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Why are you voting for your candidate?

With just days away from the election, now is your last chance to make a case for why you support your candidate. Is your vote more about opposing the candidates and party of the other side? How do you think the future will be different depending on who wins?

How many people were you able to convince to vote for your candidate?

  • 8 votes
  • 5 votes
  • 1 vote
  • 2 votes
  • 9 votes
  • 8 votes
Admin 8 Nov 1
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18

Back in the hoary days of high school, when giants roamed the land (Caddies, Lincolns and Imperials; the true dinosaurs), I started watching and reading William F Buckley. From him I learned conservatives were eloquent and charming. When Reagan came along I learned they were dignified, and sometimes folksy, too.

Trump was none of the above. I felt he was treating the Republican Party like a self actualization toy. I was appalled when he got the nomination. As the 2016 campaign progressed, however, I decided I wanted another Clinton administration about as much as I wanted a lap dance from a sweaty sumo wrestler. So I voted for Trump.

This campaign I voted for Trump rather than against his opponent. I want more of the same. The bravura economy (I haven't seen those kind of numbers since the sixties). The steady approval of conservative judges. The persistence of his efforts against illegal immigration. The steady rebuilding of the mlitary. And no new wars. I've sent two of my children to wars and it was terrifying each time.

The actions of the mainstream media have only reinforced my choice. They are uniform in opinion and phrasing. A Greek chorus of bile and spite. They had a liberal monoculture in the seventies, but they allowed a few conservative voices. None are allowed today. If somebody strays from the party line they suffer a tsunami of outrage and then are expelled.

And so now it's, "Alea iacta est." The die is cast, let's see how it plays out.

Well said!

Howdy @Tarpon,

Thank you. Praise from the praiseworthy is the highest gift of all.

12

In 2016, I voted for Johnson as I felt the other candidates were flawed. When Trump was elected, my original thought was, like in business, sometimes a outsider is needed to disrupt a static system. While I've a tech Ph.D. and been successful in business, I grew up in one of the fly-over, blue collar states and understand the sense of outsider that non-elites feel. Trump felt like a Molotov cocktail thrown into the establishment.

Today, both candidates represent a clearly different future for this country.

To me, the Democrat party now focuses on identity politics where each group frames this country as irredeemable, unfair, and oppressive in their own way... regardless of the affirmation of equality of opportunity in civil rights, women's rights, Gay/Lesbian rights, and even trans rights. I am concerned that the increased vilification of the American experiment will lead to a new level of unfairness and oppression if the government is used to enforce punitive retribution of past sins.

On the other hand, I feel that Trump's vision of American is aspirational and inclusive. I realize that my liberal friends groan when inclusive and Trump are used in the same sentence. I use inclusive in the sense of MLK where a person's good character trumps their immutable identity. In a time of the aftereffects of globalization, secularization, demographic change, and an quickly approaching economic slowdown, a country's success depends on its people's ability to care about others regardless of identity and to share a common bond.

I am, however, very disappointed that Trump doesn't believe in man-made climate change and his communication style is polarizing to say the least. That being said, he has my vote.

Admin Level 8 Nov 1, 2020

Can you speak a little to your success and failures at changing people's mind to your point of view?

@TheMiddleWay Unfortunately, the recent years and this election seem to be driven by the reptilian brain - fear and outrage overpower critical reasoning. Then again, with news and social media unreliable sourcing of information, it's really hard for the general public to make sense. With this site, and specifically this group, I have tried to pose questions that frame issues in a way to get people to think differently. Based on responses, there seems to be some variation on point of few.

Personally, I have had some success getting my friends and family to see some of the dangers from the progressive left. I have also found that many Democrats over 50 don't realize that the things championed by the left today are of a different nature from the social campaigns of the past (up to gay marriage equality). Many are unaware that Harris and Biden are also very different. I've had a number of friends contact me to donate to the Harris campaign only to learn of my concerns. "I agree with you but..." is a common reply.

