“See the way they treated the passenger? That could have been George but he was too high and too belligerent to even do such a thing.”

This.

Good view my friend. There's a real chance he was suffering a fatal overdose before he went to the ground. Meanwhile here in Michigan two blacks entered a 66 year old white woman's home and shot her in the head. It barely made the news and race was not mentioned. We all know what would happen if the colors were reversed.

@daroldbanniste We are not held to the same standard because we are pitied by liberals.

Food for thought, George Floyd was that kind of guy...literally. Robbing a pregnant woman and pistol whipping her yet we celebrate his life as a martyr in the black community when he was the exact person that was terrorizing the black community.

Hope they don’t riot faster and harder after this round of facts comes to light, but.. yea, not holding my breath.

@tonkotsu
Call me cynical... they are timing the “not guilty” verdict to happen two weeks before the election... mass riots and election null and void.

@Hanno certainly a plausible scenario

@Hanno unfortunately, you are probably correct. Phase One is the outrage over the event, Phase Two bigger outrage when a court hears all the facts ignored by the media and delivers a ruling. It’s pure performance art, meant to deliver maximum anger and destruction.

the deep state is the dirtiest

Yes, I described the death as a "killing" in the June 4th post as it I was trying to be neutral. At that time, there were many protestors who were calling it murder. I try to some extent to be agnostic on posts.

one correction - it is possible that a big man laying on his stomach >could< die from a thing called "positional asphyxia".

the video, however, clearly has GF saying "I can't breathe" while beside the car.

That's a sober assessment, very much in line w/ my own sentiments.

Do you think people in the "Black Lives Matter" movement care about facts? They don't seem to care that there is no evidence that unarmed black men are disproportionately being killed by police. Related: Are black or white ally BLM supporters more inclined to recalibrate their outrage?

@Admin no, I think they are repulsed by facts and are driven purely by emotion.

@Admin

The disconnect between the BLM narrative and the facts in the case are intentional. What they hate is civilization itself. It is cognitive terrorism of a sort designed to confuse and alienate. The people behind BLM are spiteful mutants.

@Admin I completely agree with your comment here. BLM/antifa/CPUSA/Democrats are absolutely dis-interested in FACTS. Facts about everything - crime, race, economics, culture. The entirety of their narrative is founded upon irrational and illogical emotion.
The truth of the matter as shown in this latest video release will do nothing to change the minds of the people who are the great "mob". If they were able to be swayed by facts they would not be part of the violent movement in the first place.
The only way I can see to deal with people like that is to:
A) stand back and let them rant and chant and march until they get tired and go back to their homes
B) the moment one or all begins to break the law step in with stern determination to arrest, charge and convict them...no penalty for bad behavior is implicit approval of said behavior. No?

@Andyman I think they are driven by hate and jealousy as well.

agreed

I think this is where we get 'resisting arrest' as a factor at play. IN every case that I have ever seen which is many - if the suspect did what the police told him to do he would still be alive.

@RAZE So true. I'd like to know what percentage of compliant people end up dead from an encounter with police. Has to be very, very small.

@coalburned It is insanely small and I do not remember the number - It was a lot lower than it should be based on how people act.

Well said! I have the same opinion, but you said it better than I did!

True. From the beginning of the whole incident, Floyd pulled a series of stunts to avoid being taken into custody.

"Saint George" was a Violent Druggie Felony that held a gun to the stomach of a pregnant woman, so his "Buddies" could rob her house!!!!
Does someone capable of that, really deserve to live, no matter his color????

@Serg97 Yeah, I read about his criminal background, which explains why I didn't feel his death was in a tragedy. It's not that he didn't deserve to die (I believe we all do, but that's another discussion). It's the way it happened that bothers me.

@coalburned There are "Human Animals" in this world, they come in all colors and from every county in the world!!!! If we do not deal with them, we and our loved ones will all pay the price!!!!

I’m always concerned about the decline of our society when enforcing the laws of the land includes as part of the job description even the slightest hint of a patronizing “oh, but you should have known it was a dangerous job when you applied for it”.

No. Violence of any sort is not acceptable. You make a false analogy comparing it to the military. It is a different job in so many ways that it should be obvious, first is that a military patrol, even a military police patrol, is a team heading out to do the assigned task. Street cops? Most often one person.

Let us know when any part of your job requires you accept being mistreated simply because of what you represent, not what you’re doing or who you are.

Let us know when hundreds of your colleagues are injured or killed simply by virtue of wearing a different set of clothes.

Let us know when wanting to do your job means forgoing your own personal safety to ensure the safety of others - sometimes of those who hate you for doing your job.

Let us know when every act, right or wrong, that you might do at your place of employment is subject to the most intense scrutiny by a scornful and ignorant cadre intent on ruining your career and your life because only you responded as a human being rather than an automaton.

Let us know how it’s supposed to work.

@parsifal After reading the biographies of John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin I think the idea that we must accept the enforcers of laws that encroach on our liberty with some sort of reverence is the decline of US society.

