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Elon Musk gives scalding take on Biden’s push to free Brittney Griner

“If the president is working so hard to free someone who is in jail in Russia for some weed, shouldn’t we free people in America?” the Tesla CEO asked on an episode of the “Full Send” podcast this week.
“There are people in jail in America for the same stuff. Shouldn’t we free them too? My opinion is that people should not be in jail for non-violent drug crimes.”

[nypost.com]

Garsco 8 Aug 8
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1

There is a great unspoken truth about people imprisoned on "drug related charges here in USA"

That is that almost all of those people are in fact guilty of crimes much worse than mere "drug related convictions". The vast majority of them are in fact guilty of committing extremely violent crimes.
Murder, conspiracy to commit murder, murder for hire, attempted murder, illegal possession of firearms, stolen property, assault and battery, terroristic threats...kidnapping, rape, statutory rape, arson...etc.
Again, the vast majority of those prisoners are unquestionably guilty of many of the violent crimes listed here and more.

The problem is that rarely if ever are Law Enforcement, District Attorneys etc able to find ANYONE willing to testify in court against these violent actors for committing such criminal acts.
And it is understandable that "witnesses" are reluctant to testify - pointing out a violent criminal in court or in a line up is to compromise their very own lives and well being.

The only thing that can be done to get those violent felons off the streets - and to protect the general public from them - is to charge and convict them for crimes that can be proven in Court - Drug related crime.

The guy sitting in a prison cell for any or all manner of "drug related offenses" is really guilty of felony level violent crime. Crime that in many instances would warrant a "capital punishment" verdict.

So, thanks just the same Mr Musk - but I respectfully say "you don't know what the fuck you're talking about" in this matter.

All Capone comes to mind. Convicted of tax evasion because no one would testify against him.

Still the war on drugs seems something of a failure similar to prohibition. Legislating morality is a tricky business and often corrupts government.

@wolfhnd I totally agree but that is a somewhat different yet parallel conversation.
Best thing that could be done would be to completely disband the DEA - eliminate all interdiction initiatives regarding "controlled and illegal substances and to once and for all Decriminalize ALL so called illicit drugs.
Exactly as it did with alcohol decriminalizing and regulating "drugs" will remove the profit motive in the illicit drug trade. Drug lords, gangs, corrupted political figures, all peripheral crime would be almost totally eliminated within a year.
By attrition over time all known violent offenders will also fade away. Some will die in prison others will die in relative obscurity...
I agree! You just cannot legislate morality.

1

And where does one draw the line in that crime, an ounce of weed, forget about it, ten kilos of weed is another story.

The ones who are in prison for "an ounce of week" are there because sale and possession is the only thing the Law could use to get them off the streets. They are guilty of much worse than mere possession and sale and attempt to distribute...The justice systems biggest obstacle is that they can not find anyone willing to testify against those criminals in court for crimes of murder, attempted murder, murder for hire...etc. So the cops and the courts send them to prison for as long as they can for "an ounce of weed".
If they are in prison for "weed" believe it - they are much more dangerous to society than you know. Most if not all of the Black prisoners are known members of violent drug gangs.

@iThink No doubt you are right about much of what you say, it is too bad that the system of "justice" needs to use these tactics.

@ScottforKing yes it is a "crack" that IMHO has been there for a very very long time and it cannot be repaired. As long as there is a brutal, ruthless criminal element amongst the general population good citizens will be understandably afraid - so afraid that they will NOT report crime much less give testimony under oath.

2

I agree with Musk on that one, when it comes to non-violent crimes like that it's the taxpayers who foot the bill to keep such people incarcerated.

almost all of those "possession" convictions are against known killers. Can't get anyone to testify against the gang thugs in court so they get a conviction in any way they can just to get them off the street for as long as possible.
I have NO sympathy for prisoners who have been found guilty of "weed possession" - the justice system is doing what it can to rid the streets of dangerous criminals for a long as they can.

@iThink Griner's case aside, where's your proof almost all of said cases are indeed against known killers? You made a rather bold statement there minus any evidence to backup your claim, and actual statistics otherwise would prove you wrong on that-
[crim.sas.upenn.edu]

[davidsofferlaw.com]

[drugpolicyfacts.org]

[defense-attorney-news.com]

Personally speaking, every single individual that I've ever known who landed in prison over drugs were strictly non-violent and had only hurt themselves with their addictions. My one friend since first grade served a number of years in prison for marijuana usage and nothing more, and to this day a number of years later that past still gives him trouble. Do you honestly think such a scenario is fair or justified knowing all human beings make mistakes, don't you think someone like that should be given another chance to prove themselves rehabilitated? Some are not as fortunate as that friend was, I had another friend of mine Jake who after getting caught up in the system for years over a personal drug addiction, that of which the system did nothing to help him rehabilitate, and sadly he died of a drug overdose at age 33.

