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Have you lost a good friend to the "Culture Wars"?

Tell your story. Was it mutual? Are you sad about it? Have regrets? Ideas on how to move forward?

Have you lost a friend to the "Culture Wars"?

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Admin 8 June 27
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12

Well , I’m not sure how this fits the narrative , but my wife’s therapist and her say I’m a Trump humper , after a 25 year relationship she’s divorcing me... I was pretty bummed at first , but I kind of feel like this is what the Holy Spirit has in store for me , so I’m making it as easy I can and trying to wait on the Lord the best I can.

Callnote Level 7 June 27, 2020

Oh geez... that's terrible. Can only hope that the Trump reason was just one of other reasons why it didn't work out. There's always 2024.

@Admin oh hey ,,, it s a two way street indeed ... I’ve been trying to minister more and I’m not being supported anyways ... besides that , I’ve had a good idea this was how this would turn out before it started but I did it anyways

9

I am a super-extrovert, so I know a great number of people of all beliefs and personality types. I cut off relationship with sociopaths as soon as I realize what they are, but not everyone else. So I have become fond of many people, including some who are weak in character and unable to think all the way through the fallibilities and history of socialism.

So among those are the people who find my support of the Constitution offensive, and most have walked away from me - some with prejudice. I shall miss most of them deeply.

Some I will not miss, as they seem to fail to understand that their own boundaries should be the limit of their judgments of other people - perhaps emotionally traumatized arrested development, so some of them even say things like "All Republicans should be killed." I doubt my chances of reconciliation with them.

I've seen a growing desire to just "eliminate" the other side instead of viewing them as people with different views. Scary times. Thanks for sharing.

@Admin Isn't the term "CANCEL" 🙂

@Lightman haha right on

@Lightman No it is eliminate, let us call "a spade a spade" and not adulterate the language with political euphemisms.

@Thasaidon It's not my euphemism.

8

I've recently lost a dear friend when I pointed out, in a small group text of three people including me, that the far left had become a cult and they were the real racists. My friend said she wanted to break up our friendship. I wished her well and asked her to consider the possibility that her cult had been lying to her and that was it. I've been too overwhelmed by the political events lately to let the emotions of losing a friend sink in. Political differences was a non-issue for me just a little over a year ago but now I feel I am ready to let go of any friends on the far left. When in the warring mode, we tend to bring out the worst of ourselves--it's the case for me at least 😟. I'm much less friendly, patient and tolerant and more judgmental. Yesterday I listened to a clip of Jordan Peterson's talk from 2017 where he asked people to not aim to win, but aim for peace (in chaotic times). He also said "the way your set the world straight is by constraining the malevolence in your own heart." His remarks are very relevant now and I hope he will come out to speak again soon. And my question for him will be: how do we keep our peace while still winning the culture war lol 😛

Naomimi Level 7 June 27, 2020

Aiming for peace is tough when the opposition seems to be aiming for destruction of the good things among the bad. Focusing on truth and love might be our only hope.

8

Unfortunately, most of my relatives, my on-line friends, and my gal pal, are anti-Trumpers. Most every real life get-together ends in verbal battles.

I'm sure a number of them have stopped reading my social media posts as well. No loss, cuz I don't read most of their posts anymore either, unless they post photos of their kids, travel pics, or cats.

I have noticed that most of them no longer post articles since the most recent riots, and any talk of Black Lives Mattering is pretty much non-existent.

No one we know has come down with Covid, but I know they'd blame Trump if they did. Only a few have lost their jobs during this pandemic. The rest all work from home, so there hasn't been major lifestyle changes, other than the hassle of sheltering in pace.

They can moan and groan all they want to, but most have more money in their pockets since they no longer can go out for drinks, dinner, and compulsive shopping expeditions. My gal pal has saved $500 the last three months cuz she can't get her hair done LOL

Yes, for many it is surprising to find out what you really don't need but were in the habit of putting out for. The rest of your post sounds pretty much as it should be.

Hopefully there will be more silver linings than hair cut savings 🙂

My husband and I are in one accord. Some areas, he's got no interest. Reasonable to me. People we knew leave in some way.
I have a big love for peace and quiet. Too much crud going on.
Seems on many levels.
There should be more email casual pen pals but maybe done through a center so nobody could fixate?