In the past 20 years the 4th Amendment has been abused like a dockside whore. We are supposed to hand over our papers, according to conservatives, when asked and just "work it out at the station".

It's a felony in Maine to catch and keep a lobster under a pound. It is a Class B misdemeanor in 30+ states to not have an up to date dog license. It's a Class B in the NW to not have a license for your rainwater barrel. It's a felony if you forget to show up for jury duty and a felony if your license expired and they catch you driving. Even if its 4 days and you just forgot. It's a misdemeanor not to wear a life vest.

Cops agree to enforce all laws against their neighbors no matter how much those laws encroach on your rights. When guns are about to be confiscated the majority of cops will come for yours. They've proven it by enforcing the dumbest of laws.

When you sign up for that, you are signing up to do whatever the state tells you is "right". Arrest abortion protesters? Sure. Arrest people protesting gun control? Sure. Arrest people protesting masks? FELONY. That is what they agree to.

You are right. It is NOT like the military. US citizens are not enemy combatants and shouldn't be treated like it just because someone suspects they might be about to commit a crime. Police should be held to a higher standard because we once upon a time decided that we would be a nation of laws, courts, and the presumption of innocence. Any banana republic can give us the type of policing you seem to want.

@ThomasinaPaine The complaints you have listed have to do with law-MAKERS not law-ENFORCERS. discretion is a limited commodity in policework...

I missed your responses to the point say I raised in my message. Please answer.

@parsifal In the Nuremberg trials the world agreed that the people who enforced the laws were just as guilty as those that made them.

Did that attitude change? Are Israelis wrong for hunting down old men who were "just doing their job"?

@ThomasinaPaine No. Were that the case there would be more than a scant twelve sentenced to death.

I missed what you do for a living...

@ThomasinaPaine
The Nuremberg trials were wrong and much study has been done since then on the liability of guards following orders etc. No court today will follow the Nuremberg processes.
The Stanford experiments for example are very interesting.

Police has to enforce the law or resign. They do not and cannot choose which laws to enforce and which ones not.

The issues you have is with the law makers and society who votes in these lawmakers.
All the stupid laws you mention were made by the very politicians you and I voted for.

Police being held to a higher standard is another issue... and you have to ask when do we start keeping our society to a higher standard?
Why is it only the people willing to do the hard work that must have higher standards, however those that just take and abuse gets to enjoy a lower standard?

@ThomasinaPaine
The Israelis did not hunt down the prison guards or police officers or soldiers.
They hunted down the architects, the decision makers, those that gave the orders.

@parsifal I don't believe "following orders" justifies cops breaking faith with the Bill of Rights or their own morals.

There is a case of an elderly lady arrested--handcuffs and the works for not putting her old dog to sleep. They tried to give her a felony animal abuse because she couldn't put him down after her husband died. It was his dog. A human being would never have arrested her.

We have a HUGE problem on our hands because we have over 150 thousand criminal violations at the federal level and as many in most states and militarized a police force and to top off that sundae with a cherry we told them that their force continuum should be loosened.

That is a recipe for disaster and good cops would speak out--in fact, many are and some have quit for these exact reasons.

@parsifal, @Hanno Begin allowed no papers about B-4 to be printed.They wrote the names on 2 sheets of paper and had everyone memorize them.

@ThomasinaPaine oh, cite one case and all are guilty? Kewl.

I’m not familiar with the old lady case - can you provide a reference?

There are a million cops in the US wh do their jobs well and with honour every single day. What about them?

@ThomasinaPaine I missed your occupation...you do have one, don’t you?

@parsifal what does occupation have to do with anything here? U going for a fallacy of argument from authority or something? People's thoughts, ideas, and beliefs stand on their own merit no matter what occupation a person works. If an expert due to occupational experience can refute an argument with logic and reason then it is valid but dismissing a position because of someones occupation is simply admitting a defeat on the argument and trying to dismiss it because there is no good rebuttal.

@george go back up and read the comments.

@parsifal No. It's not just one case. Its a pattern. Let's take police brutality --there is an entire database of wrongful homicide, police misconduct (to include selling drugs themselves), and the fact that they are human beings rather than saints.

Police should not be militarized because it sets a psychological tone that they are at war. Police should not have less restrictions on violence or discharging their weapons than our military does in a war zone.

As for my occupation this is just a ridiculous debate tactic of "if you're not a cop, hair dresser, etc" you shouldn't have an opinion on it. I am someone that pays their salary, which means I get an opinion on it.

@parsifal, @george Yeh, what George said.

@parsifal ok, I reread all the comments and still occupation has no effect on the merit of an argument. Even folks who work in field can be ignorant of certain things. Perfect example is the military. I could be a 20 yr veteran but that don't mean I know about too secret programs that I wasnt part of.

@george You mention fallacy of authority and then create your fantasy about not knowing about too (sic) programs... re GF the issue is about a fundamental control technique - basic stuff EVERY cop would know about! There is no fallacy of authority to be found. The relevance of a critic’s comment loses traction when they don’t know what they’re talking about. Like hers. And yours.

