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Is there any truth in Qanon or the "deep state"?

It's human nature to see patterns. From faces in clouds to stock market charts, the human brain likes to prioritize affirming data and disregard opposing data. A famous 1948 experiment shows that even pigeons quickly learn to see patterns.

While this process might be fueling the Left belief in "systematic oppression/racism", for the purpose of today's topic, let's focus on the belief in Qanon and the "deep state". According to Left leaning "The Guardian",

“QAnon is a baseless internet conspiracy theory whose followers believe that a cabal of Satan-worshipping Democrats, Hollywood celebrities and billionaires runs the world while engaging in pedophilia, human trafficking and the harvesting of a supposedly life-extending chemical from the blood of abused children. QAnon followers believe that Donald Trump is waging a secret battle against this cabal and its “deep state” collaborators to expose the malefactors and send them all to Guantánamo Bay."

What are your thoughts?

Note: please be aware that I accidentally made a misleading poll question by saying "any truth" and including two different things that could be truthful. A vote "Yes" could mean different things - read comments for clarification.

Is there any truth in Qanon or the "deep state"?

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It’s total bullshit; The Guardian’s take on it, that is.

To be clear: the propaganda arm of the Democratic Party, otherwise known as the media/political complex, characterizes as conspiracy the “theory” that members of the Obama administration plotted to insure Hillary’s election, and, when that failed, worked through the use of their agents who remained in place after Obama left office to obstruct the transfer of power to Donald Trump and manufacture numerous hoaxes to prevent him from governing and, ultimately, remove him from office. That’s a ”conspiracy theory.” They’ve stopped using the word “debunked,” but they treat the topic as though it has already been explained and disposed of.

So let’s get precise when accusations of conspiracies and their accompanying theorists are under discussion. Since the JFK Assassination, every major incident that has taken place has had an “official narrative“ attached to it, one that leaves unanswered myriad obvious questions. Rather than attempt to answer them, they attack the motives and the intelligence of those who still ask for answers. This pattern is so predictable, that to mention it most likely qualifies as a conspiracy theory in its own right.

So. Q.

I’ve watched the phenomenon from a distance, interested, but by no means an acolyte. Whoever, or whatever Q may be, they reveal their presence through cryptic posts that remind me of Nostradamus’s prognostications: detailed enough to call attention to themselves, abstract enough to avoid being pinned down. In fact, the only actual prediction has been “Nothing can stop what’s coming.” Everything else is hints, suggestions and dots to be connected. “Breadcrumbs,” in the parlance of the Anons, the ones who truly are acolytes, who dissect, cross reference and interpret each new posting. These are the Qanons The Guardian so inaccurately refers to.

The vast bulk of information alluded to by Q, and dubbed “deep state conspiracy,” has by now been verified and documented over and over again. Call it Deep State, call it Our Gang, call it Mike and the Mechanics, call it Fred: they have been working overtime to destroy Trump, and they have been willing to destroy The Constitution to accomplish their goal. This is beyond dispute. The conspiracy was the one seeking to destroy Trump. The alleged theorists turned out to be conspiracy researchers. And damned accurate, too.

The Guardian says the Qanons believe Trump is waging a secret war against the Deep State. Wow, there’s a reach. How secret? Can you say AG Bill Barr and John Durham?

As for the rest? Pedophiles? Satanism? Human Trafficking? Gosh, does that mean we shouldn’t ask questions about things like John Podesta’s emails (have you actually read them?); about the Clinton Foundation and connections to Laura Silsby and Haiti; about Tony Podesta’s art collection? Or Marina Abramović? Or Seth Rich?

Ok, probably there are logical explanations behind all these topics. Most likely none of it means anything. But then, it must be asked, why aren’t those innocuous answers forthcoming. Why, instead, the vilification of those daring to point out glaring holes in the “official narratives,” and the effort to silence them through ridicule.

Come to think of it, why is “pizza” mentioned so often in John Pidesta’s emails?

I would say that all of this [DS] treason pre-dates President Abraham Lincoln. Edward M. Stanton personified the Deep State and the cover-up of Lincoln's assassination. Stanton was actually one of the co-conspirators that should have hanged , yet like Comey, McCabe, Mueller and Strzok, he was the one investigating the assassination and let the real John Wilkes Booth go free.

The [DS] of the day and Stanton, were opposed to Lincoln's conciliatory tone and they wanted to punish the south and after Lincoln's assassination took over the "Reconstruction" of the South and turned it all to shit, and we are all still suffering the effects of it today in a myriad of ways that we don't even realize.

Well the quote
"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."
is IMHO very helpful to at least find out who rules over us...independent of Qanon 😉.

Someone wrote at quora:
Nelson Yum
lives in Hong Kong
Answered June 28, 2018 · Author has 61 answers and 57.8K answer views

Nowadays there are clearly some groups of people you cannot criticize.

If you try to do that on a Facebook post, Tweet, or a YouTube video, it will most likely to be removed and/or have your account suspended.


Liberals, the Left, the “free” media
Islam, Muslims, the Quran
Jews, Soros, the Rothschilds
Putin (in Russia)

On the contrary, these groups are the most criticised and ridiculed, continuously, and cannot be stopped:

Republicans, Trump, conservatives
Christianity, the Bible
Western civilization, freedom, free speech

Change my mind.

What this guy did not say is that criticizing most of these groups and topics is just punished "second class" or "by proxy", aka criticizing most of these groups does not necessarily get you "totally destroyed" socially (except perhaps in Russia if you criticize Putin), it depends on your status in society and your role in it and the context etc..

If you want to get TOTALLY socially destroyed "first class style", no matter how "big" you are in society (you will definitely be toppled no matter how "big" you think you are), we all know exactly whom you are not allowed to criticize.

The funniest thing is that everyone seems to magically know this, but people won't talk about it. Big surprise 😉

But they all magically adhere to this "nogo" 😀😀😀

They are very well programmed!

Most people also know exactly whom they are allowed to criticize and that criticizing the allowed groups etc. furthers their career etc., and thats what they do. They arent dumb (at least not SO dumb) - they are just pieces of sh*t!

So the average person is sht - I guess thats nothing new - and I think one could call the mentioned facts "the fresh wind of sht" which is blowing through our society and goes everywhere. Hannah Arendt called it "the banality of evil".

So the average person deserves exactly these rulers, as they themselves arent any better than the so called "elite".

So, thats at least something we know for sure.

Just my 2 cents.


I don't like the way you entangle two different questions into your poll question. Separate "Q" from "Deep State" then you have two poll questions that can be answered.
Q does not exist - Deep State definitely exists. However, you have defined "deep state" as a cabal of super powerful people who are drinking blood of abused children...WTH! where does that nonsense come from? The absurdity of it - well - not even worthy to be discussed.
The deep state is the thousands of demagogues, bureaucrats who are deeply embedded in our Gov't and who skew Gov't operations into a direction informed by Socialist Agenda. There will NEVER be any indictments - much less convictions of the men and women in the Justice Dept and other Gov't agencies who tried to pull off a coup'd etat against the Trump administration. This is the most obvious example of the existence of the "deep state".
Bad enough they really did try to overthrow the Executive Branch but they are so many and so deeply embedded that they really can never be held accountable for their sedition. Sedition is a very serious crime but the "deep state" will never be brought to justice nor will they ever be fully exposed.
Drinking Blood of children...ohhh please - no one with more than 2 brain cells to rub together believes that nonsense.

iThink Level 9 Aug 26, 2020

Not exactly drinking blood of children but they are using and abusing Adrenochome. Look it up.

I basically agree with your assessment, and I definitely think these should have been two separate questions.

Agree that I accidentally skewed the poll by both including "deep state" and "any". The positive of that is most of the comments here show that our members are able to pick up on that. Thanks!



For conspiracy theorists, adrenochrome represents a mystical psychedelic favored by the global elites for drug-crazed satanic rites, derived from torturing children to harvest their oxidized hormonal fear—a kind of real-life staging of the Pixar movie Monsters, Inc. “QAnon also likes to say that Monsters, Inc. is Hollywood telling on itself,” says QAnon researcher Mike Rains, “because the plot of scaring kids to get energy is what they really do.”

There is literally no one out there claiming to have actually taken adrenochrome (oxidized epinephrine/adrenaline), or seen anyone procure it from a child's pineal gland (or pituitary gland, or, in rare cases, the adrenal glands, which actually produce adrenaline, depending on who you are asking). Someone just tossed the idea out there that celebrities were taking it to get high and/or immortal and some other people said "Oh, for sure, that definitely sounds like a plausible thing that could happen!"