8

Oh lost a job around 2002 in a chamber of commerce by saying the UK would leave the EU in ten years with reasons, they were Europhiles, was told "my face didn't fit". Now they are defunct lol.

Karma is a real Bi+c#

7

If I have, I never noticed. Most people usually find me tolerable even if they disagree, so I think I'm in good shape.

6

Fortunately, I haven't lost anyone who I consider to be a friend to the culture war. I have acquaintances who I wouldn't associate with and who probably wouldn't want to associate with me, but they're people with whom I don't discuss politics or religion. Those are relationships I would consider to be of minimal value anyway. The relationships I value tend to be with people I consider to be thoughtful and fairly open-minded. If I was still working I might have a different answer. When you're retired, you can more easily control who you spend your time with.

5

around April 1 I deleted my FB for good. its been lonely but I have to say it was the best decision. I spend much more time with my kids, and the chances of committing something to record that can have my career permanently canceled have dramatically decreased.

In the end some true friends have reached out to me. some whose politics even don't swing my way. we have private thread groups on messenger now. and I call and write my parents and relatives directly now with pictures.

RobD1 Level 7 June 28, 2020

I think Facebook serves to prevent people from forming meaningful connections with others. It offers a superficial sense of connection but it is not the same as actually meeting with someone IRL, so it is always unsatisfying. This might be deliberate, to leave people wanting more and make it addictive. Also (other than DMs) it's all in front of an audience, and everything is connected to your real name, so there is pressure to conform to others' expectations rather than be genuine. I deleted mine years ago and I should have much sooner.

5

I lost an entire friend group. I have to say "good riddance" because I feel much better now that I'm not arguing with these people any more. But at the same time, I miss the friend group I had before literally every conversation became political and turned to language policing and accusing people of being a fill-in-the-blank-ist or a fill-in-the-blank-phobe.

I am a liberal. My friend group also consisted of liberals. As the group around me turned into an SJW echo chamber, I kept asking critical thinking type questions. Even when I was not actively backing an opposing viewpoint, just questioning parts of the rhetoric was enough to make them gang up against me and start villainizing me.

It doesn't help that I also have a sarcastic and sometimes dark sense of humor. If I dared make even a slightly off-colored joke, it was always a recipe for another highly emotional argument. I found myself walking on eggshells and trying really hard to keep my mouth shut all the time just to try to avoid arguments. It was extremely stressful and I didn't feel like anyone actually liked me any more. Eventually, I was avoiding them for longer and longer periods. Then, one day, I realized I was a lot less stressed when I was not talking to them. So I stopped.

In that group, I was considered way too far right. I was called a Nazi and a fascist (among other things). Here on Slug, I'm still pretty far left compared to the majority of folks I've seen. (And I consider myself a liberal and a democrat.) But nobody's called me any names here. Everyone seems pretty respectful, which I am enjoying.

People who don't allow dissenting voices are the real Nazis. Glad to see you here 🙂

@Naomimi Thank you! Glad to see you here too!

Why...why you sound like an actual Liberal!

We can use you to protect this site under the Endagered Species Act!

@Terence57 (weak coughing. Rasping voice) Please... save me... before it's too late...

@RavenMStark
In times past, the Liberal and Conservative Mind were as 2 lobes of the same brain.

It came down to a difference of perspectives approaching essentially the same goal, the furthering of the Human Condition. That is stil the case, but the moniker "Liberal" is being misapplied to the Left.

Leftists are not Liberals. Liberals and Conservatives are about Freedom. Leftists are about Control, and the State is the means to that control.

Over time, a sort of "shorthand" develops. For instance, does the message ennoble or disparage? Is it about envy or possibiities? Is someone suggesting a productive path or are they telling you what to do?
At bottom, what does the rhetoric bring out in YOU?

If the takeaway is that you have less worth as a person if you don't do what you're told, you're dealing with a Leftist. If you FEEL that you are deriving your sense of self worth from the appprobations of others, you are a Leftist in the making. Individuals have no place in the Leftist sphere.

Liberals and Conservatives are Individuals and allow for that in their dealings with each other.