@Admin I especially agree on the left of the past and present championing different issues. My late father was a lifelong registered Democrat, and had he still been living I know he would have abandoned his Party long ago.

If there was any indication that the technocrats were competent in anything but some narrow field then maybe we could deal with global warming. As it is it is a mute point.

8

As an Oregonian the tacit endorsement of the violence in PDX has been appalling . Kamala showed her true colors when she said she would use campaign funds to bail out “peaceful protesters” in PDX. our protest have not been peaceful. and our DA won't even hold the most violent individuals accountable. Unfortunately those who are peaceful simply seem to lend political cover to the violence that erupts nightly in Portland.

I used to be a Dem. They left me behind after Trump got elected when they went batshit insane. I thought Trump would Trash America when he got elected, I was wrong. Instead its been The democrat elect, media and now the rioting individuals acting like violent insolent children that are clearly burning this country down. They have waged a win at all costs campaign to remove Trump, but when the costs happen to be the 1-5 amendments and Democracy as we know it... Thats too much “cost” for this guy. The American constitution has been the greatest asset to free humanity in history and to destroy it to remove one man for his personality flaws leaves me without words. TRUMP 2020

RobD1 Level 7 Nov 1, 2020

It is amazing to me how many Democrats think Trump has done the things that they are doing. Reminds me of an ex girl friend. Unlike her, I hope the country make up and get along together.

@Admin isn't that the entire Trump playbook though? Projection projection projection. Accuse your opponents of engaging in corruption and foreign deals while you yourself are doing it? Accuse others of having a mental decline when you show signs of it yourself? Make fun of people being old when you are old? Criticize someone's weight when you are overweight? Complain about being treated unfairly and people being too mean while you spend every day insulting people and calling them names? Attack someone playing golf when you play golf non-stop? Accuse people of nepotism when you are the king of nepotism?

Interesting perspective. I appreciate the value you place on 1-5.

If you believe she actually supports that I've got a bridge to sell you.

@JacksonNought your lack of self awareness is simply stunning.

@RobD1 please point out where I am wrong?

@WilyRickWiles she did it. we have the tape. she also stood with michael Blake and denounced the cops even after the police report revealed that hr had raped that women and was in the process of stealing her car with the victims children in it. So yeah bud I’ll call your bluff and buy that bridge. you clearly didn’t read the deed.

Hunter Biden laptop much? buresma? CEFC 800mil. russian hookers chinese child prostitutes. Obama, “I think we should leverage hunter on this deal”. Not only no denial that the laptops weren’t hunters but Hunters lawyer demands them back in writing... You two have this habit of comming to a forum made up of highly intelligent people sharing outside of mainstream sources of information and treating us like your average CNN viewer. like I said. The lack of self awareness is astounding.

8

The Overton Window. The left is so far left we have to stabilize the country. Seems to be an attempt to throw the baby out with the bath water. Biden should be in a geriatric Ward. AOC, Omar, etc, etc. As long as there are people like this on the left I will vote a Republican ticket regardless. This is the most important election in my lifetime.

Tarpon Level 7 Nov 1, 2020

Yes, it does feel like a critical juncture.

How about we do that with all the boomers.

8

I'm voting for Trump because, despite his many flaws, our pre-covid days were very good, and I believe deep down he truly cares about this country. I think Biden cares 99% about Biden. Harris cares about this country only if she can reshape it into God knows what. I believe Trump views minorities as people, not votes. And at the end of the day, which party respects the liberties provided by our constitution? The answer for me is clear.

8

I'm voting For Trump because two words. "Intelligence" community. Time and time again the incompetent puppet masters have tangled our strings. If ever there was a ready made puppet it's Joe Biden. Somebody has got to stand between the incompetent bureaucratic state and the people.

If I thought the technocrats were competent I could be convinced to go with the cultural establishment but look at the mess in California, Greece, Italy, France, Spain, and everywhere else soft socialism has been tried. There is no mechanism in government as it exists today on which to build a hierarchy of competence. No competence, no civilization.