The highest-profile adrenochrome incident took place in 2018, when Google CEO Sundar Pichai was questioned by the House Judiciary Committee about a conspiracy called “Frazzledrip.” (“Heard of Frazzledrip?” reads one comment on The Sisters of Mercy song.) The crackpot theory involved a mythical video, supposedly squirreled away on Anthony Weiner’s laptop, that if leaked, would show Hillary Clinton and her one-time aide Huma Abedin performing a satanic sacrifice in which they slurped a child’s blood while wearing masks carved from the skin of her face.

It's basically working the way Scientology works. They leave the crazy Xenu shit for the end. By the time people get to "Anthony Weiner had a file on his computer called that was a video of Hillary Clinton and Huma Abedin skinning a child's face and then wearing it like a Halloween mask," they're not going to take the time to look up the fact that .rip files are audio-only.

Ancient people drank the blood of their enemies. Jesus offered his blood during the last supper. Go on YouTube and look up "real life vampires". There are idiots out there doing it even though you can catch all sorts of diseases from it.

Just because you cannot imagine it doesn't mean it's not true. I cannot imagine raping a child and yet sick fucks do it all the time.

EDIT: I just remembered how Ted Bundy helped the FBI catch other serial killers. Apparently fucking dead bodies is a thing among the deranged as well as eating body parts of those people.

As you are not a pedophile and don't think like one I wouldn't unequivocally state that its impossible that they do this type of thing.

I do not think that pedophilia, or groups of pedophiles, is impossible - just look at the Catholic Church. I do not think that cannibalism, child murder, or groups of plutocrats pulling strings behind the scenes is impossible by any stretch of the imagination... in fact I think it is downright plausible.

The Q conspiracies take it to a whole other level, though. The period of "Satanic Panic" in the 70s 80s and 90s is well documented, with plenty of frauds making claims of "recovered memories" which were just pulled from popular movies and books of the time, and accusations of ritual abuse and trafficking falling away due to utter lack of evidence. It's not a stretch to believe this is just another case of "Satanic Panic" as people love to use the convenient scapegoat of "Satanism" to make baseless accusations... even though, as I already said, the Catholic Church has participated in more child molestation than Satanists ever have.

The claims just defy logic. Why go through the trouble of harvesting organs for a chemical which is available to buy, and has no evidence of any age-defying properties? Why are all specific claims easily disproved, and excused away as "willful misinformation" - I can make any claim I want, and then just claim it was intentionally wrong for some grand long game, does that mean you should follow my every word? I am a Satanist, so I can think like one - all modern Satanism explicitly prohibits harm towards children as a central tenet, so again the scapegoat just doesn't work.

And even with all of that I could even see a modicum of truth. But once you start using it to claim Trump is infallible, that anything even remotely negative about him is just some psy-op with hidden clues, that he is a mastermind several steps ahead of everyone and playing 148-dimensional chess, that he is a noble god-warrior who is on a crusade to combat pedophiles when he himself is most likely one... there you've lost me.

@ThomasinaPaine Transubstantiation happens in every Catholic church regularly. Modern day cannibals and vampires if they are to be believed.

@maxmaccc Yes. Every religion practices a form of blood magic, as I've said. Why do you think so many people do it?

As 15 year old girl, after a night of Bloody Mary with friends, I participated in a ritual "for fun" that ended up with pricked fingers, a wax doll, slips of bunt wishes. 15 years later a man with dark, curly black hair, green eyes, who writes poetry but also went to war ("warrior poet🙂 bumped into me on a staircase.

"Don't I know you?" says the warrior poet with the green eyes and dark curly black hair

5 hours later

"Something told me to take the staircase and here you are."

A few Facebook searches and I find my impromptu coven online all the little burnt slips of paper came true.

Probably a coincidence but with enough of them people do start to believe.

@Starlight adrenochrome is a chemical compound produced by the oxidation of adrenaline. Studies in the 50s and 60s reported that adrenochrome triggered psychotic reactions such as thought disorder and derealization. Researchers claimed that adrenochrome may play a role in schizophrenia and other mental illnesses. Nowhere in any research does adrenochrome provide age-combating properties.

  • In his 1954 book The Doors of Perception, Aldous Huxley mentioned the discovery and the alleged effects of adrenochrome which he likened to the symptoms of mescaline intoxication, although he had never consumed it.
  • Anthony Burgess mentions adrenochrome at the beginning of his 1962 novel A Clockwork Orange. The protagonist and his friends are drinking drug-laced milk.
  • Hunter S. Thompson mentioned adrenochrome in his 1971 book Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. This is probably the origin of current myths surrounding this compound, because a character states that "There’s only one source for this stuff... the adrenaline glands from a living human body. It’s no good if you get it out of a corpse."
  • The harvesting of an adrenal gland from a live victim to obtain adrenochrome for drug abuse is a plot feature in the first episode of the television series Lewis (2008).

In the 1980 book Michelle Remembers, Michelle Smith and Lawrence Pazder made claims of recovered memories which were essentially pulled from movies like The Exorcist.

It's Occam's Razor. What is more likely, that there is a video of Hillary Clinton cutting off and eating a child's face (in what is told to be a .rip file, which is audio only), or that a lunatic fringe is pulling stories from popular culture to try and discredit Liberal / Democrats to support Trump?

Just because some people haven't heard of it before means we should be devoting a ton of time and effort into investigating any wild claim made by people on 4Chan? These kinds of claims can be dangerous, as the completely meritless "Pizzagate" conspiracy led a man to enter the D.C. restaurant and open fire. Every baseless wild goose chase pulls away time and resources devoted to combating real cases of sexual abuse and human trafficking.

@JacksonNought Thank you for bringing this out, and I did read it.

@JacksonNought Did you have a point?


I agree with @iThink but differ on one minor point: blood sacrifices....yea, no. Pedophilia, OH YEA. Lots. Lots of "sexual misconduct' amongst those that think they are impervious to censure. But there is most assuredly a "deep state" in that there are people of similar ideology working together to subvert both Trump and the United States as we know it.....because they think THEY know how to 'save us'.

I completely agree w/you here

Pedophilia and human trafficking has been so rampant, where are these people as they get older? I mean, we see interviews with the rescued & survivors, but they seem to be few in numbers by comparison.

What happens to these stolen individuals as the age? When they get older, do they stay or they dead?
Are they being killed off because they "know things" about someone? Or are they being sent to research camps?


Qanon= Far-fetched. Possible psy-op (and possibly BY the "deep state" ). Relatively new. No real evidence.

The "Deep State"/"Illuminati"/"The Cabal"= Undoubtedly real. Currently playing hardball manipulation using both parties and division tactics. Abundant amount of evidence throughout the years.

DeadDog Level 4 Aug 26, 2020

It's not far fetched at all. Way I read it, almost all of Q's predictions have come to pass. Somethings spun out of everyone's control and did not go down as expected, but they were headed that direction.

It's a war. Not every prediction of victory in each battle in the greater war is always gonna go your way. Some times they do sink your battle ship, or a Jeff Sessions gets fired. OK. Next front, new battle.


I haven't followed Q, nor much of what's been published by followers, but it's been clear to me for decades that something like a hive-mind exists within the various ruling and culturally influential institutions. The "deep state" is as real as social status, old boy networks, terror cells, etc.

govols Level 8 Aug 26, 2020

A "hive mind" could be the emergent behavior of coordinated social (network) groups. That is, there is never a overall plan but the group, by reaffirming the beliefs of others, settle on a set of ideas. I am deeply concerned that all isolated groups radicalize and think of themselves as "right".


It's something like network dynamics akin to the invisible hand of "capitalism." I don't have the knowledge to express the vague ideas that I have, but "capitalism" itself seems to have developed a collective intelligence that one poster here associates with a term "swarm intelligence." I feel like the concepts apply to ideas every bit as much to products...

Some sort of elite underground society, like Masons or Skull & Bones, is definitely plausible. I have no doubts that rich elites control politics and shape society. Where I see the Q claims as absolutely ridiculous is when it comes to "Satanic pedophile cannibals" - a well known bogeyman to use as a scapegoat when you have no actual facts to base off of. There is absolutely no evidence, and "do your own research" is an easy out to shift the burden of proof. To think Trump is some secret warrior trying to combat the elite, and not actually a member himself, is completely ludicrous.