@george, @ThomasinaPaine Your argument falls apart when you look at the statistics. Police shouldn’t “be militarized”? You mean shouldn’t have access to the tools to protect themselves is what you’re saying. In 2019, 48 were killed on duty as a result of felonies committed against them. I say 48 too many. You might say not enough.

@ThomasinaPaine Don’t be shy. Bring out your statistics that show how bad things are...

@parsifal cops sign up for public service and know the risks. If they are gonna shoot first they shouldn't be cops. U can defend them all u want but if a coward signs up for it and then kills someone who don't deserve to die they deserve full prosecution. The power hungry type that just want a badge for protection are scum and the ones who defend and protect them are no better. The Portland mom's protected violent rioters thus making them violent rioters as well and there is no good cops as long as they allow the POS cops to get away with crimes. I'm not an abolish the police type but I'm not a bootlicker either.

@george easy for you to say. And tell me the last time some cop who killed someone who a) wasn’t investigated, or b) wasn’t prosecuted... I’ll wait.

What I find are the armchair quarterbacks whose biggest risk in their line of work is a paper cut seem to consider themselves experts on what a cop should or shouldn’t do when having zero insight beyond binge watching csi...

Colour me unimpressed.

@parsifal You've sent so many demands of me to provide you with what you want that I have to wonder if you're a cop because you seem accustomed to ordering people around.

I will put it to you this way: I don't have to know how to make pizza to know as a customer that I don't want mine served raw. I don't have to know how to build a car to know that I need one with wheels.

I know how I want the public servants who are paid from my tax dollars to serve--and that is NOT with less restrictions than those in combat zones.

Is it really too much to ask a public servant in the US to treat me with as much respect and decency as we treat ISIS?

@parsifal so my biggest risk is a paper cut, huh? lmao I guess your biggest risk is dementia since u are a psychic, right?

I guess since u are a man and can't get pregnant u have no position on abortion. Or u arent an accountant so u have no ideas or position when it comes to taxes. Or u don't own a gun manufacturing company so u have no position on what guns should or shouldn't be allowed. Armchair quarterback u say? Cool, I'll be am armchair quarterback as long as u want to call me that but u are totally oblivious to your own inconsistencies when u have an idea that is part of a topic that u aren't an experienced worker from that field.

U don't have to be a parent to know beating kids is wrong and u don't have to be a cop to see the problems in the police force.

@parsifal @george "Easy for you to say" doesn't disqualify the remark. My good friend is in special forces and he always tells people to shut the fuck up when they bitch about the dangers of their job. "Nobody drafted you" is his response.

We make choices in life. We need to live with the consequences both good and bad of them AND the commitments they entail us to.

My job took me to war zones. I had a gun in my face and I didn't have body armor. I don't complain to anyone because I chose that job.

Maybe I just have more balls than the cops bitching about theirs.

@ThomasinaPaine "Maybe I just have more balls than the cops bitching about theirs."

So much truth in that statement that it boggles the mind. Most of the cops ive known since childhood were the kids who got picked on or were socially backward and didn't have many friends. All I can guess is that by becoming a cop it allowed their balls to drop some but as soon as a situation gets a little outside of a textbook exchange between citizen and cop they show us just what cowards they truly are. If u don't understand that being a cop means u accept the risk of your own safety being in jeopardy to serve and protect others, then u shouldn't be a cop to begin with. The standard required to become an officer should be much higher than it is now. The low IQ "I just follow orders" types are the most prevalent types of people I see wearing a badge now days.

I've also noticed a few similarities in the people who are die hard cop supporters who will defend any cop no matter the circumstances. They seem to be just as cowardly as the cops who shoot first and just talk the talk thinking it will intimidate others and at the same time they will have protection from someone with a badge to keep them safe. I know we need a police force but at the same time I know the job of police is to SERVE and PROTECT and not this modern day version of extort and bully the citizens to turn a profit for courts and private owned prisons.

@ThomasinaPaine. I’ve found people get treated as they treat others...how does that saying go, “my personality depends on me, my attitude depends on you”?

Be nice, you get nice. Be an asshole, you get what you deserve.

@ThomasinaPaine, @george since when was I talking about you? Newsflash, you’re not that important.

Now perhaps you can quote back to me where I’ve even come close to making excuses for any dirty cop, since that is what you’re hinting at. I’ll wait. Again.

@george, @ThomasinaPaine re dangers - you brought it up. I guess you’re friends suggestion needed repeating?

@george Yep. And "Cops shouldn't have to put their lives in danger"--then go be a computer programmer.

@parsifal I believe you posted on a public forum rather than pulling him aside in direct messages. As far as treating people how they treat you, how would you treat someone who is infringing upon your liberties guaranteed in the Constitution? How would you treat someone who accused you of something you don't believe you did?

Human interaction doesn't magically change when you wear a costume.