That said, I've no qualms with incarcerating those who are genuinely violent such as rape murder or any sort of physical assault etc, as people like that do belong in jail. I take issue with throwing in jail the recreational drug users who for the most part are only hurting themselves and have not actually committed any violent acts. You are also wrong about the justice system doing what it needs to in order to rid the streets of dangerous people. The justice system knows full well that a majority of drug related offenses are not violent in nature and if anything only involve self harm, yet despite knowing such the system has taken upon itself to play the role of punisher instead of helping people to get past their addictions, the system would rather profit directly off of such individuals.

It's fairly common knowledge that rehabilitation is more often likely to produce a productive citizen than severe punishment which disenfranchises and makes people resentful for merely being human and making mistakes (aka addictions of the sort). In other words, what I'm suggesting is a more humane way of dealing with the problem, and it was my understanding that Christians were supposed to take a more forgiving and understanding attitude towards others, but looks like I was incorrect about that conclusion. That said, if you still think your way is the only way in dealing with that issue, then I say if it's something you want then you pay for it, I don't want my tax dollars going to incarcerate some dude with a crack problem who lives in mommy's basement, as there's nothing about that that is truly fiscally conservative, just wasteful spending and permitting the system to profit off of those who mostly don't have the means to fight the system in the first place.

By the way, your war on drugs has been and continues to be a big failure, as every day some law(s) regulating recreational drug usage/sale are being violated. If you have the awareness enough to realize bans and regulations don't/won't work where gun ownership is concerned, why in the actual hell would you believe it would be any different where drugs are concerned? Especially knowing full well how the war on drugs is a big failure, and the wrong people end up behind bars while the real criminals are out and about disrupting the lives of innocent people. You seriously need to rethink your stance on that, and maybe try collecting some evidence first to back your claims, otherwise I've no reasonable or rational obligation to take said claim(s) seriously, as it doesn't constitute reality.

@SpikeTalon you are free to believe as you will.

@iThink True, but my mind can be changed based on actual evidence. I came prepared to counter your previous reply with actual statistics, not just mere opinions. Show me some genuine stats to back your claim, and I'd be more than glad to take such into consideration and modify my stance if need be, as that would be the fair thing to do. I think by now you know me fairly well, and when I insist on a particular stance it's probably for a good reason (meaning I saw evidence to back such views).

@SpikeTalon sorry for the long delay in responding - I have been in the hospital since last Wednesday - got back home today.
In order to get that information you would have to have access to said prisoners files on criminal activity. I happen to well acquainted with several attorneys, both prosecuting attorneys and defense attorneys as well as more than a few police. My neighbor directly behind my property is a female associate of the district attorney - she prosecutes criminals regularly and has done so for quite a long time. Her ex is a retired police officer. I know other attorneys and police officers - one is a nephew who has been on the police force in A medium sized Missouri city...he also is on their SWAT team. I personally know a retired DEA officer.
If you know anyone like this who you could trust to give an honest and direct answer ask them about prosecuting bad actors on relatively minor offenses when they KNOW that the guy is guilty of much worse - usually murder - but can't prove in beyond a reasonable doubt in court for lack of witnesses. It is True.
I know you're going to say my sources are "hear say" - but I do know that THEY know of which they speak. You can go to the Justice department site and look up the data on incarceration stats but I don't believe they track convictions for mere drug related crimes vs the actual rampant wave of violent crime with in the urban core gangster culture.
I think you can probably do a web search on the matter. Might try searching for crimes not prosecuted because of no cooperation of witnesses.
It's true. You can probably find info on prison guards who will tell you flat out that this guy or that guy got the max for drug distribution but that he's a real bad ass and not just some hapless dude who got caught with a quantity of coke, or meth, or pot...
You don't have to accept my reply here - I don't blame you for that. If you are of a mind to come to the defense of people who are incarcerated for "mere" pot related crime then I imagine you do not accept my opinions on this and that's ok with me.

@iThink See, the difference here is that you more or less are going by theoreticals, whereas I am going by actual evidence that is presented (or lack thereof) per each case of said crime. I too know individuals who work in LE, have worked for the Federal Government, and who are also attorneys as well, and most of said individuals would probably disagree with those you know on the matter of drug crimes, based on what they had shared with me in the past on that matter anyways.

Your argument so far has largely been based on what could be or most likely is, an assumption that said bad actors were involved in other serious crimes but due to lack of actual evidence in which to have them prosecuted further, but that's precisely how the system works though. There are many people out there who believe OJ Simpson was guilty of murder, but due to either lack of evidence to support such and or technicalities, he was cleared of murder charges, and like it or not that's how the system operates. If you truly believe your point, then sounds like to me you are disgruntled with the system, which I myself could fall in that category as well. Your sources would not be hearsay either if they were to provide actual evidence to back their claims/suspicions, but anything short of that I'm afraid that would indeed constitute mere hearsay on their part.

