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Is free speech dead?

After being dropped from their app stores by Google and Apple without notice just days after the Capital protests, hosting provider Amazon announced yesterday that they will be removing free-speech site Parler from the Internet today citing posts that are alleged to contain violent content. As no examples where given, it is unclear if that content was any different than incendiary posts found on Twitter and Facebook during the BLM protests this summer.

Parler, a home for thousands of refugees who have been de-personed from Facebook, YouTube, and Twitter, had grown 10x since the US election to the 216th largest US website as of yesterday. While Parler hopes to be able to move to another hosting provider in the next week or so, it remains to be seen if that will be enough to keep the site available. It is possible that activists will also target domain name registrars, banks, and other services required to maintain a high-traffic website.

A Trump supporter might ask: Was this action warranted? Is there a double standard being played out for Trump and BLM/ANTIFA/Biden supporters? Do Big Tech platforms like Google, Amazon, and Apple, with a near-monopoly on online communication, have any obligation to be politically agnostic? Where does this lead?

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Do Trump supporters and those who value the 1st Amendment have viable alternatives to Big Tech?

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Admin 8 Jan 10
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59 comments (26 - 50)

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3

2 weeks ago trump supporters were United into a massive force. Now we are all scattered to the wind like dust scurrying around looking for corners of the internet that we can feel at home in. Those places are being crushed by big tech and phone companies like roaches. I have NEVER been a doomer. I am now dooming.

3

Personally I don't use facebook or twitter to talk about politics.
Twitter was totally useless from the start 140 characters... talk about feeding the dumb. It quickly became a LW Prog site and has basically stayed that way... Why would Trump even post there? Why would a President even need to?
Facebook hardly allows anonimity it is mostly used by people using their real names etc to communicate with friends. I only ever used it to find old school friends. If I was to make political comment on facebook, I'd lose LW friends and be attacked by trolls and leave myself open for computer id fraud. who in their right mind does that. I don't use facebook as a news service... that is stupid. I use real news services.
Personally I think we have allowed LW Progressives to commandeer the Net largely and we are a long way behind which leaves us all talking in bubbles, unfortunately the LW Prog bubble is the biggest.

3

Main stream media is paid for news, thus affiliated by profit, and no longer free.

3

Free speech has been on life support since public sentiment turned against it as a “far right” concept. It’s frightening how a growing segment sees free speech as something sinister, and how easily the public backs Silicone Valley and academia in using “hate speech” to make an end run around this basic right.

Finding alternatives to massive, existing platforms is nothing but a band aid solution. We need to fundamentally change how we view the giants like Facebook, YouTube and Twitter.

Social media has become a public utility and should be subject to specific oversight, much like broadcasters, airlines, water/sewage, sanitation or power providers.

I certainly have the right to shout my views on a street corner, but my freedom is being curbed when a public utility refuses me service because I don’t conform to their ideology.

It’s ironic that both right and left are using the “private” company argument to defend powerful monopolies which exist to strip individuals of privacy. Social media, in my view, has become a public utility and should be subject to specific oversight, much like broadcasters, airlines, water/sewage, sanitation or power providers.

GeeMac Level 8 Jan 10, 2021
3

I am thinking I will first switch to a VPN provider. Then I need to search out someone who understands the dark web so I know how to get to servers there. I think they will be the last to go down. It is a sign of our times that we have to camouflage ourselves among thieves, terrorists and pornographers to find islands of free speech.

This is out there but what about ham radio?

3

I guess the real question for me is what to do with the Amazon Prime money I won't be sending them? The free market is a true democracy. Let your votes be heard.

@TheMiddleWay Paypal has also engaged in overstepping its role.

3

"I owe my soul to the company store" Seems to me we are returning to the historical norm of Masters and slaves. After WWII there was a brief period of economic freedom but the 60s generations was so irresponsible it couldn't last. Now we see how that generations "enlightment" is being used to enslave people once again.

wolfhnd Level 8 Jan 10, 2021

I was thinking about the company store / company town analogy earlier. They hold too much of your life hostage over your "good behavior".

3

I think at its heart, it's about Organizations vs Individuals. Organized groups working against individuals represents an order of magnitude disproportionate response that an individual cannot prevail against. Governments were that in the beginning, and restricted speech, as they say, because they want to, and they can. With the principles of free expression, we decided governments should not do this. And some large pieces, if not all or even most, of the modern world went along with this. But large organizations, formal and ad-hoc, today have so much power over our increasingly interconnected and interdependent lives that they too are coercive threats to free expression. Some day, that will have to change. But collectivists don't want this, and they're in power for now.