I really need to read more history on how countries decline... has there been an example of one pulling themself back?

@Admin
One to keep and eye on: Chile just voted to completely abolish and redo their Constitution by a large majority (80%).

Unlike the USA where the Constitution is viewed as a second bible, with a 200-year-old document is seen as literally relevant today as it was then much like the 2000 year old Bible is still seen as literally relevant today, in Chile when something doesn't work we are not afraid to scrap it and start over again.

We saw this with electing Allende when capitalism wasn't working, by Pinochet when communism wasn't working, by the popular vote to oust Pinochet when dictatorship wasn't working, and now again when the Constitution set up 30 years ago isn't working.

And the amazing thing is that throughout it all, Chile has consistently outperformed and been more stable than just about every other Central and South American country for the past half century at least.

The way to pull yourself up, in my opinion and in my study of my home country, is to not be afraid to let the past go in defference to an unpredictable but hopefully better future

@TheMiddleWay

As much as I do not care for Chile,
Theey are better at resisting foreign interference in elections compared to USA where we deny it is even happening in our own nation as we do it to others.

[en.m.wikipedia.org]

@Admin

We tend to think of history as being divisible into periods but like taxonomy some aspects of classification are arbitrary or a matter of convenience. For example we talk of the fall of the Roman empire but it never really fell. In the West it was replaced by the holy Roman empire and continue in Constantinople until 1453. In an odd way it continues with the Roman Catholic Church with the pope as emperor. We can pinpoint more accurately the end of the Roman republic, from Wikipedia

"The final defeat of Mark Antony alongside his ally and lover Cleopatra at the Battle of Actium in 31 BC, and the Senate's grant of extraordinary powers to Octavian as Augustus in 27 BC – which effectively made him the first Roman emperor – thus ended the Republic"

Just as all life has a common ancestor thus making the divisions of taxonomy an abstract concept human cultural evolution has a continuous line of decent. In this way you can see the republic of the United States as a continuation of the Roman Republic by way of the British Empire and the British parliamentary system.

Ignorant people will suggest that the constitution is outdated. That it is the product of the less sophisticated minds of the 18th century. Ignoring the fact that reduced selection has lowered general intelligence since that time there already existed thousands of years of human experience from which the founders were able to draw from. Because of specialization it is unlikely that anyone living today has the same scope of insight into the human condition.

One aspect of evolution including cultural evolution that is confusing is that it has direction. That direction is what we call time. You can't reverse time and you can't restore an earlier stage of evolution. You can have convergent evolution. The problem is the memes of culture replicate rapid, and are easily transmitted. It's hard to trace where an idea comes from. The most destructive idea to our republic is that it is a democracy. Democracy is mob rule and the founders knew this from history. The mob in the House was to be checked by the Senate. The wisdom of this structure was recently demonstrated by the Senate rejecting the impeachment of Trump. The mob was stirred up by corrupt media covering for corrupt politicians in the persons of Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden. Had we retained the appointment of Senators instead of direct election it may had not even been a matter of partisan politics. That is of course if the mob had not already taken control of the state legislatures.

I have more to say but the short answer is once you go down the direct democracy path it's hard to see how the course can be corrected.

Um... Socialists and the intelligence state aren't friends.

7

Have grand children graduating from college soon, and more growing up. Hoping that there is a job available for them. Hoping my children's retirement plans have prospered. Want all of them to have a safe environment to live in.

6

I voted for Trump because the establishment hates him and I hate the establishment.

That’s an amazing coincidence in my voting history .. i have been voting libertarian since I can remember voting because of that same treason .. until Trump or coarse ,,, I would have voted for B. Carson and now I’m glad Mr Carson is helping American way better than what Mr Castro did in his office ,,, 80 million un accounted for under his HUD watch ,,, and that’s personal because I love SA

6

I don't know if I convinced anyone or not. I did share my views with whomever asked, and quite a few people did ask. I'm sure a few of them may have been swayed by my reasoning, if they weren't already leaning in the same direction before.

