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Do you feel guilt and shame due to the color of your skin?

Excerpt from James Lindsay's "The Problem with White Fragility" [newdiscourses.com] :

"In 2018, the “whiteness educator” Robin DiAngelo published a bestselling book called White Fragility. This book is intended to teach white people about their own racism. More than that, White Fragility teaches white people about the ways they resist learning about and challenging their own racism because of something DiAngelo calls their “white fragility.” White fragility is characterized by DiAngelo as a kind of inability to face the “racial stress” of being accused of “racism” and “white supremacy,” leading them to act out emotionally or to refuse to accept the accusation.

...

DiAngelo’s idea of “racism” separates all white people into just two categories: racists who admit it and racists who won’t admit it. “Racists” and “racists.” This second group, she diagnoses, suffers from “white fragility” and is the target of her book."

While not trying to appear to favor one side of the debate, here are 5 Reasons the Book “White Fragility” is Shallow and Destructive

"White Fragility" has been a NY Times "Best Seller" for over a year with Ibram Kendi's "How to be an antiracist" in close second. It has been argued that both book's mission is to sell guilt and shame to whites and incite violence towards anyone who doesn't publicly support the message. Are you buying it? How to stop the people who are making these books their new bibles on how to treat themselves and others?

Are books like "White Fragility" promoting...

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Admin 8 June 10
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1

Have you ever seen a white person rage out at the merest criticism by a non-white person for making a racially insensitive comment? That being said, now is a time for action, not reading lists.

20

In answer to the question, No.

In response to the charge, Fuck them

Edgework Level 8 June 10, 2020

Finally, an answer woke progressives will understand! 👍

19

God made me the way I am, for me to apologize for being white, having green eyes or even being a Texan is disrespectful to God and assumes He made a mistake. I’ve had struggles too, how many time have I been passed over for a promotion, a raise, a new job only because I don’t meet the quota demographic required? Numerous. White privilege? I guess I missed the boat on that one. I’ve had to work for everything I have, NOTHING has been given to me not was I owed anything.

Yeah ... its funny to note that the ONLY “Problem” I ever had with being a White Male was when some version of an HR Rule Book or Mandate decided I didn’t “fit” the desired “Demographic” ...

11

Guilty about being white? This is something I have no control over. It's like feeling guilty about being a biped, or guilty about being an omnivore.

I remember something that happened when I was in the Corps. I pulled a weekend night watch as NCO over a barracks building. There was an incident that emptied the barracks, I traced it down to a black guy who pulled the barracks fire alarm to get revenge on a white guy and a Hispanic guy who exchanged ethnic slurs in a drunken fight. He wasn't part of the fight and he didn't even witness it.

I asked him why he pulled the alarm. "It was racial," he said,"what would you do if someone called you a honkey?" I told him I'd laugh, and he looked at me with incomprehension.

It was almost forty years ago and we probably still don't understand each other.

11

I haven't read the book, so I cannot speak for the book. However, I think it's absurd to disregard and shame entire races of humans because of skin color and the faults or decisions of their ancestry.

To do that would be racism.

Oh, wait. . .

And not all white ancestry were involved in the slave trade or Jim Crowe or the countless other sins they lay at our door. MLK’d dream was to raise his people up not to drag everyone else down.

9

I have no guilt, no shame, no fragility to my race. I'm personally sick and tired of the 400 years of hatred to my race because of something I had no part in, wasn't born during, and am completely against. So, there's that.

9

Irony Oh Irony, I’m being judged a racist because of the color of my skin. 🤔

9

I am not guilty. I never traded slaves, I hire on merit, I pay taxes, I vote, I suffer no shame and I am not fragile.
To the fragile - go hide and weep in the corner.

Rick-A Level 8 June 10, 2020
9

Not in the least. I am what nature created me as, and there should be no shame in such.