@JacksonNought Then you seriously need to read the book "The Creature from Jykll Island" then.

As this is exactly how we got the Federal Reserve Outlaw Banking System in the US, elite underground society of rich people working in secret.

Actually President Trump and his father Fred Trump before him were always outcasts among the gentrified moneyed elites and their A-Lister pals in NYC. They wanted in the club but were shunned because they had not earned their money the old fashioned way, i.e., they had not inherited it, but had instead earned it though labor.

So no, President Trump is not a member of Skull and Bones like the Bush family and John Kerry. He's not a member of the CFR like Hitlery Clinton and Dick Cheney . He's not Catholic so not a member of the Free Masons or any other Catholic secret organization like Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts who is a member of the Knights of Malta. And the Knights of Malta are one of those true [DS] organizations like JANIS.

I'd also recommend reading the book "Behold a Pale Horse" by William Cooper. It goes into detail on various groups like the Kights, Skull & Bones, JANIS and others I can't remember at the moment.

@Admin there is no escaping the reality that in this debate someone is right and someone is wrong. There is no middle ground where imposition of oppressive one centralized authority is eminent. Either you like your liberty and are willing to defend it or you are not. To me the choice is obvious - I love my liberty. I would stand a post and fight to defend it if I knew where when and how to show up and who to point my weapons at.

@iThink I think it is that one side is more right and the other is more wrong but both sides have moved away from the middle ground that includes compromise.

@Admin I am saying there is no middle ground there to be negotiated. The left as it exists today - here in USA especially wants nothing less than complete capitulation. They simply demand all gov't authority be turned over to them.
If you find someone who looks like a moderate leftist today - please let us know.

@Rosary_Trace I never said that they were .


Seeing faces in clouds,rocks,trees e.t.c is called pareidolia. Prioritising affirming data and disregarding opposing data is cognitive dissonance, two very different things.
The later applies to all side of political debate because we all take sides and we all like to think our side is right. The thing is, our side can't be right all of the time and that's where cognitive dissonance plays a part. The QAnon conspiracy theory has so many variables that have to be real for the conspiracy to hold water, that Satan is real, that a life-extending chemical exists in abused children is real and that Donald Trump is in a battle against this Cabal. All those factors mentioned are a bit far fetched to say the least.
This is not to say that a "Deep State" does not exist, but that it exists without the mumbo jumbo attached to it by QAnon.

Thanks for clarifying the terms. 🙂

Question: if believers don't believe in an entity why perform a ritual? We do have evidence of our politicians engaging in rituals to the point of wearing different clothing for them (this is even in their adult years).

An example, why would a man wear a taqiya' and kneel upon a mat multiple times of day in prayer if he do not believe in Allah?

There can be only a few possibilities: 1) to fool people into thinking you are a believer--and then you must question the motives, ie "why would that be important to you?" 2) hedging your bets in case there is a God--and then you have to wonder why they would continue this type of groveling without some indication of the potential of the deity 3) you enjoy others witnessing you grovel, or 4) you believe.

@ThomasinaPaine A person praying several times a day because of all the possible reasons you mention are true. The motives vary, depending on personal circumstances, for instance...If you live in a country where Islam is the dominant religion, you may pray because you are a genuine believer or because if you refuse to pray and declare your Atheism, it could cost you your life. If you are a woman in that society, you have no choice but to follow Islam, also on pain of death or at least a beating from male members society. There is also Pascals wager you mention in motive #2. All the reasons for praying, attending Mosque, church or publically displaying your faith, for the reasons you list can be true and applied to multiple faiths. The motives for doing so can vary greatly because the consequences for not complying can also vary greatly ranging from shunning and ostracising in some Christian sects to death as in some Islamic countries. It really does depend on personal circumstances.


Tomorrow the former NSA director will be on Reddit doing another AMA. Apparently, his prior AMA was archived (see pic) because he stated that they reported to the Director of the CIA that Russia could not have hacked our election and demonstrated the footprint of Gucifer and they shelved it. Three years of tax payer dollars wasted over something our own intelligence officers said was garbage. Now, Nancy the Cryptkeeper Pelosie is back to Russia's gonna involve themselves again even after she read the intelligence reports herself.

Reddit censored this (see below). If you want to ask him anything show up to Reddit tomorrow before they ghost that, too.

What is an AMA? "Ask me anything"?


I voted no, but the question was muddled by including "or the "deep state"". #QAnon is bullshit, but there's something to be said for believing in the existence of a #DeepState, defined as "a type of governance made up of networks of power operating independently of a state's political leadership in pursuit of their own agenda and goals." It might not exist as an organized cabal, like the #Illuminati or something, but there are definitely networks of power that act independently of the rule of law in a supra-government fashion.


The problem with the deep state is that it’s become a conspiracy theory, and as with any concept based on flimsy speculation, attention is diverted from investigation and evidence, towards circular arguments of who does and doesn’t buy-in.

Conspiracy thinking is medieval, and anti-empirical. It’s romantic, rather than reasonable. It gives opponents an easy out, allowing them to dismiss the idea with a laugh.

By all means make reasonable accusations, investigate, and build a case; but avoid constructing a grand meta-narrative based on speculation. It’s a self-defeating waste of time.

GeeMac Level 8 Aug 26, 2020

That's such an unfair and generic statement. What many of them do isn't anti-empirical. MK Ultra was not the provenance of conspiracy theorists. In fact no one knew about it at all until a human being grew a conscience and smuggled documents out. It was then put in front of the Congress and testimonies were taken ONLY on those documents that were not in the active process of being shredded. Can you imagine what was shredded?

There is way too much secrecy, as people like Snowden have pointed out and way too much power given to those in authority. This is not a conspiracy theory. This is fact.

We're past the age of "the government is hiding Bigfoot" and smack dab in the actual evidence of our politicians and paid employees of intelligence agencies partying on a private island with underage girls and boys. What do you call it when everyone who attempts to investigate and/or submit testimony dies of robbery or suicide?

At a certain point it's not a shame on them but a shame on us for participating in a system with our eyes closed.

@ThomasinaPaine I agree totally. My point is not that the deep state doesn’t exist. It’s the wild speculation and baseless extrapolation that usually accompanies — and destroys — any discussion of it.

I love your comment about the government hiding Bigfoot. 😂😂😂. Many people, however, don’t see that as a joke. They’re the ones who actually hamper progress exposing the deep state.


The guardian is a communist rag.

Qanon is supposed to be Donald Trump or someone close to him dishing out cryptic messages on the chans. It's a LARP and Trump isn't sending anyone to gitmo. If it wasn't a LARP they could make straightforward predictions that don't have to be interpreted like the da vinci code.

Deep state is real. It's a bunch of financial interests and bureaucrats scheming to fuck us by abusing state power. How preposterous is that? It's not. Anything else is preposterous.

Of course powerful people have slaves and fuck kids. Do you think all the shit that's been going on for thousands of years ended just because it's not socially acceptable among commoners in a few countries in the west? What have we been talking about Epstein for? These people are above the law.

Also most of the people ruling over us at the highest levels are jews and judaism is a pedophilic rape cult.

The world is a dark, horrific place full of crime, abuse slavery, violence and nightmares of every kind. People are clever apes and rape is their nature. We fight this nature with civilization but it's an endless battle and when people lose accountability they become animals once more.

admin: I removed the image included with this post as it possibly was a pixelated version of minors. Please refrain from posting any such content here as we are required by law to report. I recently listened to Sam Harris's podcast which he talks with an expert about the growing trade in exploited kids. I strongly suggest people check it out: []


I voted yes because of how you phrased the question. Is there ANY truth to Q OR the "Deep State" Like most things that people believe in, there is some truth and "The Deep State" is just the un elected branch of government. It does not require any digging its apparent in plain sight.

lovgop6 Level 3 Aug 27, 2020

Like a lot of the most deceptive things people say/ask, this question relies upon some lies piled in with some truth in order to discredit the truth. It is a carefully crafted web of deception. You did well to recognize it and call it out!

@Daveclark5 Also, I did comment below of my error in the formulation of the poll. Fortunately, it had a silver lining in prompting comments of clarification. Thanks!


We love to be thrilled by the safe terror of scary movies, rollercoasters, and conspiracy theories.