I didn't vote for President Trump in 2016, and most everyone I know didn't either, mostly for the same reasons I didn't. We just didn't trust him. However, I am voting for him this time, as are most of the people I know who felt as I did in 2016. I may have convinced some of them to make this change, but I'm pretty sure most of them were coming to that conclusion just as I was. There are many conservative Evangelicals like us, by the way, who didn't vote for President Trump in 2016 but who are adamant about voting form his this year. We feel that he has earned our vote by being more conservative in governing than many of the "conservatives" we had voted for in the past. There are still some things about him we do not like, but we seem to agree with most all of his policies.

Politics are trade offs... I might be afraid of someone I agree with too much 😉

Your closing comment is one I hope independents consider going into Tuesday. There are a lot of things people don't like about Trump, but I'm at that point where all I care about is what is best for our country. It's like the old story about needing a plumber...if a pipe is busted and my house is flooding, I don't care if the best plumber in town smells like a cigar, weighs 300 lbs, hasn't bathed in a week and is flaunting 8 inches of butt crack. I want the best guy for the job.

@Admin And hopefully that keeps us aimed with a healthy fear

Jesus's famous words: "obey my athoritah."

@WilyRickWiles I think that was Cartman, but I digress.

6

The reason no one is able to convince any one else on social media is right there in your question:

How many people did you convince to vote for your candidate?
Not, did you change your mind due to social media?

Everybody is here only to voice their opinions. Not to learn anything, or have their thoughts tested or minds changed.

It says a lot about our modern culture, we know better, in the face of all evidence. That is why no one here accepts when they are wrong or made a mistake... they stubbornly, ad hominem attack or just leave the question unanswered.

And that is why the world is getting more agitated, countries more split and people less understanding.

Hanno Level 7 Nov 1, 2020

Solid point.

Good point! I could have asked "did you change your mind due to social media?" but since it was a question about ones reason for voting, I went with the one I did. Political views seem to change slowly... even generationally.

Speak for yourself. I see the validity of your point but I personally learn something new almost every time I come to Slug and it's the only social media I use. I don't really think I have any original thoughts about much of this stuff so I rarely, if ever, post anything. I just reply, but I do think that kind of interaction is a valid part of the learning process.

"Everybody is here only to voice their opinions. Not to learn anything, or have their thoughts tested or minds changed."

I sure hope that's not true, because the suggestion that this was a different kind of social media is exactly why I started coming here. If not, it'll be a short stay.

I'd like to add that the least important of your criteria is "minds changed". If you have your ideas challenged and in the course of doing so you learn something, it should be considered a success.

Really?

It has never been otherwise.

Do you think people in the early 19th century convinced anyone to change their minds about slavery?

Do you think the Washington establishment treated Lincoln significantly different than Trump?

This idea of a middle way where people can be reasoned with shows an amazing ignorance of history. Democracy has not been considered a practical form of government by people who know history since Athens. That is why we live in a republic. Those that don't know history are doomed to repeat it.

@Geofrank and @opusaug

There are very few of us who are even capable of seeing the other side, what to say change our minds.

@Tracycoyle changes the way I view the gender issue, @WileyRickWiles exposed me to Democratic Socialism so that I almost understand it. @TheMiddleway showed me that I need to do a lot more to get my ideas understood by others.
@Ithink and @Edgework taught me the that I don’t necessarily agree with all conservatives on all issues even if we agree on most. @Corjova taught me to think like a Christian again. @Naomi taught me to laugh everyday at the mundane... so important.
Many more, but it will bore you.

For those that want to learn, there is much opportunity here, however you need to be willing.

@Hanno Thank you!