I think it’s only white leftists that are fragile. I didn’t trade slaves nor have I ever raged at anybody about unfair criticism.
No guilt.

@Rick-A Same here.

@Rick-A Can't even take a hypothetical white person being accused of hypothetical rage without doing the "no you're fragile!"

@WilyRickWiles What you smoking? It’s compounding your leftist fragility.

8

I have absolutely no shame for being white, and people who try to offer black and white solutions (trust me, no pun intended) to complicated issues do far more harm than good. I have no desire to stop people from writing such books because they have their right to freedom of speech. I do have a desire for the people reading them to be smarter, act smarter, and exercise good judgment.

8

“Do you feel guilt and shame due to the color of your skin?”
NEVER.
DiAngelo is an asshole.
I’ve often felt fortunate that being white eliminates some potential problems however ... “feeling guilty” about being white is laughably something that never occurred to me.
Do I ... should I ... feel “guilty” about being Male? Being right handed? Having a relatively high IQ? Being able to read and comprehend? Belonging to a Gene Pool that reasonably expects to live into my 90’s?

Do I “feel guilty” that, despite several doctors telling me I was going to spend the rest of my life in a wheel chair ... that I would never walk again, that I would never use my right arm again, I found within MYSELF the fortitude to tell them to “F&ck Off” and got back on my feet and most people have no idea I was EVER in that accident as I slam full bore down a ski slope? NOPE.

That’s like asking ... or expecting ... me to “feel guilty” for having accumulated a Massive Collection of “Tools”.

If you are convinced or coerced into “feeling guilty” about the assets you were born with ... the “Gifts God Gave You” ... then perhaps you can go out and chop off your leg so you can “Feel Their Pain”.

This is yet ANOTHER “Feel Good” Incredibly STUPID Question.
Where DO You get this Crap?

8

It never ceases to amaze me how woke-progressives seek to built fairness and equity using confrontational terms like “white fragility”, “rape culture”, or “toxic masculinity.”

Post-modern leftists don’t care about communities of colour, sexual assault or gender issues. Their mission is to stoke and harness outrage to achieve the bigger goal of toppling the existing power structure.

In fact, there is so much racial harmony in the liberal democracies — backed by legislative guidelines and remedies— that woke-progressives had to invent a whole new world of “invisible” racism. DiAngelo sees a vague, hidden racism of which the offender is completely unaware. The “dog whistle” allows the woke police to speculate on what may lurk in the mind of someone who words are non-racist. Institutional racism is completely undefined and must never be questioned, but progressives know it exists, somewhere, somehow. And “white supremacy” assigns a whole set of largely unseen benefits to an entire group of people based — how racist is this? — on their skin colour.

If you go along with the lie, you’re admitting you’re a racist. If you refuse to sign onto the lie, you’re also a racist. Either way, it’s the woke side for the win.

GeeMac Level 8 June 10, 2020

I think its odd what they’ve turned the word “racist” into anyway ...
The old term of “racist” was to have a strong preference for Your Race ... these days more akin to Your Culture.
EVERYTHING by the way is “Racist” ... that is, from Plants and Microbes to Fish and Birds. Each strives to put THEIR Genetic Material forward and only incidentally might damage something else’s.
I’m not a “BIGOT” ... I’ve lived problem free in the Caribbean (Black & Hispanic) ... in the Inner City of New York (Pick a Race) and never had any static with anyone because of Color, Creed or Ethnicity (except Muslims) although when NYC came up with the concept of “Hate Crimes” (ONLY Whites on Blacks) I found that problematic.
I’ve had girlfriends of every Color, Creed and Culture (except Muslim) and found that they are remarkably all the same ... except in the way they “see” themselves ... American Women seem to have the WORST Self Image.

The phrase that “Birds of a Feather, Flock Together” is a perfect example of Natural Racism ...

I don’t think that “Racism” is the Real Problem ... BIGOTRY is.