Both are products of the human imagination, oversimplified solutions to the human condition, driven by irrational passion and instant solutions that don't require too much thought, perpetrated by those who have forever lost the capacity to reason and who hate life because they have lost their humanity. Life is unpredictable and complex. It doesn't adhere to simple solutions and it frightens them. It requires thought, commitment and conviction. They believe in these things because they are afraid of life. Death is the predicable outcome. Those who are attracted to these ideas are so because they contemplate death, not life. They revile in the certainty of death, because they can't stand the uncertainty of life.

TyKC Level 7 Aug 27, 2020

Yes, of course. The deep state exists. The intelligence agencies of every country run the show because they have dirt on everyone. They also have access to high tech and law enforcement. When they are caught doing things like MK Ultra or Iran Contra, instead of removing the agencies charter they get more money. Why? They have the goods on people. The only people who say they don't believe are people who are too afraid to say it out loud. It's a terrible thing to believe.

Now, is Q Anon against the deep state or in the deep state...that is the question.

Those government workers or former workers who are on this website know exactly what I'm talking about. There is NO WAY that someone who is spilling TS bullshit whose last name isn't Clinton is getting away with it. They will be found and arrested. UNLESS it is someone IN the deep state working with others in the deep state to rouse people on the "right" against people on the "left" for a Red/Blue, aka Purple Revolution like that of the Ukraine.

Having worked for the government and having friends still in I can nod and say that as much as 25% of what is said is true.

25% is not nearly enough to convince me this is some Do Gooder that's "on our side".

If there is a growing belief that government is corrupt, how to change this? Seems like no matter what leaders do, the naysayers use it as "proof" of corruption. 😟

@Admin The government is corrupt. In the 1960s --and this is stuff we KNOW not a conspiracy--our government gave people LSD without their knowledge, they allowed black men in the 30s to unknowingly participate in an STD study when there was treatment that could save their lives, the US Army in the 70s dropped chemical weapons over a black neighborhood in St Louis, in the 80s the CIA traded drugs and arms in Columbia and Iran, in the 90s we propped up the Taliban in Afghanistan to help fight the Soviets knowing what it would do to women, in the 90s the government got in trouble again for trying to use mind control on women in foster care (although they did get a settlement from that of less than a million dollars), in the 00s there was "yellowcake", in the 10's there was warrantless spying on civilians...

That's just off the top of my head. When the nature of government is force, when their is a caste system of "need to know" you WILL ALWAYS HAVE CORRUPTION.

Socialist, capitalist--its all caste systems whether bureaucrat or feudal lord. When you have an us and a them you're in trouble.

Get rid of government, live with people you love and care about, get some spirituality to connect with nature and the divine, and you'll find peace.


Beware of leftwing organs conflating different issues to try to discredit both.

Deep state real, that much is realised with the response to Brexit.

Q? Being kind its a Psy OP by trolls on 4 chan to get a movement going based on a mix of truths and myths, or it could be a load of babble primed to take in rightwing truthers.

The pedo stuff is true but Q was not the original source for any of it and I am hopeful that Miss Maxwell squeals bigtime to the fBI.

I treat it, Q, with both amusement and great caution.


Q is a total fraud, nothing more than a new era of "Satanic Panic" trying to create a bogeyman to blame Liberals / Democrats. It is an attempt to excuse any behavior from Trump which paints him in a negative light - mispronouncing words, misspelling words, incoherent rambling, blatant corruption - as some kind of 84-dimensional chess to send coded messages to his followers and help combat the "deep state" and take down "Satanic pedophile cannibals". Everything "Q" predicts ends up being false, which then gets excused away as "willful misinformation".

Hopefully I will have an article on the absurdity of Q later.

@Thaw you're just upset that no one invited you into the Illuminati. Those pesky Jews!

You have the gall to call someone else triggered? All you do is complain about Jews, like the sorry little snowflake you are.

@Thaw Yep. You set it, and spiked that one over the net.


Frank O'Collins once pointed out that those who claim God exists are proving that God exists. I took that as meaning that even if God is only one guy imagining God existing, that proves that - in fact - God exists in that form: an imaginary creation by one individual one time in one place. The next day the same guy could claim that God no longer exists, but that would be an attempt to erase a previously established fact: God being sent down the memory hole: a lie.

Whatever is or is not Qanon, and whatever is or is not the Deep State, all viewpoints constitute reality as the existence of Qanon and the Deep State become factual: even if both are stories imagined into being by creators of stories.

As to the quote:

"QAnon is a baseless internet conspiracy theory whose followers believe that a cabal of Satan-worshipping Democrats, Hollywood celebrities and billionaires runs the world while engaging in pedophilia, human trafficking and the harvesting of a supposedly life-extending chemical from the blood of abused children. QAnon followers believe that Donald Trump is waging a secret battle against this cabal and its “deep state” collaborators to expose the malefactors and send them all to Guantánamo Bay.""

That quote starts off deceptively. A claim is made that something is baseless, and that is demonstrably a false claim, there is in fact much data in many places that constitute the base data that forms the story line as people become aware of QAnon. People see "it" because there is base data that forms "it" into being "it."

Then the quote (from whoever constructing the words: authorizing it) claims that "it" is an "internet conspiracy theory," which are word choices that have original origin, and from the original origin of the words the meanings of the words are shared by opposing groups of people who are opposing each other because the meanings of the words have at least 2 opposing meanings.

Meaning A:
conspiracy theory = a hypothesis involving the demand for accountability concerning specific injuries done to specific victims by as yet not tried criminals who are suspected as having caused those injuries.

Example: The grand jury assembled to validate an accusation concerning the death of all those people in Jonestown, Guyana as all those people drank the poisonous coo-aid and died. One of the grand jurors theorized that it was a conspiracy rather than a single individual who willfully murdered all those innocent people.

Meaning B:
conspiracy theory = false information claimed to be true, having no accountable original author, whereby the false information somehow, no accountable reason, manages to attract gullible people into perpetuating the false information despite the information being completely baseless, even though there is no attempt to validate the information officially, such as by grand jury investigation or by trial by jury.

Obviously the second meaning is self-contradictory, as it exemplifies a "conspiracy theory" itself: a baseless (no evidence of a "conspiracy theory" is allowed to be accounted for) claim that a "conspiracy theory" exists.


"...a cabal of Satan-worshipping..."

Look up the following:
Marina Abramovic's Spirit Cooking

Someone could get in their car, drive to a library, open a newspaper, or magazine, where the subject of the information is Marina Abramovic's Spirit Cooking, so as to avoid the claim that the investigator in this case is a "baseless internet conspiracy theory" follower.

Anyone could hear about someone whose loved one went missing, or someone could be so unfortunate as to have their child kidnapped.


That could lead those concerned about their missing children to other people who are also concerned about missing children.

Other people may not want to hear anything about people who form into groups and their goal is to consume children, the subject matter may be just too much to bear. Some people may be inspired to help cover-up such information, for many possible reasons.

Look up any works published about the era of Satanic Panic from the 70s to the 90s. Read Satanic Panic by Jeffrey Victor or Satan's Silence by Debbie Nathan. Look up the debunked claims of Michelle Smith and Lawrence Pazder. Look into the McMartin trial, the Martensville Nightmare, the West Memphis Three, backmasking, Bothered About Dungeons & Dragons, etc.

It's all just another Satanic Panic, with absolutely no evidence. Marina Abramović's Spirit Cooking is nothing more than a performance art piece - to read anything else into it, some evil Satanic cannibalistic plot, is to be gullible and fall for their intentional edginess. Just like in the McMartin case, there is absolutely no evidence for secret underground trafficking tunnels under a small D.C. pizza restaurant.

For people who hear about children going missing, or are unfortunate enough to have their own child go missing, Q conspiracies actually hurt the efforts to combat real trafficking and abuse.


Are you paid to write those words?

I've looked into this and a grand jury - as far as I know - has never independently issued any presentments so as to then try anyone accused of these types of crimes. You offer a case in point, and for you to claim as you do that the McMartin trial exemplifies sold evidence of something not existing, is to ignore all the contradictory evidence available in just that one case. You can claim that the contradictory evidence does not exist, or is false, but in either case you are merely making claims, the former being self-confessing falsehood, the later being merely your subjective opinion, your personal judgment on the existing evidence that does exist.

@Josf-Kelley I wish I was being paid, that would be nice. Instead, I am just passionate, and this is a cause I have a high interest in and have spent years studying.