@Terence57 Hear, hear! Well said! I hope we can save our country from both the radical left and the radical right. (Though, I think it's the left I'm more annoyed with recently.)

That echo chamber thing - yup.
I also have a whole group of people whom I started with unfollowing, but I came to the conclusion that if I was ever going to like them agin in person I needed to not know every little detail of thier SJW social signaling, and unfriended most of them. But honestly, I'm not confident right now that that will ever happen. I don't do that kind of social signaling (Not sure I do any) and I'm not longer sure I would be welcome at the various festivals I once attended.

@SelinaRif It is a hard thing to do, but if it's anything like what happened to me, you WILL feel better for it. Good luck to you!

5

It always has to be a war, one side wiping out the other. America was very fortunate in its founding fathers who held the country together and guided it through a critical time in history. They had the courage and intelligence to eventually earn the respect of our oppressors and make them our closest ally. Most revolutions don't turn out as well, the French Revolution generated 10 years of chaos before Napoleon took over, the Russian Revolution that ended in a repressive dictatorship and the same with the Chinese Revolution, the Iranian Revolution that established an Islamic state, the Venezuelan disaster.

We all have skin in the game here. Every individual, no matter what political persuasion, can look at themselves and find plenty of things we could be doing better. The way we behave, as if me as an individual, knows better than all other individuals, governments, organizations. It seems that humility is a dirty word today. Humility does not mean bowing and kneeling to others, it just means that we recognize that there is a tremendous amount we do not know and should make an effort to view things from different, reasonable perspectives. We should make the effort to respect others even when we don't agree with them.

Pand0ro Level 7 June 27, 2020

Agreed- I feel like when people argue their ideas they want to prove to the other person that that person is wrong and they are right. It’s a conversation duel rather than a partnership. I used to think in terms of dueling, like I had to get that person to believe that what I was saying was the only right answer and that they were all wrong... growing as a person has me listening more and asking more questions.

5

In all honesty, if someone deserts you because of a belief or opinion, they’re shallow or suffer cognitive dissonance. I’ve had a couple relatives unfollow me because of politics, religion or climate change. I’m fairly knowledgable on some things. They have eventually gotten over their but hurt and come to see, we can agree to disagree which eventually leads to a deeper discussion on what they were but hurt about. I was offering solutions to the reasons I felt their argument was untenable. I also had them come to understand that through discussion you can solve problems better than just regurgitating an opinion that they were relating to because it sounded good or fit their narrative. And if they go, Okay, you are free to make that choice. I won’t take offence. All good.

5

My older sister is a Democrat, she's always voted Democrat. She hates Trump and repeats all the CNN, MSNBC, ABC, talking points. Try to point out the facts and she calls it propaganda or fake news...

She lives in Olympia WA. Maybe she is getting a dose or reality after the lock-down and all the riots. Or maybe to her it's all Trumps fault. I don't know because we haven't spoken in a while.

Tycho Level 7 June 27, 2020

It's really hard to talk with someone who hates Trump passionately. I've had some progress avoiding facts and just asking them to tell you how do they know that he's someone who deserves to be hated. Here's a dialog from a paper I wrote last year:

Example dialog 1: “Trump is a racist!”

Q: Is Trump a racist?
A: Yes, of COURSE he is… he’s a white supremacist
Q: How do you know this?
A: He says terribly racists things [note: the specific answer isn’t that important]
Q: Can you give me some examples?
A: He said Mexicans are rapists (said Charlottesville neo-Nazis were good people)
Q: Ok, I hear you. How do you know he said this?
A: Everyone knows it’s obvious
Q: [if they are an ex-religious person, otherwise skip] So you take this on faith?
Q: What evidence could I give you that he’s not a racist?
A: None. [note: this is a partial win if they’re able to connect it to what religious people say!]
Q: What if I showed you evidence that the “Mexicans are rapists” (“were good people” ) statement was taken out of context? [note: don’t argue]
A: I would have to see it [note: again, a win as it instills doubt and shifts discussion to “could me reason to belief be false = false faith”]
Q: If you saw, it then you would believe differently?

@Admin ...Yeah well... Real conversations don't go that way.