Definition of
bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.

especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

@Bay0Wulf Very Nice post I agree 100%

6

It's OK to be white

6

The idea that only white people are racist is complete bullshit.

I can remember the time when one of my collage friends needed a ride to his house cause his car was broke when we got to his house his mom meet me at the door with a broom cause she didn't want no honky in her house. my black friend was rather embarrassed by the whole indecent didn't bother me at all.

6

Group guilt, class guilt, and guilt by association are all toxic, and false narratives. I believe in individual responsibility. I reflect upon my actions, before and after taking them. Any guilt that I have is based on that reflection. Not on wild accusations that have no basis in fact.

And something more important: I cannot seek forgiveness for something I did not do. Moreover, the people who want to impose group guilt do not offer or even postulate a path toward forgiveness. They only want to shame.

Absolutely agree. Collectivism looks a lot like tribalism, and is most often aimed at oppressing individualism.

5

When I first started working for Shell, the oil company, I was sent to a meeting about Shell's "diversity" program. The message was that all of us are just a collection of demographic identities. In other words, I'm not "Bill Kelly - individual." Instead, I'm "Bill Kelly - male, white, engineer (now disabled), hiker (not anymore), photographer, failed Christian, Republican, etc.." To them, anyone who spoke of individuality was just a white male reinforcing his dominant position. That was in 1999. Eventually, I would be asked to leave Shell, but my time there taught me how ugly the "diversity and inclusion" industry is and how deeply that philosophy has penetrated into all kinds of companies and institutions.

As the title of the article in response to the White Fragility book said, the philosophy that promotes this idea is shallow and destructive. These people are self-deluded into a philosophy that must deny any possible opposition to their ideas. They are like conspiracy theorists who see every piece of evidence against their alleged conspiracies as just another part of the cover-up. They have been taught to feel so self-righteous about their views that they cannot tolerate any other view. If people wonder how the town of Salem could have descended to the point of executing "witches," they need look no further than DiAngelo and her fans.

5

No feeling of guilt,,,none at all. I'll NEVER be guilty for the actions of others. 😎

5

Also, that picture looks almost exactly like nazi propaganda from WW2.

Maybe. I think the guy holding the book looks like a Chinese communist soldier in a Maoist roundup of non-conforming citizens.

Thanks, close... I took it from a Mao-era, cultural revolution propaganda poster and did some photoshop on it. The man was holding up a "Little Red Book" (Mao's teachings).

5

Combating racism with racism only begets more racism. If blanket racism exists, then why were the slaves freed and civil rights laws passed? If the patriarchy is evil and oppressive, then why has it freely lifted its past customs and traditions? The average American is liberal and open minded. Conservative politics does not preclude a person's compassion and sense of liberty for all.

In the national debate of racism, and white privilege, there is an inability to accurately define terms, so that both parties can agree on the terms and progress can be made. 250 years of slavery in the Americas prior to the American Civil War gave way to Abolition, Civil Rights, consolidated political power. Black America has considerable political power as a voting block and will likely elect Donald Trump in 2020 as they had in 2016. If the racist rioters did not burn the places of employment in African American communities to keep them dependent on DNC policies, we could work as a community to dismantle the illegal drug commerce that strips Black America of its voting power.

Facci Level 7 June 10, 2020
4

These ideologies are just aimed at keeping racism alive and growing it from the other end of the spectrum.

Basically this,

4

Don’t waste too much time focusing on blacks. Direct your intellectual efforts toward the tribe of Robin DiAngelo. This is where leverage and effectiveness can be found.

4

Great, just what we need, yet another idiot trying to tell us all who we are and what we think without ever talking a single moment to get to know any of us.

4

This ideology is reminiscent of "Mein Kampf" by Adolf Hitler. This is a fact.

You’re glowing.

3

Every human being is racist. It is a result of the genetic programming that made it more likely for our ancestors to have survived. It is part of the caution built into us to be vigilant of unknown situations and to mistrust other groups we encounter that seem in some ways different than us.

