hot and sexy girls THEREFORE, most media content has sexy hot girls.

I'd say that this part is mostly true, in that males do prefer to see sexy hot girls.
However, the theory has a major flaw, in that it doesn't really analyze what other identities like to see in their media.
It could be argued women do also enjoy to see sexy hot girls, which obviously makes their display an optimal marketing solution.

Well if you look at women's magazines for example, they almost always have an idealistically beautiful woman on the cover, so you could argue that women also have a preference for beauty over ugliness.

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Everyone objectifies everyone else. When you know nothing about them you have no choice but to categorise them according to their most obvious attributes in order to determine how to act toward, or about them. Only later, when and if you get to know them as an individual can you begin to treat them as an individual. You objectify your boss as a boss instead of a person. You objectify your taxi-driver as a taxi driver, not a person. You objectify your mother as a mother-figure rather than an individual personality, because that's how the brain works.

I get what you are saying, but I wouldn't say that we objectify people until an initiating interaction, rather I would say that people are naturally apathetic to other people. For example, while walking down the street, I imagine people are more interested in getting to their destination, as long as no one does anything out of the norm, or gets in your way, wouldn't one simply be apathetic, rather than reduce people to objects?

0

Is sexism inherently wrong?

I suppose it would depend on what you consider to be sexist. Surely most things considered sexism could be better categorized as poor manners, or poor social skills. But I think there are certain behaviors that could be categorized as sexism, such as judging a woman by her group rather than by her individual qualities.

@Marcus_Aurelius whats wrong with prejudging based on a group?

@ReallyGoodOptics Nothing intrinsically, I think it is a natural proclivity for people to have prejudgements, as long as you keep in mind that your prejudgement is likely to be inaccurate at least, and that when dealing with an individual from that group, you treat them as an individual with personal agency, and value. When you treat someone based on their group identity, rather than their individual identity, you are likely to attribute to the individual qualities of the group, positive and negative, that they individually may or may not possess. For example, if you believe that women are naturally irrational, and you treat women you encounter in the world as irrational, you will neglect, and alienate the women who are rational, and even worse you would be a fool for acting out a false preconception, and your ability to engage with people will be diminished. You could say, "who cares what others think", but I believe to live effectively within a society, there is a minimum requirement of decency, politeness and social grace.

0

I took a film class where I was introduced to the "Male Gaze" which he eventually added the caveat of the Male Gays (where he played us an example using Silence of the Lambs to prove transphobia in Hollywood). I think most advertisers are seeking the male viewership but I've always been told that women are the biggest shoppers and that advertisers are aware of this and hence attempt to attract the female gaze as well, in magazines etc. Movies might be more male-centric which is a reflection of the hierarchies we are always failing to climb to the top of so we need motivation to, guess, what, attract the Female Gaze!

1

Your attempt at answering your own question was actually pretty good and I tend to agree. I do not think it is valid. I like your follow up question where you asked, don't women also objectify men but in their own means. Yes they do, in my opinion. Men do tend to look at women in a sexual nature, and it is often (if not damn near always) that men will look first to physical attractiveness. Where women will objectify men by looking at them through a social lense, their social status, their economic status, etc. Of course there are always exceptions on both sides. So, if men objectify women by sizing them up physically and imagining what it would be like to sleep with this particular woman, then women objectify men by sizing them up to their social and economic status and imagining what this particular man might be like as a father.

Thank you, I am currently in University for Painting and Drawing, and the male gaze/ objectification argument often gets unjustly levied at me during art critiques, and my suspicion was that the theory doesn't hold water, but it is such a prevalent idea, it does make one curious.

You initially brought up creepy men. And like you said, no one is saying that there are not creeps out there. But if you are a pretty woman, you most likely know that you are pretty. And if you wear an outfit that highlights some of your finer qualities, most (if not damn near all) heterosexual men that see you are going to occasionally "gaze" at those qualities.

1

No validity to that theory, as there is a natural explanation, and you stated such quite clearly.

If there's a natural explanation wouldn't that posit that the 'male gaze' is thus naturalized?

@nickland You got it.

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