@wolfhnd

One would have hoped that with freely available information, we would have learn about our past mistakes. We did not.
Before 1990, information was limited... people were legitimately ignorant. What we have now discovered is that people are wilful ignorant.

One would hope that we would be educating ourselves that there needs to be a different way... yet the very people preaching tolerance are the ones pushing intolerance.

The US is heading for civil war, and due to the global nature of our modern world, this will spill over everywhere else. Hence my interest in US politics... else I would not have cared other than the entertainment value.

We are ignorant of our present. How can we even begin to hope we will learn from history?
That nihilistic viewpoint only brings darkness. We need to be different. And it has to be us who do it.
We cannot keep on repeating history.

@Hanno

That is why we are voting for Trump, to stop repeating history.

@Hanno No sir it won't bore me. All these people you named have taught me as well. Name me some more I may have missed. Thanks.

5

As a Canadian, I don’t get a vote, but if I did, I could never support Biden-Harris. Kamala Harris is so woke she smeared Biden as a racist in the debates, knowing full well that it was a lie. That Biden — who faithfully served America’s first black president — could be a racist is ludicrous, but Harris clearly showed how progressives are willing to smear anyone when it serves them, even if it damages the country.

Harris and Donald Trump are equally ruthless. The difference is that Harris attempts to hide her motives under loud giggles and a false veneer of empathy for the disadvantaged. Don’t take my word for it. Look at her record, especially as a prosecutor.

So I judge on three factors:

Fake News
The elite establishment, the opposition, the news media and popular culture have waged all-out war on Trump from the minute he rode down the escalator. He was criticized on demeanour more than policy, and the criticism was always misleading and distorted. Everyone knew critics were unfair, but felt it was okay because Trump was always described and seen in the most vile terms possible.

Trump’s Demeanour
Trump is an outsider and still refuses to behave or speak like a politician. To younger progressives he’s a dinosaur from the era of the Playboy Mansion and the three martini lunch. He speaks like an over-the-top salesman who sees his product as the biggest, most beautiful and best ever. He’s a raw, New York street fighter who seeks to crush his enemies. He’s an odd anachronism in the age of woke post-structuralism, and his refusal to play the political game by the rules makes him his own worst enemy.

The Policies
Dispite the rough edges, Trump kept his promises with an impressive list of achievements, led by traditional conservative goals around a strong economy, tax cuts, employment, deregulation, judicial appointments, souther border security, homeland security and a strong military.

He crushed ISIS and avoided new foreign wars. Under Trump there was relative calm in the Middle East, after Obama disasters in handling Libya and Syria. Iran was quiet, the US embassy in Israel was finally moved to Jerusalem, and the historic Israel-UAE-Bahrain deal was all but ignored in the media. Trump became the only modern President to take on China, contained Russian moves on their neighbours, forced NATO allies to start paying their dues, tamed the UN, and even kept North Korea in check.

Trump was far from perfect. And while he lacked the great communication skills of Ronald Reagan, he delivered several historic speeches on western and American values (eg Eastern Europe and Mount Rushmore), which were either ignored by the media, or distortedly reported.

The Democrats have skillfully controlled the whole campaign by defining it as a referendum on Covid, which has robbed Trump of his booming economy and made him look weak. If Biden-Harris are elected — and it’s looking more and more likely — America will continue to cede ground to post modernists and post-structuralists who hate the very idea of the republic and liberal western values.

Conservatives must coalesce around a new generation of leadership or the country, and the Enlightenment Project is lost.

GeeMac Level 8 Nov 1, 2020

Ruthlessness , I love it! And I agree , especially at times!

5

watching the second 30 minute segment of 60 minutes which is essentially a Democratic advertisement, it's shocking that a formerly reputable show has sunk to such depth and is now fine with repeating known lies and blaming everything that goes wrong in the US no matter how large, small or disconnected on Donald Trump. Sad for so many reasons.

60 Minutes has gone completely woke.

Is that the interview where Trump got his feelings hurt because the questions were "too tough" and now his supporters are sending death threats to Stahl and her family?