How about if they start friendly and see where that gets them instead of treating people like criminals automatically?

Again, not talking about a dirty cop. I'm discussing the force continuum which is akin to the military's rules of engagement. I want our police to use the same escalation procedures as our military in a combat zone.

There is no WAY you can tell me that the average person in the US should be treated worse than ISIS.

@ThomasinaPaine there are a gazillion cameras in buildings, cars, and worn to monitor behaviours and the interactions between police and the public. Invariably things DO begin “friendly” as you put it. And more often than not the cop bends over backwards to avoid problems - but guess what? There’s two people involved! Surprise surprise surprise! If someone acts like an asshole and decides that he/she is not going to do as they are instructed what options are left to the cop? “Oh, sorry. Didn’t mean to bother you about that arrest warrant! You did say olley olley oxen free though so I guess I’ll let you go”...

And again - you haven’t been there? You don’t know. Period.

@parsifal Again, and I'll say this until you understand me: IT IS ABOUT PROCEDURES. The PROCEDURES are the problem.

If our local police have looser criteria for force escalation than Marines that is a problem. In fact, given the number of files in the ACLU and CopWatch database cops could do themselves a favor by using those same rules of engagement and escalation.

And before I hear "muh danger" construction workers are several times more likely to be injured or killed on a job and if "muh danger" is all we need to stop doing our job then what do we tell fire fighters?

You want to make this about anything other than procedures so you can cherry pick to make yourself happy. I'm saying that the American people should be given the same respect we show Iraqi's and Afghans.

EDIT: and quite frankly I don't give a fuck if a cop hands me flowers if he's asking me for my papers without any evidence of me committing a crime. I don't care if he's friendly. I care about my rights and dignity.

@parsifal I'm not hinting at anything and wasn't even responding to u. Dont get defensive due to your twists and context that u want to be here. Sorry but just as u assumed the paper cut thing u are assuming things again. Assumption type folks are not folks I conversate with. Once u are a psychic then u already know all my thoughts so why should I bother telling u what u already know. When u want a two way discussion I might reconsider.

@ThomasinaPaine procedures are NOT the problem. the procedures WORK a hundred thousand times a day. and guess what - asking for your papers is part of the job, to ensure that someone is licensed to drive to begin with, has insurance if the law requires it, and on and on. just because you consider yourself a hothouse orchid who has done nothing wrong, maybe - just maybe, the cop sees something different.

@ThomasinaPaine, @george this isn't you then?

george 7 replied Aug 10, 2020 edited 0
@parsifal so my biggest risk is a paper cut, huh? lmao I guess your biggest risk is dementia since u are a psychic, right?

I guess since u are a man and can't get pregnant u have no position on abortion. Or u arent an accountant so u have no ideas or position when it comes to taxes. Or u don't own a gun manufacturing company so u have no position on what guns should or shouldn't be allowed. Armchair quarterback u say? Cool, I'll be am armchair quarterback as long as u want to call me that but u are totally oblivious to your own inconsistencies when u have an idea that is part of a topic that u aren't an experienced worker from that field.

U don't have to be a parent to know beating kids is wrong and u don't have to be a cop to see the problems in the police force.

@parsifal Define "work"? Seriously. Just because I can use a credit card to unlock a door doesn't mean that a key isn't better. Americans have been so trained to accept any loss of liberty and amount of disrespect heaped upon them from the government that they will say things like "it works" to describe a situation that is intolerable to the Founder's principles of presumption of innocence and the right to be secure in your property and person.

To you "it works" because you appear to place conformity, obedience, and order above individualism, liberty, and freedom. To that I say, any nation on earth can provide you a police force that knows how to shoot someone whose hands move below their ribcage or place their knee upon someone's neck. You can go to Cuba and get that.

Forgive me if I would prefer to be policed AT LEAST in the manner the Marines used to win "hearts and minds" in a war zone -- and its sad that I would settle for that. I should want to be policed in the respectful but somewhat less secure way that the Founders intended for America.

--And don't say society was more peaceful then. There were public lynchings and tar and feathering in those days.

@ThomasinaPaine what tv program are you watching that gives you your understanding of police work? I don’t believe there is a police officer alive that goes to work hoping to be part of some crisis. In fact, I challenge you to show me, tell me, draw for me anything other than men and women doing their best to avoid a situation that will place them, their brother and sister officers, the public, and the offender at risk.

How friggin naive you are to believe differently.

@parsifal I will remark that of the two of us I have remained polite, respectful, and without insulting you. It is possible to not insult people, to listen to them, and not act aggressively. You've attempted to bait me into the same style of discussion you are using and I have managed not to respond in kind.

It is possible for a police officer to be calm, act maturely, and not be aggressive with someone who is troublesome. If they cannot there are better lines of work for their temperament. I don't think everyone is cut out to be a teacher, either.