@Tycho True... it's just a mindset that I try. Fortunately for me, it's pretty easy to play dumb 🙂

@Admin I've tried that tactic. Of course she uses her own to counter it, trying to convince me of the opposite. Raised voices followed by yelling tends to ensue.

4

I find that most people I know are not that well informed. I'm not sure what they care about but most are just too busy with their lives to bother with the culture war. When they are exposed to it they react more out of annoyance than something they take serious. The people I enjoy hobbies with adhere to the traditional rule that politics and religion are private matters. Most of my relatives are reluctant Trump supporters so that isn't a problem.

As someone else pointed out being retired probably significantly reduced the stress the culture war induces. Being old so induce some isolation, some of my liberal friends have already passed on and I had lost contact with many before the culture war was seriously in your face. When you are retired you can become pretty absorbed in your own interests and if they are not socially oriented your circle of friends shrink.

The culture war has mainly just reduced my interest in social engagement. The wife and dog satisfy my social instincts adequately. If it wasn't for the internet I probably wouldn't even be aware of it.

wolfhnd Level 8 June 27, 2020
4

I have many friends from all sides of politics.
Those that don't share my political beliefs I don't talk politics with, because it is a waste of my time discussing politics with them when their minds are closed and they live in tribal denial.
Most Green, ALP and Progressives I find are Tribal and as Progressives do not tolerate dissent.

3

I have lost almost all of my friends. One of my sisters is one of them. There are very few people whom I know currently that can still maintain some level of rational thought, think independently and have a sense of personal accountability. Every day it seems, more people become victims of the victimhood cult and start drinking the proverbial kool-aid as society delves into complete idiocracy. Honestly I'm pretty exhausted from it. I think I might just get a volleyball and go live on a nice deserted island somewhere. I miss the days when there was hope for Humanity.

3

If words result in the loss of a friend, maybe the friendship wasn't that stable as you thought. However, I see (especially on FakeBook), deliberate triggerings. Friends don't treat friends like that.

3

No but lost my good job

Oh man, that sucks. What happened?

@Admin I posted a meme to a private edgy meme group on FB. Someone screenshot it posted it in another group. Someone from there found my linked in page. They dog piled my ex company. I was given the command to delete by my old HR lady. Two days later I was fired. The real kicker is I told ppl that I didn’t agree with what the meme was. It was just too outlandish to not post it to that particular group.

2

I would never reject someone due to their politics. But, sadly, it has happened to me. Always stings when it is someone you were close to.

2

No regrets from me. I have no room for communist sympathizers in my life. I thought "to each their own" for the longest time, but given where things are now, there is little room for nuance: there is a right/wrong side to this conflict, and you either see it or you don't. Leftist "friends" are a huge liability and I suggest distancing yourself from them.

gadsden Level 4 June 28, 2020

" I have no room for communist sympathizers in my life. " Can't agree more.

2

You find the true person when they reveal their political ideology with you.

jakuboj Level 8 June 28, 2020
2

I lost a good friend after he emailed an anti-Israeli screed to a large group, and I refuted it with facts, replying not just to him, but the whole group. When he died a few years later, before we had a chance to reconnect, our differing views no longer seemed important. Although he was a well informed university professor, he seemed immune to facts that didn’t fit the progressive narrative.

After that experience, I try to engage, rather then refute. It’s just not worth destroying relationships over things none of us can control. Most people will cling to their worldview, even to the death. I love to express my feelings in forums like this, but I have no desire to turn my offline world into a political battleground.

I have no problem telling people where I stand, or recommending right of centre books, or poking fun at woke puritanism, but I refuse to let politics run my real life.

GeeMac Level 8 June 28, 2020

Thanks for sharing the wisdom. It's hard to separate politics from real life these days though.

@Naomimi I agree, it’s nearly impossible.

2

I lost a good friend who I had met online in a fun group a few years ago. He lives in a different state but visited every now and then. There were a few of us who had met online and we'd gather for lunch. I've never discussed politics with him personally but he saw things I've posted on FB. A few weeks ago he messaged me to tell me that my preference for that "Sky after dark filth" was really pissing him off. I said, you're not going to stop being friends because of my politics? He wouldn't respond. The next morning I discovered that I"d been blocked.