Gunderson was nothing but a fraud. If you have the time, read / watch these explorations into his false narrative:


What are you saying is "contradictory evidence" when it comes to the McMartin trial? Judy Johnson, the mother who surfaced the claims of some seedy Satanic cabal operating out of the preschool, was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. The grounds of the preschool were dug up, and there was literally no evidence of secret tunnels. The investigation hired three unlicensed "therapists" to interview the children, and it is well documented that they used predatory tactics to coax children into producing false memories to fit their narrative - the kids recanted their stories later.

In fact, all claims of Satanic Ritual Abuse have never been proven, and claims have been easily debunked. There is no evidence of some secret Satanic cabal, in the SRA era or today. There are out and proud Satanic groups, such as The Satanic Temple, who unabashedly condemn and prohibit any harm to children. Why is child trafficking / abuse always automatically labeled Satanic? The largest conspiracy of sexual offenders is the Catholic Church, which shuffles around their abusers after they are outed and blocks any attempt at investigation. Why do we keep seeing accusations of cannibalism as overtly Satanic? The Catholic Church believes in transubstantiation, in which they literally believe they are engaging in cannibalism and eating and drinking the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ. Why don't we start calling it Catholic Ritual Abuse, or claim there are secret Catholic cabals engaged in cannibalism?


Satanic Panic?

Where are all these people who are in this Satanic Panic?

I don't know anyone. On the other hand, there is a Germ Panic called the Wohan Virus, or China Virus, or Trump Virus, or insert any name for something that has not been accurately identified by standard scientific procedures, there is no scientific evidence of precisely what is causing sickness that is now a reason for wearing masks and closing businesses, funding riots, fomenting race war, etc.

That is my point. There is no investigation officially done according to the law of the land. Misdirect from the missing data to a claim of some nebulous Satanic Panic, as if what? What are you doing? The ritual abuse of children, even one, is wished away as a fraud perpetrated by Ted Gunderson? need to investigate any abuse of children?

Actual virus: people born into subsidized slavery, mind-control, brainwashing, to a point at which they all (almost everyone, few exceptions) uniformly obey on command without question. Actual people actually behind making a world of slaves that pay for their own slavery, and the core of the virus is an order that must be obeyed without question, there will be no return to standard processes that efficiently, and effectively, divorce fact from fiction: actual accountability of the facts that matter in any case.

OK, so lacking any actual trial where any accused satanic child abuser is on trial, you can safely say that no such thing exists, and therefore there isn't any need for a trial, and anyone claiming that there is a need is a victim of the brainwashing done by Ted Gunderson as he created this Satanic Panic, all on his own, what a nut job, nothing to see here, just stay at home and wear your mask.

Me, on the other hand, would like to know, definitively, why anyone would not want a number of independent, unbiased, honest, discrete, members of any county in America, to investigate these many cases of injured children, according to the law of the land, as independent grand jurors, and from that process, those people either find no cause to act (no bill) or they find a cause to act (presentment) and an accused individual is then offered a court date before the people in a trial by the country, a trial by jury. Why not? Once the transcripts are published in the case, against Ted Gunderson, or against anyone else, on trial for fomenting "Satanic Panic," or on trial for consuming children, or on trial for fomenting riots, or whatever is the latest craze, in the transcripts are the facts that the jury determined as such, and the matter is thereby settled in the lawful way, for all to see, so as to begin settling the controversies that go on, and on, and on, without any apparent means by which such controversies are settled.

Is there any truth in Qanon or the "deep state"?

Here is a start:

"The Six Purposes of Schooling" - John Taylor Gatto

“Now you are ready to hear the six purposes of modern schooling taken directly from Dr. Anglisse’s book.”

“The first function of schooling is adjustive. Schools are to establish fixed habits of reaction to authority. It is fixed habits of reaction. Notice that this precludes critical judgment completely. Notice too that requiring obedience to stupid orders is a much better test of function one than following sensible orders ever could be. You don’t know whether people are reflexibly obedient unless they will march right off the cliff.”

“How can you establish weather someone has successfully developed this automatic reaction, because people have a proclivity when they are given sensible orders to follow? That is not what they want to reach. The only way to measure this is to give stupid orders, and people automatically follow those. Now you have achieved function one.”

Turn your own authority off, it does not exist, do not act on your own authority, wait for orders, obey when told.

You don't, but what is the point of your words?

You know, because you found out, that there is no organized satanic cult anywhere and therefore there are no innocent children being consumed by them, so your advice is to stop listening to the lies told that are making people believe in such nonsense as "Satanic Panic," and instead what? Go after conspiracy theorists like Ted Gunderson, who is guilt of causing "Satanic Panic" for no good reason? Or is your advise to stop listening to all the "conspiracy theorists" and do what? What is your advice on this subject matter? Please be specific.

My advice is to learn how the law actually works, and then once that is learned it becomes obvious that there is no law in America, it has been usurped by a counterfeit version. If people don't learn what the law really is, then people will do without it.

@JacksonNought You are passionate about what? Being an apologist for Satanists?

@Die_Grinder and what exactly is wrong with Satanists?

If you do even a minimal amount of research you will see that modern Satanism is a non-theistic, non-superstitious religious identity which deserves all of the same freedoms as any other religion in a free and pluralistic society. Satanism does not believe in, nor worship, a literal Satan - Satan is a used as a symbol representing the ultimate rebel against oppressive authority, embracing rational inquiry, and promoting personal freedom. There is nothing "evil" about modern Satanism, and in fact The Satanic Temple is a US federally recognized tax-exempt religion - trying to eliminate it goes against everything the US stands for and flies in the face of religious freedom.

As I said before, Catholics seem to be more likely perpetrators of pedophilia and cannibalism. Why is there such a strong push for diverting attention away from Catholics and blaming Satanists? Are you being an apologist for Catholics?


Marxist/Communist/Satanists, or whatever name used when consuming children, is academic as far as I am concerned. The subject matter is an open question concerning what is or is not true about criminals in general and abused children to be more specific as in:

“QAnon is a baseless internet conspiracy theory whose followers believe that a cabal of Satan-worshipping Democrats, Hollywood celebrities and billionaires runs the world while engaging in pedophilia, human trafficking and the harvesting of a supposedly life-extending chemical from the blood of abused children. QAnon followers believe that Donald Trump is waging a secret battle against this cabal and its “deep state” collaborators to expose the malefactors and send them all to Guantánamo Bay."

If there was law in America the name on the presentment (indictment) offering the accused (presumed to be innocent) a court date would be whatever name is the name that identifies the accused sufficient to avoid confusing the accused with someone else.

If QAnon is a willful diversion, and people are injured by that diversion, then that is no longer free speech, it is another example of a crime, such as yelling "fire" in a crowded theater knowing full well that people will be injured in the stampede caused by the abuse of speech: subject to due process such as a trial by jury. Who is perpetrating that fraud? How many more people will be injured by those who are behind that fraud? What happened to the law in America?

If Ted Gunderson is willfully creating a "Satanic Panic," and innocent people are injured by Ted Gunderson and his fraud, then where is the law in America?

How about a change of labels in yet another example of a so-called "Conspiracy Theory?"

Is it a good idea to find the individual (or individuals) responsible for the murder of John Kennedy in a timely manner so as to avoid similar murders, such as the murder of Martin Luther King Jr, next on the list, and then Robert Kennedy also on the list?

If it is a good idea to find the individual (or individuals) responsible for the murder of those people, say Martin Luther King Jr., then how would that process be done in a timely manner?


THE COURT: Let me ask you, do all of you
agree with this verdict?

THE JURY: Yes (In unison).

THE COURT: In answer to the
question did Loyd Jowers participate in a
conspiracy to do harm to Dr. Martin Luther
King, your answer is yes.

Do you also find that others, including governmental agencies, were parties to this conspiracy as alleged by
the defendant? Your answer to that one is
also yes.

And the total amount of damages
you find for the plaintiffs entitled to is
one hundred dollars. Is that your verdict?

THE JURY: Yes (In unison).

Those are trial transcripts 30 years after the fact (justice denied is justice delayed) where a jury found that Martin Luther King Jr. was victim of Conspiracy Murder. No theory, actual facts, facts determined in a jury trial much too late to save Robert Kennedy, much too late to save any other victims of Conspiracy Murder by the same perpetrators who got away with it for 30 years.

Call the Conspiracy Murderers "the government" "the deep state" but don't call them late to their court date.


