Where do we draw the line though? Are we supposed to turn a blind eye to all the negatives coming from guys like Trump while only focusing on the good things he's done? As for me, I can't do that, because if politicians act out like that even some of the times that tells me they are not mentally stable individuals who can be trusted in the long run.

Trump is still at it, and his latest rant is sure to please the Democrats-
[hotair.com]

That sort of thing does nothing to advance the conservative cause.

@SpikeTalon

I agree but I'm not much on principles other than in my personal life. I think public and private morality are different animals. Kind of along the lines of "give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to god what is god's". I see Trump as an institution and institutions can't be moral. Morality is a property of the individual not the body politic. So I have struggled with the same questions you have but that is my solution.

It's a lot like the situation that I have observed in my new location. A year ago I moved to a small town and the surrounding area has a lot of Mennonites. In their personal lives they still adhere to the "simple life" but for business a few have cell phones etc. It's a question of where do you draw the line.

One of the problems with liberals is they think institutions can be moral. They made the mistake of throwing the baby out with the bath water when they rejected religion. Some of that is related to how religion has long been at odds with science. Liberals not only "believe the science" they worship it. By that I mean they adopted humanism which is closely associated with the enlightenment and science. The problem arises out of science being necessarily deterministic. Liberals have adopted natural philosophy or naturalism and tried to derive humanism from it. That is all good and fine to a point but unfortunately determinism precludes freewill. Somehow they are able to handle the cognitive dissonance that arises out of the contradiction that individuals do not have freewill but the engineers in social engineering must. They are all about social engineering. It's almost as if they have reassigned freewill to institutions instead of the individual. The question becomes how do institutions have freewill if the individuals who make up those institutions do not? Once you go down the road of no freewill you have basically decided to deny the possibility of morality.

Allegorically Trump is Caesar. We don't expect Caesar to be "moral". That doesn't mean we can't give to Caesar what is Caesar's. It doesn't violate any of our moral principles if we remember that morality is only a property of the individual. Voting for Trump doesn't preclude us from living with those around us in a moral way. The hope is that by doing so the body politic is infected with morality. The spread of that infection will take generations. Patients and hope are virtues that are not particularly popular but unfortunately necessary.

Not much argument from me there, and pretty much all the politicians in my country lie through their teeth.

For me, it may be a bit too soon to accurately and fully assess the legacy of Trump's first term, but you certainly offer some thoughts worth considering. And he did actually do some very good things for the country.

My country doesn't need more traitors, and I don't trust any politician who threatens to do away with or even suspend the Constitution.-
[foxnews.com]

We also have a ban on bump stocks thanks to Trump, and that was an infringement on the 2A.

@SpikeTalon You think the bag of stinking human excrement that's in the WH now is better? Got it!

@angelo I didn't hear @SpikeTalon saying anything like that. To state an issue with Trump is not the same thing as preferring Biden.

@angelo No... I think DeSantis would make a better President than Trump would in 2024, that's my point. Besides, what's wrong with offering up criticism of all politicians, rather than feel compelled to take sides? I see mass corruption to both the left and right of me...

@KeithThroop Thank you, and you're right about that, never said anything positive about Biden there as there's really nothing positive to say about that man. That wouldn't be the first time I dealt with a similar response, as to some on here criticizing Putin somehow automatically equates to being pro Zelensky, even though I distrust him too just as sure as I distrust Putin.

Pointing out contradicting statements made by certain politicians we otherwise would be inclined to support, and suggesting we think a bit more for ourselves and question said statements a bit more I suppose is too much for some to take. Small wonder why we have so many RINOs these days, not enough questions are being asked. And personally I distrust any politician who even merely suggests doing away with or suspending the Constitution, as I hear about that enough coming from the radical left.