2

Funny how mentioning "free speech" unleashes a torrent of conspiracy theory gibberish which is essentially a diarrhoea of speculation, manic pressure of ideas only vaguely connected to reality with heavy heavy doses of paranoia, what does that have in common with the orange ex-twitter in chief?

N0DD Level 7 Jan 11, 2021
2

There are platforms and alternatives. Are they as vulnerable as Parler? If Duck Duck Go is a search engine, does it have the ability to host such a platform? Do we take initiative to remove ourselves from the others?

Randi Level 4 Jan 11, 2021
2

Great memes by the way.

Is free speech dead?

I suppose absolute free speech was never absolute. Even in United States. Some things were made hard to talk about because of cultural norms. And some things were outright hostile to powers at be, so they were investigated. For example....

McCarthyism is the practice of making accusations of subversion or treason, especially when related to communism, without any proper regard for evidence. The term refers to U.S. senator Joseph McCarthy (R-Wisconsin) and has its origins in the period in the United States known as the Second Red Scare, lasting from the late 1940s through the 1950s.

Before that if you were black, lower class or even before that slave, I'm sure you did not enjoy the same privileges as upper political class.

Newspapers were heavily used for propaganda in tense moments during US history. So absolute "free speech" is probably just an ideal , rather than political reality.

That being said, today we are seeing something new. Its not the censorship, its the scale and methods of censorship. The first reaction might be fear and anger and understandably so, but that is just first step in the process of adjusting. When you grew up in America , bealiving that everything written in the Constitution is your God given right, it is hard pill to swallow, realizing its just a piece of paper and unless those in power honer its authority, it is only unrealized idea. Noble one, to be sure. But ultimately unrealistic.

............................................

The deep state and trilateral commission that supported private / public partnership has been in charge since the Jimmy Carter era. So for the last 50's years, American did not have free and fair election, they could choose republican or democrat, but in reality it was the same giant swamp and same foreign policy. Endless wars. Federal Reserve Ponzi scheme etc.

But as long as they kept people in America well fed, distracted by entertainment and living under illusion of free and fair election and free speech etc. They could continue to use USA to enrich themselves beyond belief. Any politician who is part of the establishment is controlled opposition and this racket was going well for over 50 years. And than came the outsider, Trump. They didn't know how to deal with someone so unpredictable.

They try to smear him first, but that just gave him free press. so they rigged the election in 2016, still he won. And they were not going to take changes in 2020 election so they went full in. In the lead up to that, riots they supported with BLM/Antifa and covid measure with draconian laws, deplatforming people etc made people even more interested in voting Trump. But after Trump won again even more impressively they could not allow it so they went full in with blatant tyranny and cheating and laying and propaganda. The mask was completely off. And that is the gift, the legacy Trump left everyone.

For millions of people world wide to be red pilled and unpluged from Matrix and see corruption and how far the rabbit hole goes. This will have far reaching worldview consequences for many years to come. Many are hard to predict but I imagine that it will get worse before it gets better for many. And I guess maybe that is the only way to fight this. We can't pretend its all going to be just normal and normal before Trump was already really really bad, we just didn't know about it.

............................................

QAnon Shaman - Jake Angeli - Interview - ORF

Sounds more like agent provocateur that was trained to infiltrate Q movement and make them a target. I've not seen anyone else talking similar things who looks like him. This is a way for government to send in a highly visible target like this professional actor / agent provocateur, repeat what is said online by the Q and than get arrested. Probably they release him later , but use the incident to crackdown on anyone spreading conspiracy stories. Its a classic. This guy could not get a job at Hollywood so he took any gig that pays well.

“He said he attended those events to spread the word of the QAnon conspiracy theory, which falsely imagines that Trump is investigating corruption and crimes against children committed by high-level politicians,” The Arizona Republic reported.

That is what the establishment is afraid off... people searching for meaning and hope, and inventing Qanon , something that is hard to control as information. But weakness is that Q movement has no central leadership so unlike infiltrating Mafia , you can simply claim you are with Q, say similar things, make trouble and let the propaganda machine controlled by the establishment label Q movement dangers and leverage perception to crack down on anyone they label dangers now.