I never said police officers go to work "hoping to be a part of some crisis". I've said that if a Marine in a combat zone can manage to not shoot people who are not shooting at them or kick the shit out of people who resist then it is possible for you to not do it. Yes, people acting like a fool will make someone who is exhausted want to kick the shit out of them. Yes, someone who asks "Why do you need to see my ID?" will irritate someone who wants to see that ID. Doesn't mean that they have to respond aggressively.

I almost fell into the trap of explaining my experience with ROEs and war zones but its unnecessary. I am telling you that 1) no one is drafted into the police force 2) we all want to protect our loved ones 3) dealing with ignorants is something we all do 4) some of us are held to a higher standard of behavior due to our level of responsibility and 5) I don't want America's police acting like 3rd world police.

Again: I WANT WHAT ANY AFGHANI RECEIVES FROM US MARINES.

I know people who left the military and went into the police force (I will try to invite one to posts on here) and he agrees with me that cops would do themselves a favor if they changed their force continuum. However, his is an opinion just like yours.

That Marines have stricter ROEs than the deputies in my county is not an opinion it is a fact. I want the same rights and respect given to terror suspects in a war zone, not less. That should be the bare minimum as the police force is not at war with America.

@ThomasinaPaine you’re not discussing anything. You’re stating an opinion hoping that somehow I will parrot the same nonsense. But around we go again - a platoon of marines on patrol in a war zone is NOT the same as a cop alone is a black and white. What part of that is beyond you? Cops do it ALONE.

@ThomasinaPaine there is no need to keep trying. Things like "How friggin naive you are to believe differently." and assumptions about people show that it's a waste of time. Anyone who can't discuss things without assumptions and personal insults like that are just snowflake who have to control the conversation because their programmed scripts don't account for everything real people actually encounter in conversations. They assert a stance then rudeness and arrogance takes over from there and no matter what u say they will divert, assume, put words in your mouth or anything at all possible to keep the conversation limited to the scope of what their script accounts for. I admire your persistence to keep trying but it is futile because all that they will allow to be discussed is the limited areas that their talking points are targeted at.

@parsifal I am stating 1 fact and 1 opinion.

Fact one, Marines have stricter rules of engagement in a conflict zone than our cops have here before they are allowed to use violence on US citizens. This is a FACT. From that FACT we can derive also that they are in an active combat zone with trained enemy combatants that are heavily armed and capable of crafting improvised explosive devices out of the bare minimum.

You are only willing to compare apples to oranges when it suits you. Be consistent. You said cops don't have a platoon's worth of Marines to drive around with. That is true. 99% of all cops also don't have to deal with trained insurgents willing to blow themselves up when God says so on the daily. A platoon of Marines are used when a situation is hot so let's do the apples to apples, please. When policing its a small fire team.

Cops do not have to deal with the normalcy of IEDs or trained insurgents. BUT let's pretend they do.

Then you still haven't explained why they need looser restrictions on violence than Marines.

Is it because Marines are better trained? And if that's the case why don't we have younger cops with stricter physical fitness standards? Why don't they have Marine Corps training if that's what is needed not to freak out on kids like Tamir Rice?

After Haditha the military tightened up its ROEs so that there wasn't a non-stop shooting match. Their willingness to put themselves at risk engendered the type of trust that allowed citizens to come to them with problems or information.

Opinion one, when you have a public relations issue you cannot ignore it by doubling down on what you did before. Public servants are supposed to SERVE. When you lose public trust to the point where people are afraid to call you when a loved one is suicidal then that is an issue that needs to be addressed.

@parsifal, @george You're right. This is old already.

@ThomasinaPaine really? What are the “rules of engagement” for the marines and how does that differ from police? State the facts.

Also fact, police deal with people who are neither identified nor identifiable as “the bad guy”. It could be the kid up the street or a grandmother who will kill them - Americans killing Americans.

Also fact, police do not have “looser” rules of engagement than marines, but YOU are going to cover that above in rules of engagement, aren’t you?

Public servants are supposed to serve? Police DO. And it costs them their lives 89 times last year. You might not appreciate that but I do - the difference between us.

, @george then plz join in stating the facts to be addressed in my message above. Instead of deflecting and skating around the issues, have a go at it...

@george Here, this is what you claim has been avoided.

Violence of any sort is not acceptable. You make a false analogy comparing it to the military. It is a different job in so many ways that it should be obvious, first is that a military patrol, even a military police patrol, is a team heading out to do the assigned task. Street cops? Most often one person.

Let us know when any part of your job requires you accept being mistreated simply because of what you represent, not what you’re doing or who you are.

Let us know when hundreds of your colleagues are injured or killed simply by virtue of wearing a different set of clothes.

Let us know when wanting to do your job means forgoing your own personal safety to ensure the safety of others - sometimes of those who hate you for doing your job.

Let us know when every act, right or wrong, that you might do at your place of employment is subject to the most intense scrutiny by a scornful and ignorant cadre intent on ruining your career and your life because only you responded as a human being rather than an automaton.

Let us know how it’s supposed to work.

Your up.