The discussion in the video below includes the use of the word Satanic, and also the word Luciferian. I'm not one to blindly believe the meanings of words used by other people, but when I use the word Satanic, my meaning equates to very serious crimes done by guilty people upon innocent people. My guess is that the person using the word Satanic in the following discussion is using a similar meaning to my own. []

@Josf-Kelley can you tell me what time codes they use the words so I can watch them? I tried to sit through the whole thing, but I felt like I would eye-roll myself to death. Am I supposed to take my worldview from Sacha Stone, who seems like he broke his brain on LSD and thinks he is a starseed or some shit? He is peddling the same "Satanic Ritual Abuse" nonsense that so-called "experts" ranted about in the 70s and 80s, all without any shred of evidence.

So if some lunatic calls a serious crime something Satanic, then that makes it so? I could call pedophilia inherently Christian - so that makes it so? So I have to throw out all of my own values and evidence and use your definition of Satanic / Satanism?


No, I am at the moment overloaded.

I can offer to those who WILL sit through the torture of listening to other people offering their unique points of view the following:

Time: 18:00 or so...

The level of control is shown on a graph whereby CURRENCY (traffic with velocity) on the subject of #savethechildren suddenly goes up after "Wayfare" but then suddenly goes back down, which the REPORTER points out is a measure of CONTROL. We, those in control, do not want the slaves organizing in their own defense? Yes, no, maybe?

@Josf-Kelley I wonder, did you take the time to sit through the videos I posted?


I did. But I stopped. I stopped in the first video at the point at which the "reporter" claimed that people who report on spraying aerosol chemicals across the sky are "Conspiracy Theorists." I could not listen any more from that source. I don't have the time to listen, again, again, and again, to lies that I have fully vetted as lies on my own authority, at my own cost, with great help from people who have expended their own costs, on their own authority, pointing out the facts that matter in that case.


Now, of you effectively segregate, separate, divide, divorce, and discriminate non-criminal (people willfully injure innocent people for fun and profit) from criminal SATANISM, then I wish you the best with your clearly understood demarcation lines on that name SATANISM.

Do you know anything about the work of Frank O'Collins, in particular his work on the Jesuits and the Black Pope?

@Josf-Kelley well I will echo your sentiment, that I have no time for the videos you share, as they are "lies that I have fully vetted as lies on my own authority, at my own cost, with great help from people who have expended their own costs, on their own authority, pointing out the facts that matter in that case."


Oddly enough with your Parthian Arrow response (non-response) the Time 28:00 or so...

“...there’s tons of people looking into this, it’s a crisis, it is a crisis of corruption in the child protective service and foster industries and many people many lawmakers who’ve looked into this have been threatened or killed. It’s a real problem. Kevin Roose doesn’t bother to tell you about that, no, no, he wants it all wrapped up in that neat little package that makes it look like conspiracy theorists are talking about things that it – like never happens – it’s the cover-uppers themselves who focus on this quote-unquote extreme ans salacious parts of it always, always, adding the modifiers satanic or cannibal to this. How would it look, they know they have to do it, because if they just say to the president: “there’s this group of people who think you are taking down pedophile networks” everyone would say: “Well isn’t that a good thing, is that supposed to be a bad thing or a good thing.” I mean, you know, but they add these words satanic and cannibals satanic and cannibals satanic and cannibal so that when they say: “Oh don’t worry everybody it’s not satanic and cannibal pedophilia and child trafficking, its just normal child trafficking like exploiting their labor and exploiting them for the sex, sex industry.” Yeah, I don’t think people are as stupid as the New York Times and the rest of the Mainstream Cover-Uppers think they are…”

@Josf-Kelley so it seems you and Polly... agree with me at a certain point? That the whole "Satanic cannibal" thing makes it ridiculous? So the "cover-uppers" are the ones peddling the conspiracies about Satanic cabals, cannibalism, and adrenochrome? That it does indeed distract from the real child abuse going on in the country / world? So we agree that Q is a ridiculous hoax meant to muddy the waters, and there are no secret Satanic cabals out there performing rituals on children, it is just normal run-of-the-mill scum criminals?

So you don't believe there is any actual "ritual abuse" going on, you are just using "Satanic" as a synonym for "evil"? Well I would definitely disagree with that definition, as a Satanist there is a high level of altruism involved, and I would instead describe much of the major organized religions as "evil" instead.


"That the whole "Satanic cannibal" thing makes it ridiculous?"

Yes, and I am glad that the message was able to get to you intact. I tried to say the same thing.

"So the "cover-uppers" are the ones peddling the conspiracies about Satanic cabals, cannibalism, and adrenochrome?"

Those are your words, not mine, and not direct quotes from Polly, but the message is similar enough for agreement as far as agreement is possible. Where agreement is not possible is where actual harm is done to actual children by actual people claiming to be harming children for Satanic purposes, or for the consumption of adrenochrome taken from children at the time, and in the place, where the guilty criminal (claiming to be a Satanist) is harming the innocent child. For all I know personally, having no personal experience with any Satanism, or extracting adrenochrome from terrorized children, the whole thing is made up so as to cover up regular old child slavery.

The tactic appears to work on some level. People who would be "up in arms" taking action to defend against regular old child slavery (and all the harm done to children in that "industry" ) are able to ignore regular old child slavery with an inspired apathy inspired by the impossible to believe "conspiracy theories" concerning unbelievable Satanism, and easily debunked consumption of children for their supplies of adrenochrome.

All someone has to do is look up Satanism and Conspiracy Theory on Snopes and the state of apathy is handed to them with a ribbon and bow. But, some people have their children kidnapped, so it may be more difficult for those people to simply go back to work and pay their taxes: The mother of Johnny Gosch for example.

"That it does indeed distract from the real child abuse going on in the country / world?"

My point has been, still is, that there is no law, if there was then those who print libelous false claims could be held to account in a Court of Law (common law, trial by jury, trial by the country, where the people, not the government, adjudicate fact from fiction, guilt from innocence, and sentence), so The People could know if Ted Gunderson is a libelous fraud or not, and The People can know of John Podesta is abusing children supplied by a whole industry of criminals, or not. My point is pointed out and for some reason it is ignored with a curious apathy.

"So we agree that Q is a ridiculous hoax meant to muddy the waters, and there are no secret Satanic cabals out there performing rituals on children, it is just normal run-of-the-mill scum criminals?"

That is a political tactic, finding agreement where there is no data from which to actually report on agreement, as if you alone have the power to judge all facts from all fictions simply by creating a narrative and then propagandizing your fabricated story line.

Your fabricated, fictional, story-line becomes the truth that matters (to you) as you make it up, and then you use media to attempt to convince other people that your fabricated, falsified, deception is true, and that deception is then attempted to cause other people to follow along in the story line that you create and propagandize.

So turn that around on me, please, and show me where there is law in America, show me where your created fabrication of truth is proven in such a way as to remove all doubt to at least 12 randomly selected, honorable, honest, reasonable, moral, people.

"... there are no secret Satanic cabals out there performing rituals on children..."

An attempt at moving from accusation to court date is documented here:

The case sited by Ted Gunderson is a murder case involving evidence of people involved in Satanic rituals.

From those 2 cases alone the potential for the discovery of 1 case of Satanic cabals performing rituals on children exist, and therefore the statement you make, as you fabricate a reality, is based on incomplete data, as if a child closes his eyes and concludes that he has made himself invisible.

"So you don't believe there is any actual "ritual abuse" going on, you are just using "Satanic" as a synonym for "evil"? "

And the jury responds with what? I can't speak for 12 random people no more than you can speak for me.

I can defend myself from your obvious libelous words. To me Ted Gunderson does a very good job of either fabricating a case out of thin air or reporting on a case of Satanic ritual abuse of children. That is one case.

"...I was kicked out of the FBI for practicing Satanic ceremonies..." Ted Gunderson

Someone accuses Ted Gunderson of practicing Satanic ceremonies as Ted Gunderson attempts to expose Satanic ceremonies, while the law ignores the crime with apathy and with their own false accusations that lead to no court date. The law is accused of covering up and the law does not lead to a court date.

"So you don't believe there is any actual "ritual abuse" going on, you are just using "Satanic" as a synonym for "evil"? "

That is a false accusation. That is libel. Your claim is false because your claim is a claim concerning my personal beliefs, and therefore the only one capable of knowing if your claim is true or not is me, not you.

I think that there is ample evidence to suggest that among the hundreds of thousands of reported cases of missing children some of those cases involve criminals who claim to be Satan Worshipers who are claiming that their consumption of children involves Satan Worship performed by them.