.............................................

Only a communist would see baning of Triump as a game and not tyranny. But that is how communists think I guess. Actually, let me rephrase that.... a communist would understand the implications of this... only a "useful idiot" would celebrate it who does not understand the implications. But that is what I see with lefties, they think its just Trump and hahaha. They have no clue what it means and that tomorrow it will be them. They have no protection, just an illusion of thinking this is left vs right, not realizing its got nothing to do with that. Its about power, and the moment useful idiots stop being useful they will be the other thing and they too will be oppressed and censured the same way.

In totalitarian communist parties or those that model themselves on it, the system tries to perpetuate itself at the cost of everyone in it. So no one is safe. The concept of loyalty does not exist in communism. Only power and atmosphere of fear and oppression. CCP in China is an example where no has immunity.

That is why people who promote the idea of one side being banned or censured are called useful idiots. Because they are temperarally useful for political reasons, but they are idiots because they think the system they are supporting will reword them because they have been loyal? What folly.

The establishment during 9/11 try to use the "threat" of terrorism to pas the laws for "patriot act" where they can gain more power.

The Patriot Act was written following the September 11 attacks in an effort to dramatically tighten U.S. national security, particularly as it related to foreign terrorism. In general, the act included three main provisions:

  • expanded abilities of law enforcement to surveil, including by tapping domestic and international phones;
  • eased interagency communication to allow federal agencies to more effectively use all available resources in counterterrorism efforts; and
  • increased penalties for terrorism crimes and an expanded list of activities which would qualify someone to be charged with terrorism.

Now we are seeing the propaganda machine calling "American Patriots" terrorists. So they will probably pass a new law leveraging this incident of Capital Hill , "terrorist act" or something, where they can call anyone they don't like a terrorist and without trial and warrant... they would be able to do what CCP does. Oppress anyone in the world they feel like it. Part of this we have seen already during Obama years. Drone assassination of people they have in kill list. No accountability. Labeling people terrorists and putting them in Guantanamo where they can torture and abuse people with no trial indefinably. Look what they did to Julian Assange. Not a terrorist but a threat. In their mind that is how it works.

F. Fürstenberg wrote in 2007 in the New York Times [“Bush’s Dangerous Liaisons”, in connection with the French Revolution – upon the etymology of the word “terrorist”as well:

“… The word was an invention of the French Revolution, and it referred not to those who hate freedom, nor to non-state actors, nor, of course, to ‘Islamofascism’. A ‘terroriste’ was, in its original meaning, a Jacobin leader who ruled France during La Terreur. (Reign of Terror)”

La Terreur. (Reign of Terror) - refers to a period during the French Revolution after the First French Republic was established in which multiple massacres and public executions occurred in response to revolutionary fervor, anti-clerical sentiment, and frivolous accusations of treason by Maximilien Robespierre and his Committee of Public Safety.

Several historians consider the "reign of terror" to have begun in 1793, placing the starting date at either 5 September, June or March (birth of the Revolutionary Tribunal), while some consider it to have begun in September 1792 (September Massacres), or even July 1789 (when the first killing took place), but there is a consensus that it ended with the fall of Maximilien Robespierre in July 1794 as this led to the Thermidorian Reaction.

Between June 1793 and the end of July 1794, there were 16,594 official death sentences in France, of which 2,639 were in Paris.

What we saw with Parler and Trump is the digital equivalent of "Reign of Terror". But how long before it goes offline too.
..............................................

“The Marxians love of democratic institutions was a stratagem only, a pious fraud for the deception of the masses. Within a socialist community there is no room left for freedom.” ― Ludwig Von Mises

“[T]he useful idiots, the leftists who are idealistically believing in the beauty of the Soviet socialist or Communist or whatever system, when they get disillusioned, they become the worst enemies. That’s why my KGB instructors specifically made the point: never bother with leftists. Forget about these political prostitutes. Aim higher. [...] They serve a purpose only at the stage of destabilization of a nation. For example, your leftists in the United States: all these professors and all these beautiful civil rights defenders. They are instrumental in the process of the subversion only to destabilize a nation. When their job is completed, they are not needed any more. They know too much. Some of them, when they get disillusioned, when they see that Marxist-Leninists come to power—obviously they get offended—they think that they will come to power. That will never happen, of course. They will be lined up against the wall and shot.” ― Yuri Bezmenov

On the flip side: Revolution will not be CENTERLIZED. Race to web 3.0 or 4.0 is about to accelerate.

