I hope your son is okay. We feel the same around here. You are not alone.

I agree with you that these recent outbreaks are because of sick illegals bringing them in. It is exactly why Trump is keeping them longer in the camps —to help them get past some of the 500+ cases of mumps and rubella outbreaks in the masses that are there. These folks have never been under good healthcare and we owe it to our citizens to do at least this much.

The recent outbreaks didn’t come from the illegals, it came from already vaccinated kids because vaccines shed.

@Melw So you're saying, once the vaccine wears off (no booster), a person suddenly contracts the disease without exposure?

@Harpoon of course not. You have to be exposed to it, I just meant that even if you do get the vaccine you don’t necessarily have life long immunity.

@Melw Agreed. Even getting vaxxinated isn’t 100% either. Also, and this is opinion, there’s a strong likelihood that various vaccinations are targeted by strain. For example, there’s different strains of measles. Setting up an inoculation that covers all possible strains wouldn’t be cost effective, and likely reduce its potency. Therefore, vaccinations in an area are set for the most likely strains occurring locally. With that, a person vaccinated against strain “Y,” if exposed to strain “X,” (an illegal immigrant allowed to cavort about Disneyland carrying a non local strain for example) may contract the disease.
Also, vaccinations are just one part of a protective triad. Physical health (diet and exercise), coupled with effective hygiene, are the other parts. A person in a weakened state, even though vaccinated, can be susceptible to contracting the disease.
The force the vax crowd uses these cases to further demonize the small percentage of anti-vaxxers, much like the state trooper or highway patrolman, who push mandatory seatbelt laws by stating, “I’ve never unbuckled a dead person.” Of course they didn’t, the dead person was unbuckled by the paramedic rescue. Very disingenuous.

@HollyLouise This illustrates my point perfectly. Thanks. These travelers to Israel likely received vaccinations prior to their trip also.

And do we really want to give the govt. that much power over us?

I believe in natural selection.

@HollyLouise and the doctors don't know what is in a vaccine or how they are tested so how do they inform you? Did you know that vaccines are not tested against true placebos? And they have never been tested long term or with multiple vaccines being administered at one time?

@Facci Fair enough.

@HollyLouise I agree I my self have not done any real studies. But it is sickening what is going on . Something has been trying to destroy us .

Nope... most of the outbreaks are from vaccinated kids because vaccines shed. Unvaccinated kids can’t spread diseases they don’t have. There was a recent article about a military ship that is quarantined at sea because they have the whooping cough. The military is the most vaccinated group in society.

Mrs_SO, That is unproven propaganda: [oatext.com]

"If the effects of vaccination on health were limited to protection against the targeted pathogens, as is assumed to be the case [21], no difference in outcomes would be expected between the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups except for reduced rates of the targeted infectious diseases. However, in this homogeneous sample of 666 children there were striking differences in diverse health outcomes between the groups. The vaccinated were less likely to have had chickenpox or whooping cough, as expected, but more likely to have been diagnosed with pneumonia and ear infections as well as allergies and NDDs."

Sorry but I have had the chickenpox and I would take that over pneumonia or a nutrition deficit disorder. Same for Measles. It is not a fatal disease yet the vaccine warnings include "Death" as a possible side effect. WTF?

Should we mandate antibiotics for anyone with an infection? They could infect us with a cough.

@Clammypollack Antibiotics are overprescribed. So obviously no. I forgot polio was equivalent to a cough.

@Recket vaccines are over prescribed. And unless you have had 69 vaccines in the past five years, you are unvaccinated and (under your criteria) a danger to society.

@CLSr
I was in the military for the last five years so I've had quite a few including numerous I didn't want. Which happened be the flu shot because in my lifetime it hasn't worked once. Measles isn't exactly equivalent influenza though in the sense that measles does not readily mutate. So in the case of measles and other diseases with consistent DNA, vaccines can be and are effective. In that regard, I will completely agree with you that vaccines and most medications are overprescribed. That doesn't change the benefits of the medicine or the vaccine in this case.

However, you're ignoring the basis of my argument. The good compared the risks of autism. You're ignoring the externality that your argument carries. Is it okay if by refusing vaccines, with little no proof of their dangers, I cause an individual contract a disease that results in their death?

Should we burn down the commercial farms that don't grow organic crops? I mean pesticides carry numerous neurological risks and the only benefit they provide is that food is cheaper which as a byproduct one could argue that lead the increase of obesity in the United States. I mean is obesity better than autism and if so why? Additionally, these pesticides exist in your local marketplace and you are exposed every time you don't properly wash your produce.

The concern that arises in both of these arguments is how much collateral damage occurs without proof. The whole basis of scientific research is that it is verifiable and repeatable. I've yet see any information that supports the contention that vaccines inherently cause autism. On top of that even if vaccines do cause autism; the cause will not be vaccines themselves it will be some component of the vaccine that is likely to be interchangeable. So vaccines will always exist or more people will die each year. Look up polio and tell me that we should allow that level of disability rather than the unproven claims against vaccines.

@Recket you're completely wrong on vaccines. I'm certain, even with being in the military (I was too) that you have had the 69 vaccines that kifs today get before kindergarten. And the vast majority (80%l of adults over 30 have not had anywhere near those numbers...so please explain your false premise of herd immunity. It's a fake term used to sell a dangerous product. You're also on the false idea that because you get a vaccine and don't get the disease, that the vaccine was successful. I wear a seatbelt everyday and haven't been in an accident...therefore seatbelts prevent accidents. Its ridiculous. Just look at diseases that dropped precipitously at the same time as Mumps and measles...that still to this day, do not have a vaccine for.
I truly hate thinking about people that can't think critically being out there and possibly controlling the narrative. Plus, take a look at the Navy vessel under quarantine now...100% vaccination rate/ rampant mumps....