@parsifal I did not say that violence in any form is unacceptable. If someone is running at you with explosives strapped to his chest screaming GOD IS GREAT then shoot him. If someone is trying to rape you, defend yourself.

What I said and I'll repeat for the (what is it the 10th time now?) USE THE ROEs what work successfully in a combat zone to deal with both terrorists and innocent civilians. Treat us as the Marine would treat ISIS.

If you cannot even do that, treat us the way our troops treat a terrorist, then something is extremely fucked up.

@parsifal

Separating the one that I think is important in this list and why

ROEs for policing in Iraq

-Understand that not everyone acting in a strange way is a terrorist. Some may be confused.
-If you cannot PID someone as a combatant defer to your Senior

-DO NOT ENGAGE IN COMBAT WITH ANYONE WHO IS INJURED, HAS PHYSICAL IMPAIRMENT, OR HAS THEIR HANDS UP

-Do not shoot someone who is running away that did not previously discharge their weapon or act in a threatening manner
-Do not fire in civilian areas when civilians are on the street unless hostiles are actively firing upon you
-Warn first those who are holding a weapon at you or detonation device with: Ermy se' Alak if amick (drop your weapon or I will shoot) with time to complete the action
-Treat all civilians with respect in regards to their property
-Fire when be fired upon
-Fire when civilians are fired upon
-Treat everyone with dignity, honor, and respect

IF our police emphasized this Down's Syndrome man Robert Ethan Taylor would still be alive. The two off duty cops were told by his caretaker who arrived to pick him up to not put their hands on him or he would freak out and asked to be the one to take him out of the theater. The theater manager agreed. The off duty cops did not and ended up killing him.

If our police emphasized this Brian Claunch would be alive. The manager of the Elder Care Center did not want him harmed. Two cops went into the room to confront a man missing both an arm and a leg on the same side, who could not walk, and weight less than 150 lbs. They shot him in the back of the head when he raised his pen from the wheelchair. They did not believe it was a gun.

Charles Kinsey was the caregiver of an autistic man, shot in the leg for attempting to get his charge out of the street. His hands were up and he was explaining what he was doing when they shot him.

I know that as a cop you will give me a thousand reasons starting with how each of those people could have used mad ninja skills to kill the officers and I will tell you that I do not care. They should have protected all three of those people instead of killing them.

@ThomasinaPaine try to focus...you might be suffering ptsd. Seek help, please. America is not Afghanistan.

@ThomasinaPaine rules of engagement? In America? You don’t know what you’re talking about trying to compare the two. I feel sorry for you. Get help.

@parsifal I am not the one acting aggressively or insulting you over an Internet conversation. One might want to consider relaxation techniques and stepping away from the computer if you are at the point where you think insulting someone is debate. It's not. It's just being rude.

I do have PTSD. Most of my friends have been diagnosed with it, as well. What they don't have on their conscience is choking a Down's Syndrome man to death because they disregarded direction that errs on the side of life. The one person I know who did become part of the "22 a day" statistic is someone who shot a child in the first Fallujah.

The ROEs are meant to protect civilians but also the health of the Marine or soldier...and their analysts.

@parsifal You asked what the "Rules of Engagement" were. The police call it a force continuum. Again, I can see that you don't feel the need to show people who disagree with you any modicum of respect not even when they give it to you.

This is not a problem that I have. But I do have limitations. If you want to engage in debate be polite and honest. If you cannot do at least one of those then I will stop talking to you.

You see, I can control my temper and not take it out on people. I also know as an adult that the better part of valor at times is simply walking away.

@ThomasinaPaine oh, but you are. I wouldn’t say you’re psychotic, but you’re obviously an anarchist which is about the same thing... get help

@parsifal And you continue to be insulting so we are done.

@ThomasinaPaine oh so now you have an answer? Lol so how does it work - does antifa seek you out or do you have to do the legwork?

What you're suggesting is a dismantling of the US - you know, the REPUBLIC? It is a government based on the law, and so long as there’s are anarchists, fascists like antifa and blm, and left wing lunatics <ahem> law-biding citizens will need to protect themselves AND that includes having a group of trained and dedicated people protecting them. From people like you.

Get help, please.

@ThomasinaPaine hardly. being accurate in assessing you from what you've written is not being insulting. but get help. please.

actually he did sit back. look at the videos again

Howdy @WilyRickWiles,

I know I'm not @Admin, but your off topic question does elicit an off topic rejoinder.

No I've never dressed in blackface, but I did dress in drag and sing, "I Enjoy Being A Girl" (Rogers & Hammerstein, Flower Drum Song). Does that count?

Eh, voice majors do strange things...

I wore blackface in the army, it was/is called cam cream, hope this is OK?

I try really hard to NOT attack individuals, rather preferring to engage on the ideas. But, your comment shows a much deeper filth than what you seem to accuse others of.

@tracycoyle I must be one of those "real racists."

@WilyRickWiles No, I think you are just skewed in your perceptions of reality.