"'They buried us, but they didn't know we were seeds.' - proverb

Parler will become what they advertise themselves to be: the world's town square.

Speak freely and express yourself openly, without fear of being “deplatformed” for your views. Engage with real people, not bots. Parler is people and privacy-focused, and gives you the tools you need to curate your Parler experience.

Right now that is what the lefty techniocatic communist fear the most, so its open season on any political threat.

I think we will see investment in Parler and other platforms, hopefully Slug as well, platform I came to love, by many people who do not support tyranny and it will be oasis in the sea of censorship, and people will have to learn how to decentralize, how to build their own infrastructure and get off large platforms.

And the big tech censorship made many nervous, both world leaders and politicians and business men around the world. tomorrow it could be them, so how do they trust these companies. I'm sure will see exudes and people also using backup platforms. worldwide.

In Trukey they say the tyrant there decided this could be him tomorrow so he is trying to get off platform as well and use domestic apps, but off course for his own wicked ways.

India is trying to pass laws and so does Poland to limit abuse of Big Tech and I'm sure they will also invest in alternative platforms as well. This will have far reaching consequences worldwide.

Go watch "Ghost in the Shell. The stand Alone Complex"

@dd54 Well you know what they say. Map is not the territory.

So far globalists have been doing lot of the work with many people in general population not aware, not caring to know, and not feeling threatened. This made it easy for them. But now its a different story. Many people are aware and they are increasing every day. More and more people are shifting their priorities to either resits, find alternatives and or escape. And global geopolitics is shifting, each country trying to exploit weakness of theirs and improve their position. This already means that lot of things are not going as they are planed out on the map. Because Map is not the territory.

So it seems to me that it will get bad for many yes, but it won't be easy for the globalists either. Revolution will not be centralized or televised. Besides there are lot of black swans out there. Look how much damage Trump has done to their plans. The way they try to get rid of him made them slip the mask and show who they are to the entire world. That alone was not part of the plan, and once one thing is not how you planed, you have to revisit the plan because actions have reactions and right now no amount of planing can control the future, because no one knows for sure what it will be.

2

"IDW.community" is available on both Apple App Store Philippines & Google Play Store Philippines. "Slug.com" is available on Apple App Store Philippines, but not available on Google Play Store Philippines. As long as your phone/tablet iOS/iPadOS/Android OS version is still supported (read: not too old & not yet obsolete).

2

Free speech is no deader than it’s ever been. What on earth makes people think they can say any vile thing they want without consequences?

Indeed. As I've often said, for every action there is a reaction.

2

Free speech may not be dead (yet) but it is getting penned in. When you censor one side and allow free reign to the other, you are strangling free speech. When you actively try and silence once side, and prop up the other, you're strangling free speech. Free speech is about letting each side present their argument, not saying one side can speak and the other needs to be silenced.
Dictatorships always censor, and the censorship is getting worse, in aide of one side of government. We have all seen how biased the media is, the big tech companies are trying to pull the internet in the same direction.

Tom81 Level 8 Jan 10, 2021
2

Gab
Slug
Bitchute
Mewe
Clouthub
Brandnewtube
Rumble
I joined them all- Death to youtube, twitter, facebook, Amazon, Google
THEY ARE TRYING TO KILL FREE SPEECH
BUT WE WILL PERSEVERE PATRIOTS!!!
JOIN ALL

2

75,000,000 people (+) voted for President Trump and he had 88 million followers on Twitter. So on the up side, Trump now has the perfect opportunity to start his own social media platform, Trump brand phones, Tablets, TV channel ect...The possibilities are endless. Twitter, Apple, Facebook may have real competition.
They have made their own bed !!!

Narrell Level 1 Jan 10, 2021
2

Even leftist comedian Tom Walker thinks it was a mistake for Twitter to ban DJT.

"Tiny roll up deodorant"😂

Seriously, I agree with how this will only validate the idea that the left wants to silence all conservatives. I have to say, it hasn't given me a heck of a lot of confidence that they aren't doing just that.

@saramarylop3z Tom is one of those rare leftists who supports freedom of speech.

@pbuck0145 The "non self censoring" comedians/ entertainers are getting rare to find. I actually still like a few precisely for the fact that they don't hold back (on either side). Like John Cleese, Dave Chappelle, and couple others here and there have been fairly consistent in their "everything is free game" type approach.