If I were on a grand jury investigating an accusation by some poor mom whose child was stolen by masked criminals, and during my investigation I find a lead on some people who are Satan Worshipers according to their advertised media, I would not conclude that my lead to the kidnappers was false just because the Satan Worshipers worshiped Satan.

"So you don't believe there is any actual "ritual abuse" going on, you are just using "Satanic" as a synonym for "evil"? "

If a lead to a kidnapping leads to Satan Worshipers, the fact that they are Satan Worshipers does not change the facts contained in the lead to the Satan Worshipers, such as:

The investigator (grand jury member, private investigator, or law enforcement agent, or mom herself) is led to a witness who saw the white van previously identified as the kidnappers van, driving into that building owned by the Satan Worshipers Inc (LLC). No, oh no, it can't be, there is no need to follow this lead, those are merely Satan Worshipers, they can't possibly be kidnappers.

"So you don't believe there is any actual "ritual abuse" going on, you are just using "Satanic" as a synonym for "evil"? "

No. That is libelous.

"Well I would definitely disagree with that definition, as a Satanist there is a high level of altruism involved, and I would instead describe much of the major organized religions as "evil" instead."

I attempted to point you to the work of Frank O'Collins.

The following may also be of some use to you and any other Satanists:

Age of Reason, Thomas Paine

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

@Josf-Kelley you had me at the beginning... but lost me halfway through when you seemed to go on an incoherent rant.

First off, the repeated use of question marks in my post indicates I was asking questions. I was asking if I understood your point correctly, seeking clarification. I never put words in your mouth, so your constant accusations that I am making claims or engaging in libel is quite odd, and unnecessarily defensive.

Why don't you just tell me what you think, in plain words, using your own thoughts and not videos of other people, and leaving out the odd legalese?


Guilty as charged. I missed the last question mark.

"...incoherent rant..."

Was it an incoherent rant, or did you simply fail to get the intended message, except the parts you prefer to get?

"Why don't you just tell me what you think, in plain words, using your own thoughts and not videos of other people, and leaving out the odd legalese?"

Frank O'Collins was a huge resourse for historical changes in meanings of words whereby organized people for good would use a flag, a language, a narrative, a label, such as Lucifer, or Satan, to label their group, and then, as likely as not, another group (evil) would then use the same name to gather up members of the other group, and turn those group members from a good (or amoral) course of action to a bad (immoral course), such as:

We in our group called BLANK help each other avoid harm from bad people, and we do so effectively, join us, or not, it is voluntary, you can join and leave at will. You can pay the dues, or you can not pay the dues, at will.

The name can be any name.

Then something happens, and this is not a new thing, not a new phenomenon, not according to a lot of evidence from many sources, including the vast piles of evidence provided by Frank O'Collins.

We in our group called BLANK claim to help each other avoid harm from bad people. That group for some strange reason stops being effective, moves from a voluntary association, and moves toward forcing members by fraud, by threat of aggressive violence, and then by clear examples of violence for all to see when someone stops paying the membership dues, to obey without question.


"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Time passes and that all too familiar (to those who care to look) phenomenon happens and:

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned."

If you and your group are happy to live and let live and call yourselves followers of Satan, or whatever, it isn't my fight, and it isn't any skin off my nose for you to do that at your own cost.

But if you think that your group has a unique label that hasn't - over centuries - gathered up some bad press, then you may be in for some unwanted extra costs associated with the adoption of that specific label.

Have you read Albert Pike?

@Josf-Kelley I apologize if "incoherent rant" was a bit aggressive. But, you did lose me when you started going off about laws and juries and libel.

I have not read Albert Pike.

I will end this back and forth with this:

Yes, Satanism has gathered bad press over centuries. So have Pagans, Jews, atheists, LGBTQ people, BIPOC, etc. Accusations and slander / libel has been used against the "outgroup" for all of recorded history, it is a common tactic. Should Satanists have to deny their religion to make people feel better, or apologize for the strawmen people have constructed? Should Christians have slunk away into the shadows because there was bad press and unwanted extra costs associated back in Ancient Rome?

As I have see it, and you may or may not agree, there are definitely abhorrent crimes being perpetrated in the world regarding slavery, abuse, and murder - and especially with children - but accusations of evil Satanic rituals and cannibalism and organ harvesting just distract from the real crimes going on, make it easier to dismiss that things are happening, and pull away resources from investigating legitimate cases.There is a definite possibility that people decide to abuse children or commit crimes while identifying as Satanists, whatever that means to them, and maybe there are rare cases of people actually harvesting organs to try and get adrenochrome. That doesn't in any way mean there is a vast global conspiracy of elites performing Satanic rituals and sacrificing thousands of children. Just as the Catholic Church abusing children doesn't mean all Catholics do, or because some radical terrorists are Muslim all Muslims are terrorists.


No one has to read my comments, freedom starts in each individual mind, and is then acted out externally.

However, the following was offered and very welcome to me:

"That doesn't in any way mean there is a vast global conspiracy of elites performing Satanic rituals and sacrificing thousands of children. Just as the Catholic Church abusing children doesn't mean all Catholics do, or because some radical terrorists are Muslim all Muslims are terrorists."

Those "in charge" are duty bound to identify, publish, and defend the children - each one - and case after case after case those "in charge" crush efforts to identify, publish, and defend the children whose abuse is traced to those "in charge."

Sure, "we didn't know," could be a one time legitimate reason for those "in charge" to fail to police their own membership, but time, after time, after time, after time, those "in charge" confess their culpability.

"Qui non prohibet cum potest, jubet: That man abets an evil, who prevents it not, when it is in his power. Nec caret scrupulo sosietatis occultae qui evidenter facinori definit obviare: nor can he escape the suspicion of being a secret accomplice, who evidently declines the prevention of an atrocious crime."
Englishman’s Right: A Dialogue between a Barrister at Law and a Juryman, John Hawles, 1763

Conspiracy of Silence, Conspiracy of non-feasance, Conspiracy of misfeasance, Conspiracy of malfeasance, Conspiracy of misprision of treason, at least.


Except for the editorializing, The Guardian has the basic beliefs, of this group, as I have understood them. Making them some dangerous boggy man is a need of the Guardian, and other media with a competing conspiracy theories.


Maybe, probably, and Yes! Really!!!?

Quigley Level 4 Aug 29, 2020

While looking further into this narrative that exists under the heading Qanon I found a few relevant facts, such as the facts reported on a government document:

"Epinephrine solution deteriorates rapidly on exposure to air or light, turning pink from oxidation
to adrenochrome and brown from the formation of melanin. Replace EpiPen and EpiPen Jr if the
epinephrine solution appears discolored (pinkish or brown color), cloudy, or contains particles."


An alleged "government" document, perhaps.

I looked for that information after listening to this:

"The pedo Cover-Upperers in the Deep State Media have gone crazy. Legislators have gone crazy! Everyone in the child-trafficking business are in full blown panic over the fact that people on the left and right are coming together on common ground: we want an end to Human Trafficking and Child Exploitation."

In that video there was a report on the shortage of EpiPens, and how an EpiPen deteriorates (or improves to some?) going from epinephrine to adrenochrome.

Then I found this:

"Witch Hunt: The Storm is Upon Us"

So..."Is there any truth in Qanon or the "deep state"?"

The assumption here is that someone asking the question is someone who wants an accurate answer.

If you can find out where Qanon gets most of their funding, you will learn who they work for


Have you seen Shadow Gate? Have you seen the interview with Patrick Bergy and Alex Jones? Have you seen the reporting being done by Brendon O'Connell?

Qanon fits the pattern of weaponized networking in the form reported as I.I.A. (Internet Interactive Activity) involving high tech (billions of dollars poured into the industry from multiple investors) brainwashing or mind-control (which is then body control: action) as is (fits the same pattern) both the Global Treasonous Pandemic Fraud (so-called Covid-19) and the National Treasonous Subsidized Riots.

It is no longer about which target markets are now going to start smoking cigarettes using Television as the high tech device employed to cause women to buy into the tobacco markets (see: Edward Bernays and Torches of Freedom), it is now about reaching the goal of total domination by criminal employment of A.I. and robotics. That makes sense as a means to an end, but seriously - in my opinion - people are measurably polarizing rapidly (accelerating) against such criminality.

Path A: Something along the lines as depicted in the book 1984 moving to the depiction in the movies Terminator and The Matrix

Path B: Something along the lines as exemplified in America between 1774 and 1789 when people have had enough of Divide and Conquer, and they turn polarized in the other direction.