I played Glinda in an all white production of "The Wiz". (No blackface though)

How would you have made the post differently? I try to avoid emotion in my posts to keep them short/etc. I have a more caring personality than what some of my posts suggest. My heart does feel for the tragic death of George as human being. Watching the bodycam footage is even more heart-wrenching as it is clear that he (and his friends) are struggling in life. I am also aware that his death is a symbol.

@Admin For one, I'd ask you to think about why you selected that particular frame from the video, the one that probably best represents racist tropes about Black people. Second, the language you use to describe protesters and their positions is aggressive, unconventional, vague, and often debatable, as with "contributed to his tragic death," "polarizing violent protests," "racist killer behavior," "resisting arrest," "does this matter," and "leveraging 'proof of police racism' to incite." It betrays an anger, perhaps unconscious, at protesters. Moreover, your use of emotionally charged content devoid of an argument suggests you're looking to elicit a racist pile-on from the white nationalists you know are a large part of your community.

@WilyRickWiles I got the screen shot from the linked article. Could you rewrite it in a way you’d prefer as an example?

@Admin "I got the screen shot from the linked article." Careless and irresponsible at best.

@WilyRickWiles More just due to time. I'm juggling lots of projects including this website. Is the screenshot careless and irresponsible on the website that I link? He does look humanized in anguish to me. I guess how people respond to the image is in part related to their political views.

Dude. Seriously. Asking questions does not make you a racist.

We are supposed to ask these questions. Ask and discuss like adults. If we are going to fucking censor everything that someone might get upset about then just throw up a swastika now and put all the conservatives on trains for work camps.

Arbeit Macht Frei

@ThomasinaPaine You're canceled!

@Admin You shouldn't have to apologize for the question or the source and especially not to a guy who only drops Jacobin magazine links at me.

He's an adult. If he cannot take a question without throwing a tantrum like a baby then he needs to just haul his ass off to the Twitter echo chamber.

@Admin, @WilyRickWiles

1. The protests have BEEN polarizing. I know blacks who refuse to go to them because "those crazy white kids will get us all arrested"
2. resisting arrest is the RIGHT TERM. He was resisting arrest. Does that mean he should die for it? NO THE FUCK NO but what else do you call resisting being arrested but resisting arrest?

There are people I know who didn't resist arrest, didn't hear the cops, and got the shit beat out of them by cops. I wouldn't call that resisting arrest. George Floyd resisted arrest.

I am the first person to say cops are out of line. I am even anti-cop. I never said they shouldn't defund police. Look through all my posts. I've been on the side of the people getting abused but calling him out for those things is just being a brat. It is. It really fucking is and if you cannot see that you are being nitpicky and accusatory--if you think that's how you should talk to people then you need to reevaluate. It seems all you see are demons and angels. No people.

@WilyRickWiles You're being mean and you know it. You are better than this. I actually believe that.

Be kind. You never know if the last thing you say to someone is the last thing they hear.

@ThomasinaPaine Professional culture warriors are not acting in good faith. That's where I draw the line on being charitable.

@ThomasinaPaine Not a Jacobin-chauvinist kind of leftist btw. I think I linked to two articles of theirs, among many others. I link to them when they're good and insightful, e.g. on history, which happens occasionally.

@WilyRickWiles I don't see ADMIN as a culture warrior or a racist. Mr. "Feral Blacks" up there, yes.

@ThomasinaPaine Say what you will about "Mr. 'Feral Blacks'," and there is plenty to say, but he is operating in good faith!

@WilyRickWiles I believe that of ADMIN. I see nothing inflammatory in the question. It ought to be asked. It ought to spark discussion--something I'm trying to have. I've said this to conservatives and to liberals--when you use a particular case to start a much-needed dialogue it ought to be clean and clear either way so that the goal is not obfuscated. Michael Brown, for example, as not as clear cut as the Tamir Rice case or John Crawford the III OR better yet the Saylor case.

Two cops choking a Downs Syndrome man to death WOULD have gotten national attention on police brutality and then to follow that up with John Crawford would have made a better example for white America to then understand.

BTW, Mr Feral Black is operating, not sure if its in good faith tho.

@ThomasinaPaine I'm not about that respectability politics or trying to police movements. Human rights are fundamental.

I disagree that the question was "clean and clear." It certainly was not objective. It uncritically reused a racist photo from a "blue lives matter" website and included implicit negative judgments about the victim and BLM and positive judgments about the officers. Yes, one sometimes needs to be controversial to get people's attention and prompt a debate, but they should understand and be honest about their own point of view.

@WilyRickWiles Human rights are non existent where governments are involved. Any government will restrict your natural rights because their only tool is force.

@ThomasinaPaine Of course in a nation of laws with elections, that force is abstracted and democratized, albeit imperfectly. Which is more than you can say would be the case if the state's monopoly of force were formally split among the powerful interests of the status quo.

@ThomasinaPaine i'm seeing a pattern here...you have great difficulty with anyone who disagrees with you. it's THEM, not YOU.

get help.