2

Free Speech is certainly under attack, but TheMiddleWay is correct this is not a 1st amendment issue. The tech giants are certainly corrupt and out of line, and their actions will not help to lower political tensions. Personally I think that 95% of social media is bad for the well-being of our society. It encourages unhealthy comparisons to other people which encourages jealousy and coveting. It also undermines people’s mental health because one is comparing themselves to the way others want to be seen, not necessarily the way things are. You are encouraged to compare yourself to the “best ” of others but mostly ignore the negative things that are often hidden. I think the world would be better off if everyone deleted google, YouTube, Twitter, Facebook. There is some good in these “product’s “, though in reality you are the product that these company are selling.

2

I've read most of the comments and it seems to me that there is massive confusion over what is meant by "free speech". Is a man's oratory, when agitated by extreme anger, freely speaking? Or is one drunk with reason the "free speaker?" Both of these situations are protected under 1A. When 1A was written, most communications were one direction through speeches or newspapers. I got to talk and you got to listen or vice versa. FB and twitter and the like are not speaking, their customers are. Through no fault of their own, the so called "Big Tech" has been put in a position of not only regulating speech, but who gets to listen to whatever is said, mostly through political pressure. This is entirely new and it is more like "free communication" rather than free speech. I'm not surprised this has become a major issue. Are we ready for government to regulate "Big Tech, tell them what they can allow and what they can't?" I actually think "Big Tech" would favor this, since I don't think they want to be in the position of having to do it. I can "free speak" all day long, but if nobody is listening or can listen, then what's the point? The motive is clear: a whole lot of people want to be able to persuade a whole lot of other people to their way of thinking. Maybe that's a bad idea and we would be a whole lot better off if we just let people decide for themselves and found a more productive way of spending our time. But we are far too full of ourselves to let that happen. So, we are relegated to working through this problem the best we can. My prediction: it will turn out badly.

TyKC Level 7 Jan 10, 2021
1

How can we channel the spirit of the 2nd amendment for communications?
Free speech platforms are under attack and it seems we have to shift to having a private
web page. Manage your social
media connections yourself. Build your own friends list with links to other private
web pages. Conduct your newsfeed yourself, and with a private web page you have total
control over customizing your feed. No ads!

Your private web page has to be hosted outside the USA, in a MAGA-friendly country.
Otherwise it will be deplatformed. We can expect that the oligarchy will respond by
building an internet wall around the USA.

We also need servers outside the USA to host large-scale chats.

We need a smartphone that accepts an open-source operating system. Android and Apple
will kill any free-speech communication app.

The left may even attack communications within the USA. We need ham radios and
walkie talkies, and they should have encryption. The left will likely respond with
jamming.

Love the messenger pigeon.

We need a unifying chat client. Meebo was a chat client that unified all other
chat clients. It packed into one tidy window all of Yahoo, MSN, AIM, ICQ,
MySpaceIM, Facebook Chat, and Google Talk. It was rich in features, such as
chat rooms. Google acquired Meebo in 2012 and killed it, assigning the
programmers to Google+ chat. Google shut down Google+ in 2019.

@jaymaron You should write an article detailing free speech options for people.
[lexic.co]

@ZuzecaSape Great idea. There's lots of great posts on IDW about platforms, and the posts make great ammunition for an article. Science journals feature review articles, which consolidate the
state of the art. The IDW Magazine has this spirit. I welcome anyone to message me with content. I will post a review article in the Culture War group.

What additional topics do people want to see review articles about?

1

The alternatives I know of are Reddit and this site. I don't know if Gab and MeWe are included in the internet shutout or not.

1

Hate to tell you people voting "yes"... but there is a big difference between numbers of sites and wide coverage...
Lots of small bubbles do not wide coverage make.

1

Free speech isn't dead if you are a Progressive Left Woke Denialist. Being anything else excludes you from freedom of speech.

1

Learning can be a slow process.

The United States is a super state. It's too big. It needs to split up, and will. Then we will all be happier and actually get along better.

Digital separation is a prelude to this real world separation.

The die is cast.

1

The problem is hypocrisy, plain and simple. If you need more explanation than that its not worth trying to explain it as lack of constructive intellectual knowledge eludes you.

Marc07 Level 7 Jan 10, 2021

Hello. If you mean hypocrisy on both sides, then yes, I agree.

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