To be as fair as possible with your arguing point here, I can agree with you that there are indeed circumstances like that with bad actor criminals getting away with all sorts of criminal deeds due to lack of evidence to have them fully prosecuted or potential witnesses not willing to come forward etc, but while such cases like that are real it is also very real that there are many more drug related cases out there that do not involve a truly criminal intent (the examples I originally posed above). Your initial reply indicated you've no remorse for anyone criminally charged regarding drugs being involved, and you did not leave room for any exceptions to that (none you indicated anyways), including the cases where there was absolutely no indication of truly criminal intent and in fact was simply due to personal addiction, and that rather one-sided remark is what I took issue with. So I'm not totally disagreeing with your point, such scenarios are very real, all I'm saying is there are also certainly exceptions to such in that not all drug related cases are connected to other criminal acts, sometimes some people just have personal struggles (addictions) is all. That said, somehow I can't believe that you truly believe your initial reply to my comment, as it only presents one side of the argument. My concern was the amount of taxpayer dollars that get wasted yearly on cases of personal addictions, and surely our society could do better than that in solving the problem of addictions. I still think it a waste of money to have some crackhead with addiction issues who otherwise is relatively harmless to others (that of which could be proven) being sent up the river for years at the taxpayer expense, not exactly the most fiscally responsible method of dealing with the problem. In the end, I can accept there are two sides to that story and both are realistic, the scenarios you described above, and my scenario with it being strictly an addiction issue, both of those occur. Again, if you do not/cannot provide evidence in Court to back your claims or suspicions, then you will surely lose your case, that's how the current system works, and mere suspicions of wrongdoing won't get you anywhere. I will give you credit though, at least this time around you went into more detail in expressing your point and why you believe as you do, unlike the initial reply which was vague to say the least, and thank you for taking the time to respond.

Hope you are feeling better, that's alot of days to be in the hospital. Can't say you've missed much on here recently, a number of us have been dealing with multiple troll accounts who have been impersonating some of the longtime members of this site, and causing chaos in the process. So far haven't had any exchanges with those trolls, and have been laying somewhat low avoiding posting in certain groups and sending more public thread posts to my profile instead. On a random side note, I'll be looking forward to the Allentown Fair in a few weeks from now, and the reason why I mention that is related to a promise (well, sort of a promise anyway) I made to you and a few others some time ago saying that if I ever reached level 10 on here there might have to be a face reveal in the works. Cannot find that post now, but I mentioned that on one of your posts, that much I can remember. Never was that thrilled with social media let alone posting my face in any profile page, but while at the Fair I probably could get a friend to take a picture (not into that selfie stuff), and if so I'll probably post it in my profile for a few weeks, and make good on my word regarding sharing that once I had reached level 10 on here.

@SpikeTalon ok...Trolls. as I encounter them I block them and never give them another thought. Face - I never felt any compulsion to show my face although I believe there might be a few pics of my late wife and I in my profile. Level 10 - Hell, I never even aspired to get to any level. I do have a near impossible to restrain impulse to "share" thoughts and ideas and opinions of course and here I am at level 9...I guess I could think of it as a "happy accident" ha!
I think a few weeks ago there seemed to be a noticeable decline in activity here on IDW community. Had no idea why that might be.
People in prison on "drug charges" - I just don't have the energy or the need really to go do the hard research on something that I believe is obviously true. I stand by what I said and that's good enough for me. You don't agree and I'm ok with that.
Britney Griner - fact is she reveals such a profound level of stupidity smuggling drugs into any foreign country - if she truly thought it would be ok then why would she try to hide/conceal her illegal cargo. I feel no sympathy for her any more than I felt sympathy for the "American kid" who got flogged in (was it Singapore?) for committing "petty crimes". When was that 10 maybe 15 years ago? He had it coming. I'll bet it never occurred to him to do it again! LOL!
If and when Britney Griner gets released she won't demonstrate any gratitude - she'll just try to rationalize her own stupidity by blaming her "troubles" on some notion of "archaic laws..." Personally I really do not care if she remains in a Russian jail cell for 10 years. Maybe she'll learn some humility and not take American Liberties so casually. I doubt she will.

@iThink I agreed with Musk's overall take on the matter, I however do not have any measure of sympathy for Griner, who is nothing more than an over-glorified privileged crybaby in my opinion, and also don't care if she has to spend the rest of her life sitting in a Russian prison.

Yeah, the trolling has increased, yesterday one of the accounts in question made it to the Senate group, he is impersonating a longtime member on here. That all got me thinking if it really is a good idea to post my face on here, we'll see I guess. For what it's worth, can't find now the post I'm referring to here, but was pretty much joking when I said to you if I had ever reached level 10 there'd be a face reveal, and the levels never meant much to me either. Actually, I wish Admin would do away with that part of the site, sure wouldn't miss it any.

Just because you believe something to be true does not necessarily mean that it is, and if you're fine with going on what could possibly amount to assumption, that be your choice, and going with evidence be mine. Again, I'm not totally disagreeing with you on that, as that sort of thing does occur, and what I mentioned also occurs and I've personally known individuals who found themselves in such a situation. Based on your initial response to my comment I had concluded that perhaps you wanted to have a detailed convo on the matter including citing specific references, but if I be wrong about that and you don't have the energy to go into specifics, that's certainly fine too and I understand.

@SpikeTalon
Actually, I wish Admin would do away with that part of the site, sure wouldn't miss it any - well its not really making the site difficult in anyway. I think admin keeps it in order to encourage more participation / more activity and that seems valid.
Ok - gotta go get some rest. TTY later.

@iThink Hope you are feeling better, take care.

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