@CLSr

I love that you began your counter argument with "you're completely wrong on vaccines."

Herd immunity is the resistance to the spread of infectious disease that occurs when a large portion of the community is immune to that infectious disease. It prevents the spread of diseases so that immunocompromised individuals have protection. This is accomplished by reducing the number of possible carriers by exposing them to diseases in controlled manners, i.e. vaccines, to provide them the necessary immunity to make this possible. So please tell me how it's bullshit if 90% of people have immunity (number given for MMR vaccination rates in the UK in the Wakefield study) that doesn't limit and/or prevent the spread of infectious diseases? Oh, wait we would have to establish that vaccines give immunity which you claim they don't. So I guess you'll need to show me empirical evidence for someone that received the necessary vaccines and prove they contracted a disease for which they were vaccinated. (https://www.who.int/en/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/measles. You can see the proof of vaccines working based on the statistics given.)

Parotitis is not always caused by the mumps? That would be the obvious response. If you're saying that this case of parotitis is caused by the mumps virus then provide the epidemiological evidence you must already possess to make that claim. That's saying that because I have body aches and the chills; I have the flu. Just because you have symptoms similar to a disease does not mean that you have a specific form of that symptom. Mumps is a specific virus. There are other viruses that cause parotitis and not the mumps.

I literally claimed that certain vaccines don't work. The influenza vaccine is a joke because you're trying to control a rapidly mutating disease. Vaccines work against diseases that don't readily mutate. An example would be smallpox which was effectively destroyed by a vaccine and is now a leading concern for biological terrorism. If they didn't work, why is there a resurgence in areas predominantly anti-vax? Why does no one have smallpox anymore? Should we make every vaccine mandatory no you're 100% right on that? Smallpox, for example, shouldn't be mandatory. The influenza virus should not be made mandatory except in the years that it provides significant benefit because they targeted the correct strains.

How am I not critically thinking? I've already established that I don't mindlessly agree with vaccines which would require me to utilize critical thinking. Where is your evidence? Your side of the argument has one study which was called out for being biased and bad science. Provide actual proof and I will 100% fight on the anti-vax side, but if you can't even convince the average healthcare provider, actual doctors mind you, that vaccines are harmful with the current "evidence" then stop presenting your opinion of data as truth.

I agree that proper sanitation practices have done more for civilization than vaccines especially considering most pathogens are water-based. So since they attacked the source and weren't a prevention measure, of course, they produced better results. You can look at the 1854 London outbreak of cholera for proof of what proper sanitation practices can accomplish and prevent. Who was arguing that point? If we all lived in clean rooms we would never get sick either.

Vaccines work. You have not presented any proof that they don't work. I have presented evidence that they do. Do they have possible side effects? Yes, but so does taking Tylenol, drinking soda, and every other fucking thing people do. My argument has never been that vaccines are 100% safe. That the rewards of utilizing them far outweigh the circumstantial, at best, evidence of their harm. Are antibiotics next? Since I have had reactions to penicillin and cephlasporins should we ban them? They can't be good for any people if they can have any side effect. An obvious response is you're not forced to take antibiotics like vaccines, but the over prescription of antibiotics could be the cause of autism.

Oh and here are a bunch of studies that directly are related to vaccines and not had lines drawn in MS paint on the death rates for the disease over time and proclaim that as proof. You could argue that the increase in urbanization and increased population densities following the industrial revolution reduced death rates based off those graphs. Coincidence does not imply causality. I could go on all day making wild claims and finding "proof" in bullshit and misrepresented statistics.

[jpeds.com]
[jamanetwork.com]
[ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
[ncbi.nlm.nih.gov].

Where are your studies? Where is your proof? The entire anti-vax movement is based off bad science and a mistrust of the government. Don't get your vaccines that's your choice, but are you okay, without empirical evidence of the grave dangers being claimed involving vaccines, killing people because you chose to not get them?

I stand by my belief that vaccines should currently be mandatory but I also agree that they require further research to ensure that the risk does not outweigh the benefits. However, to argue that we should stop utilizing vaccines without empirical evidence is equivalent to diagnosing yourself off WebMD.

@Recket once again. You don't understand anything about the subject. The MMR vaccine has failed miserably. This is why the CDC continues to add yet another MMR to the schedule on a regular basis. Renaming a disease to keep from making the cases an embrassment to the vaccine program only fools the fools.
Daniel's findings have been duplicated over 30 times by the way.
Herd immunity is a sales tool and nothing more. As far as small pox goes: I would suggest that you look up the small pox history ofLeicester England if youd like to learn more about the eradication of small pox. (If you can find it on the internet now since the medical Reich have banned truth.

Great post!!!

Actually, the MMR vaccine has failed so miserably that u0% of those with measles are vaccinated. The health agencies have gone from stating that one MMR vaccine will give you life long immunity, to upping it to 2 vaccines in the 80s. When that still didnt work, they said 3 in the 90s...now they're at 4 in the first 5 yeats of life and a booster every 5 years. That doesnt sound like a successful vaccine to me. As far as polio goes: research what SV40 is doing to our children. In the 50s docs would across the world to witness a with cancer, now every city has childhood cancer wards, wings or entire hospitals strictly treating childhood cancer. Your vaccines are killing us

...That makes no sense. If the vaccines work, the the unvaccinated pose no threat to those who are. It is utter bullshit. And you would deny kids a public education over your fear. I think that sux. Either vaccines work and it don't matter to you and yours or they don't and you are drinking of the koolaide.