2

The solution is to split up America along cultural-racial-ideological lines.

Heritage America on one side of the line, the Rising Tide of Color on the other.

2

I haven't lost any true friends, in the purest form of the word but I have lost acquaintances at work because of it. I work in a hospital. The hospital world is heavily feminist, to the point where male staff are afraid to even express an idea for fear of being labeled "the toxic, aggressive male" in the workplace...and we all know where that leads.

FatMike Level 5 June 27, 2020

RamZ did a great send up of nurses this year. My sister in law is a RN. She was an early Bernie supporter. FB have become increasingly insufferable. I have far less patience during this time of non stop Covid, masking and BLM. It’s just too much. Gotta let em go.

2

I have indeed lost friends due to the culture war, but it sounds like my experience is different than many commenters here. In my situation, I was the "anti Trump godless liberal" who was unfriended because they could no longer associate with anyone who disagreed with them.

I am in the other side of this. I used to be a typical college liberal and then I got skeptical of the mainstream around 2015. After the '16 election I saw many Facebook connections that I made during my liberal years go the 'punch a Nazi' way and even publish weird stuff about hating random people on the street because they had a MAGA hat. I unfriended the most extreme and also did a quality control so I kept those friends I know are smarter. Coincidentally the smarter ones are the ones with lower TDS and my FB feed got less preachy after I got rid of the preachy types.

Anyway, my closer non-family relationships were with more free-minded people and those don't buy the TDS stuff, even the Bernie supporters. So I didn't lose any friend I cared about, only some loose acquaintances. I made the policy of only keeping the quality friends (even those with some TDS) and got rid of those who went mad. Because I have an orthodox religious past too I have a control with different attitudes and I saw how the conservatives had a more calm reaction (if they reacted at all) to the Orange Man phenomenon. In the last few years my conservative feed is full of new children and people living good lives vs. the liberal feed that is full of preachiness and cat pictures.

It is kind of clear to me at this point that my liberal years have come to an end even though I have not recovered my faith. I just have experienced that some ideas that religious people have are not too bad heuristically. I envy more my friends that post new babies and are living good lives in the midst of the media hysterical rage mongering, than those that recommend the latest 'you are all racists of you don't read my book' anti-racist, -fragileist book. Those liberals look to me like modern Jehova Witnesses that keep knocking on your feed with their new religious texts.

To be honest, I don't blame anyone for this problem. If there is a responsible for all this is the evangelical-woke people in media that started all of this. I remember binge watching documentaries in Netflix that are all anti corporate and that have many good things to say, but I got fed up with all the tricks they often play to capture your imagination. Weirdly enough I have to say I understand the fear YouTube has of alternative voices as the YT algorithm around 2016-17 fed me videos that completed my '-pilling', but these voices only resonated with me because I was already tired of all the nonsense. I remember thinking to myself that I wondered what new thing Vox news would discover to be racist this week, "unpack it", and "let that sink in".... all these slogans have the signature of cult behavior.

@MarcusTullius People are not arguing, they are making statements from a one-sided viewpoint. What each side presents is only those things that support their point of view, exaggerate them as much as possible and ignore any reasonable thing that might contradict them. There is a point where every political theory gets holes punched into it. From Communism to Capitalism all political theories break down and then the fudging begins. You can be sure the moment things become political you are going off track because we humans are not smart enough to create a theory that can really work.

Those on the right are more free-minded? By the character of the posts here it seems as if they are sticking to the party line. I have seen a few posts that try to recognize that they don't have all the answers but most are full of unnecessary derogatory adjectives that try to promote their point by demonizing the opposition.

Some of those on the far left are truly dangerous and criminal. The ideas of those on the not-so-far left are living in a fantasy world that is damaging parts of society with its political correctness, trying to make everyone special and accepted, which makes nobody special, blaming corporations for the evils in the world and walking on eggs so you don't hurt anyone's feelings. They also take to name calling and demonizing instead of laying out a proper case for what they believe.

The real problem is the escalation of fear caused by intractable stands from both sides. The more vitriolic the exchanges the more each side digs in in the certainty that their side is the only good side.

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