I am racist. I do not want to be, I try not to be, but once in a while I feel distrust of other races and ethnicities and a wanting to reject them.

The extreme left, in their white fragility, are expressing their racism by assuming they are superior to others and the only ones who can correct this injustice. This carries over with political correctness and the condescending way they show their supposed acceptance of others.

It is interesting that black fashion, music and verbal expressions have been adopted by other groups without accepting the community.

If a certain group wishes to become part of another group they need to adopt the trappings of the other group's culture, and promote their value to it.

Pand0ro Level 7 June 10, 2020

Racism isn't genetic programming, even if, to some extent, tribalism might be.

We are not genetically programmed to be racist, It is one of the emergent manifestations of our genetic program to be cautious.

Well I agree with it being tribal, politics, and sports teams being a couple examples. Stone age tribes may actually accept someone from another race and even breed with them perhaps for genetic diversity but probably only if they arrive in small numbers and the rest of the unknown tribe is distant.

We shouldn't think of instincts as a set of computer instruments that initiate after some specific input. Like an ameba they cause movement or behavior towards positive chemical signals and away from negative chemical signals. In humans we call instincts emotions. The way they are expressed is dependent on the environment and conditioning.

People can certainly be conditioned to be anti racist. The problem seems to be they are being programmed to be just a different type of racist. A type of racist that hates their own race. The likely explanation is that our sociologists and people in the humanities in general are as dumb as a box of rocks. Equally dumb are the Antifa and others that are taking advantage of the conditioning because it is bound to backfire somehow.

@wolfhnd The way instincts manifest can be extremely complex. In order to survive we can not go through observation and risk calculation in any conscious way. We need to take in a whole scene at once and immediately react to it. Could be that a situation could warn of danger but if a certain kind of bird were present there it could say there is no danger here. Computer programs are rigid and must have every parameter written down to work. Our instincts are way beyond that.

@Pand0ro

Have you seen Jordan Peterson's talk on disgust sensitivity?

@wolfhnd Disgust sensitivity seems like it is outside of instinct. It is partially cultural partly individual experiences and partially personality type, but it is defiantly human. We are blessed and cursed with imagination. We can and do make up stories in our minds and can take them for fact even it compete fantasy. Our sense of disgust can take root there also.

I hear most people refer to Jordan Peterson as a conservative, but his is really quite balanced in his thinking. He tends to the conservative while I tend to the liberal while being disgusted with the far left. The political correctness, cancel culture, activism that aims to destroy, and the thought that no conservative could possibly have a valid point of view. I am grateful to Jordan, Eric Winestein, Sam Harris and Ben Shapiro for their honesty and that they really want to accomplish things instead of just talking about it.

@Pand0ro

Would be hard to test I suppose.

I only watch Peterson, may have something to do with having a similar early life experience but I tend to agree with him on a lot of things. Have to say I'm not so keen on his biblical series of his take on Jung,

3

Its to generate guilt and is purely destructive, i've seen people post links to it as a proxy to an argument, its a double bind, "agree with my contentious proposition or you are a..........".

3

No guilt, my skin did nothing wrong!!! And to feel shame would be feeling shame of my father, and that i do not!!! My dad was greatly loved, he was the big boss of the harbour bridge in australia, paul hogan worked for my dad. My dad was so greatly loved that an aboriginal guy made him something very special, which i have kept with pride, and an egyptian man who also worked for my dad carved a beautiful seat for me, and so many others loved my dad, he was the kindest most placid man i've ever known. And the colour of his skin, well, let's see, when he was in the office most of the time, he was white, but when he was out with the guys on the bridge most other times he would turn black, so does colour really make much difference? Seeing most of the girls throughout history tan on the beach to go dark, while dark people are always trying to lighten their skin. People really need to forget about colour and see a person for the person they are within!!!

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