@parsifal I'm not the one who decided to proudly proclaim "Mr Feral Black". He named himself, not me. If you proudly espouse that Jews are conspiring against humanity and blacks have gone wild like cats don't be surprised when people think you have a race problem.

If you are proud of your words don't be less than proud and deny them.

@ThomasinaPaine uh... mr feral black? Jews are conspiring? Blacks gone wild?

Either 1) you’re replying to the wrong person, or 2) you’re insane.

I choose the former and accept your apology

@parsifal The post you tagged me into between Wiley and I was a discussion of conservatives where he said that a self-appointed "Race Realist" was more honest than other conservatives. It had started with him berating ADMIN but those don't seem to still be visible.

But I find it interesting that after being so rude and aggressive over someone disagreeing you have to feel better by trying to find an instance of me being unprovokedly aggressive or belligerent.

A rational approach to debate is not to insult but persuade and when you create a challenge of someone to provide ROEs and that challenge is met then show them the respect of an honest reply.

You ought to have just had a discussion based upon the challenge you created. Instead you chose to act like you didn't ask for that try to deflect from your earlier question by once again being aggressive and name calling.

Maybe try not insulting people, asking questions from a genuine sense of curiosity rather than asking them to perform like a circus poodle and then pretending you didn't want that information anyway.

Maybe you ought to answer why you think cops couldn't use at least one of the military's advisories and not choke out people who have a physical and mental handicap and not shoot double amputees in the back of the head for holding an ink pen.

@ThomasinaPaine you addressed a message directly to me that had nothing whatsoever to do with anything I had written.

Maybe you should learn to differentiate between one person’s statements and those of another before setting off on your tirade?

Otherwise you only look foolish.

Again.

it does seem such a coincidence, doesn't it?

That doesn't make him a racist though.

They would have found some other excuse.

@wolfhnd Sure but it would have been another cop, another day. Giving them military surplus, loosening the force continuum, and expanding their powers is the powder keg.

@ThomasinaPaine

"Close to two-thirds, 61 percent, of black Americans said they want the police presence in their area to remain the same, while 20 percent said they would like to see police spend more time in their neighborhood, according to a new Gallup poll. Another 19 percent said they would like to see the police presence in their area decrease."

[news.yahoo.com]

If you want social workers instead of exmilitary as police officers you are going to have to pay them a lot more, even then they will probably quit after a couple years of exposure to the tragedy that is the welfare state.

@wolfhnd This is a fallacious argument trying to force me into some binary dichotomy of jackboot or social worker.

I am saying make our police use the Marines ROIs in a combat zone for how they deal with Americans rather than the current force continuum. You would see a drastic decrease in violence on both sides.

@ThomasinaPaine

The violence is primarily criminals killing criminals. Don't see that it makes much difference how the police behave unless they go back to something like "broken windows" which of course is questionably constitutional.

I'm not trying to force you in to any position. All I'm saying is if the police do the parenting (social work) that people are unwilling or unable to provide for their own children that may help a bit. The problem is that that kind of system is going to be extremely expensive if you hire the right kind of people.

@wolfhnd I'm not asking police to parent anyone. I am asking that they use Marine ROIs. Does no one on the right see a problem that We the People aren't even given the respect that our military gives to the Afghans and ISIS?

@ThomasinaPaine

I'm not on the right and where were liberals when mostly people on the right objected to the patriot act, Obama weaponizing the IRS and intelligence services, when Trump lowered minority unemployment, when Trump tried to fix the broken educational system.

I have my own problems with the "right but at the moment the failure of the left to acknowledge that crime has been driven by the welfare state's women marrying the government, policies that destroyed job opportunities, a disastrous educational system, etc. is a larger problem.

@wolfhnd I don't disagree. Anyone who believes that Johnson--a man known for his liberal use of the N-word was trying to HELP blacks with the welfare program is a fucking idiot. He wanted them segregated and kept on the teat so he had a legacy of Democratic voters.

It's obvious in how welfare was not given to those who had 2 parents in the household. They wanted to create a permanent lower class of blacks AND whites so that they could keep themselves in office. It was a small price to pay for them. A drop in the bucket.

I don't believe in Santa or good politicians. Republican. Democrat. They all go to the same parties on weekends. It's the idiots who don't live in DC that believe these people actually give a shit.

@wolfhnd the Patriot Act was bipartisan and continues to be bipartisan every time funding is voted on to keep it going. Both parties have worked together to make this mess of a society we live in now. From trade deals to tax breaks to government bailouts, both parties have done nothing but look out for the donor class since citizens united was written in to law. Both parties act out their characters for the camera then go behind the public eye and make sure certain interests always get taken care of no matter how the votes of the politicians have to be manipulated for each politicians best interests at the time. For example, democrats and repubs that are in the ballot get to vote for what voters will want while the ones not up for reelection vote for the donor class thus always making sure the donors are happy and the incumbent can act like they were trying to help while the others are the problem.

@ThomasinaPaine always the victim....when will you stop playing that card and actually concern yourself with what happened?