One more point here is that Netflix just had to walk back a movie about a fourteen-year-old who leaves her family to pursue a life of twerking. I understand that "where there's smoke there's also fire" isn't always completely true, but a major entertainment company offering this kind of movie certainly looks like smoke that suggests an underlying pedophilia fire. When we see things like that happening in this kind of culture, dismissing the accusations of a cabal of pedophiles having great power in these influential industries is impossible to dismiss lightly.

That was an unfortunate case of America and its love of sexualizing / fetishizing women's bodies. The French film, Mignonnes, is a coming of age story about a young Senegalese girl, which actually is highly critical of a culture which steers impressionable young girls toward the hypersexualization of their bodies - no different than you see in popular teen pageants, or ridiculous school dress codes that send girls home for the thickness of their tank top straps or arbitrary rules on the length of skirts and shorts. As with everything in the USA, the marketing was changed to focus on sexualization, which is where the controversy came from - rightly so.


Anytime three people get together two will conspire against the third. Jane tells Susan a secret about Kathy.

People are confused about the nature of gregariousness/extroversion/social instincts. By instinct social animals are sociable not prosocial with the exception of the social insects who are eusocial. Because civilization requires specialization and specialization requires complex cooperation human societies function as if we were a eusocial species in opposition to sociability.

Sociability is about building networks of relationships. Often short circuiting civilizations need for hierarchies of productive competence. Being prosocial or abstractly eusocial often means that you have to overlook relationships that are personally beneficial such as mores against Nepotism. As a species in our natural state nepotism is normal and beneficial for fitness. In unnaturally large and complex societies nepotism reduced group fitness.

So yes conspiracies are everywhere but they are not what you think they are.

As to Q Anon I have no idea. The irony is of course that such conspiracy theories is one of the reasons for secrecy. The government in part keeps secrets because people can't handle the truth. The truth is that everyone is "corrupt" in large and small ways. Christians have an concept for human failings called original sin which can only be overcome by grace. If we all had the " grace" to accept the failings of others in consideration of our own weakness and practiced forgiveness there would be less need for secrets.

Secrets are like lies, they tend to expand over time one secret or lie requires a darker secret or lie increasing corruption, more corruption more secrets. There is no real solution but the constitution lays out a system of checks and balances hoping to keep corruption manageable. We are the process play out in the media where little lies have become absurd lies, such as peaceful protestors. Riots the media helped spawn because of political corruption. Every lie is now an open secret.

The first corruption of the republic was to make it a democracy. democracies spawn liars. Democracies are manageable at the local level where everyone knows everyone else but an electoral college and appointed senators make sense at the state and federal level. Similarly universal suffrage makes sense locally but not at the federal level. You cannot have a welfare state with open borders or open voting. That said we have to deal with things as they are. One of those things is that the people who believe in Q Anon do not really believe in a constitutional republic, they want a democracy every bit as much as the corrupt Democrats.

wolfhnd Level 8 Aug 26, 2020

I remember polls of a few years ago that showed that Americans have a more favorable opinion of herpes than top levels of government (around 15%). At that time, I shrugged it off but now am better understanding the implications.


There is a culture in Washington that is every bit as disdainful of the "average" person as the average person is of " top levels of government ". It could be thought of as part of the checks and balances in a republic.

A republic assumes that the elite will rise to high office. That there is a competency hierarchy and that only the competent will hold office. That is however not the natural order of things. In the natural world nature produces and apes consume. Competency in the natural world is not based on productivity but the ability to network. Those networks will in effect be conspiracies.

Two examples of how appeal to primitive emotions influence the selection of our "elites" are Justin Trudeau and Barack Obama. Two men of no demonstrative accomplishment but with some level of "sex appeal" . In Trudeau's case his boyish clean appearance and predilection for drama appealed to the shallow electorate too "busy" for dreary policy and consequences. Obama shared those characteristics plus the same shallow electorate couldn't pass up the opportunity to virtue signal by voting for the first "black" president.

If we could rise above our instinct for networking (conspiracy) and allow fairness and empathy to remain the providence of personal relationships then the elites may actually be elite and provide a balance to the passions of the democratic mob.


When you write the question as "any truth," you almost make a "yes" vote mandatory. We know that there is corruption in government. There always has been and always will be. Bureaucracies have always fought to maintain their power, and the federal government is full of bureaucracies. That they would do things that weren't legal or ethical is no surprise. The emails of Peter Strzok and Lisa Page are evidence of this kind unethical and illegal behavior. I believe that there is some truth to the accusations of pedophilia in Hollywood. I don't think there's any doubt that Harvey Weinstein used his power to manipulate young women into sex, and as we see more and more people trying to promote pedophilia as just another inborn "orientation," I have to accept that some level of pedophilia in that mix is plausible.

The problem comes in assuming the universal nature of a single conspiracy. At every point in human history, some people have been trying to take control of the world. Some of them may have seen themselves as offering a benign tyranny while others don't care whether they do good for humanity or not. Many of the actions that they are going to take are going to be the same in either case. They are often going to try to join powerful groups to gain influence among other powerful people. They are going to try to gather information on all people. They are going to advocate for policies that require more compliance on more issues from more people. None of this means that all of them are working together to enact a single plan of world domination. Not everyone working with them in every organization is going to have the same goals of domination.

The Obama stimulus package was a clear payoff to people who were on his side politically. He took taxpayer money and gave that money to his friends. He only later admitted that many of the plans were not "shovel ready." In other words, the giveaways were a bad use of taxpayer dollars.

The Trump tax cuts were the opposite. Trump didn't give away taxpayer dollars to anyone. He instead stopped the federal government from taking dollars from all kinds of people and corporations. Many of those people and corporations don't support Trump, but he didn't make that distinction. He just tried to break the flow of dollars from taxpayers to the government to favored groups by not taking the money from the taxpayers.

The problem is that many people in government don't accept that any dollar that used to be going to them should stop coming to them. To them, the taxpayers' dollars don't really belong to the taxpayers but belong to the government. Like any racketeering mob, these people believe that they are entitled to a piece of everything that everyone else earns. I have no doubt that the people with this mindset are trying to work together to oppose any kind of reform that reduces the power and wealth of the federal bureaucracies. To me, these people aren't really Republicans or Democrats. Instead, they are fierce partisans of the Beltway Cocktail Party. Their primary loyalty is to their friends in the bureaucracies and the power and riches that they take from productive America. Some of them mean well at some level, and some of them are sincerely and openly selfish.

I can see where all of these groups together look like the "deep state" that QAnon opposes. I think that they are less of a vast conspiracy and more a vast group of people pushing policies that have become harmful in their scope regardless of initial good intentions. Some people in these groups are doing things that are illegal and unethical, and if we had an honest news media, these people would be investigated and exposed. While I don't doubt some complicity on the part of the media, much of the problem is just incompetence and an inability to see the world critically as the media was once supposed to do.

To the extent that QAnon is accurately criticizing real problems, I see quite a bit of truth in what they say. On the other hand, their accurate identification of many of the trees doesn't mean that I completely accept their description of the forest.

Perhaps Obama never used a shovel before? As a verb, "shovel" means "move (coal, earth, snow, or a similar substance) with a shovel.". Maybe he was thinking "similar substance" = cash?

Yes, I did mess up the poll question. Silver lining, it did foster clarification responses.

Our government is so complex that it seems easy to hide graft. I would ask what we can do about it but I can guess you answer 😟

Great comment.


The internet is full of baseless conspiracy theories. Things that happen on the internet often become embroiled in internet culture. Q hid inside this magnificent arena of bizarre and humorous male 'freespeech'. Q happened. It is still happening. It went from high cryptography to reassurance to news to communications to education. It worked because it was designed to work. It made "people" aware of things that had been covered up. Serious things. The Satanism and the JQ and the pedophilia were all useful camouflage. It was a major 'awakening' of Christians and other marginalised groups. The most remarkable thing about it was how hungry people were for the message. Whole new social media platforms emerged and they still are. Whoever implemented the idea was well trained and the idea itself masterminded by some very very clever people. Possibly by The Best People. Also Pepe. And maybe Jesus. Internet culture reminds me of stories of the Wild West.

bobdub Level 4 Aug 26, 2020

Agreed that the Internet (and now encrypted communication) has enabled people to believe anything they want. I thought things would improve but they haven't. 😟


Oh, I just noticed that my poll could be confusing as I said "any truth" vs "is true in totality". Please consider the results in that light. 🙂

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