@JacksonNought yeah, when Trump pointed out they asked Biden his favourite favour of ice cream. 😂😂😂

“President Biden, we’re under attack!”
“Come on man, what flavour ice cream do we have?”

@GeeMac he cried that he couldn't handle anything other than softball questions. He acted like a baby basically saying he could only handle the "ice cream" questions. He is the goddamn President of the United States, he should be able to handle a critical question without complaining that people are mean to him.

Would you prefer the ego-stroking questions of Ingraham, Pirro, Hannity, Dobbs, and Rion?

@JacksonNought I’d prefer a president to say , yeah ,, that private email server I knew about , I’ll tell you the truth.

@JacksonNought so Mr. Biden are you a dog person or a cat person? Take your time with that one, sir.

@Callnote ivanka's?

You voted for him.

5

" trickle - down " economics
still does not work.

Scare tactics such as:
" Men in dresses"
" fetal stem cells"
And
" drugged up hippies"

are not enough to convince
me to vote for Republicans.

Remember when even
#Breitbart knew about
Russian Confederates ?

[snopes.com]

Fear and outrage seems to rule the day on both sides recently 😟

Trickle down economics saw my income increase by 40% during the Trump administration. In fact everyone at my local branch got a raise as the labor market tightened. Prior to Covid we were even looking at purchasing a new property and building a larger warehouse that would employ even more people plus the construction workers, skilled tradesman and vendors necessary to build it.

I used to buy that line but now that Ive experienced it not so much. I will say my wife who works for a local Union didn't see her wage rise any faster for what little representation they provide. just the same seniority based step wage increase she would get no matter what.

its amazing what wealth can be created whenever incentives are allowed to work

@RobD1 , those are skilled jobs.
Training is still not accessible or free to American citizens .

I agree with your point that we should fire all school teachers who teach nonsense that makes it harder to employ students.

However, my point still stands : "TRICKLE DOWN" DOES NOT WORK FOR TEMPORARY NON-GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS.

@Admin , I did not like it when Obama let crooks out of jail and I hated it even more when Trump released a infamous drug lord from prison.

I guess when Trump was complaining about foreign rapist drug dealers stealing jobs from American citizens , I guess he meant this citizen.

This is the blood on the hands of apatthetic voters who fail to do background checks on all candidates ( and propositions).

[caselaw.findlaw.com]

@Mikewee777 those jobs I referred to at my local company were entry salesman and warehouseman along with retail counter people hired off the streets. in fact our local hotels became so competitive for labor this year that they were and are still offering $15/hr + $50 just to take the interview in what has been a depressed rural economy since 1989. entry level logging and mill work jobs hit $23-$25/ hr starting wage last year and have since rebounded in order to meet the home remodel and commercial building that is still happening from pre-Covid deals. Call center jobs in my town upped the ante to $18 starting with benefits. If it trickled down to my PoDunk town I can say it definitely trickles down.

in fact the only labor sectors I saw sit wage static were Union government, education and healthcare jobs. ironically it seems the trickle down worked the least for hard left leaning labor sectors.

It would be easy to dismiss if I hadn't just lived it and worked on a Business to business job hearing the same tune everywhere I went

@RobD1 You live in a much better town in a Libertarian state that is trying to sue me for $5000 over a typo when I used to live there.
Fuck Oregon.

It is why I moved back to California which has a far more forgiving mover's tax by comparison.

Also there is no such thing as " entry level " employment anywhere. They still expect you to know things only schools can train despite parental interference .

@Mikewee777 I agree my state is fucked, but seriously all of those jobs I listed and the wages they were offering are real life examples from real people literally hiring kids straight out of high school. In medford electrician apprentices were being hired at $45 an hour plus a bonus after the first year and they still couldnt get people to fill those jobs. no experience necessary.

now if you went to school for some bullshit degree in some market sector that required it and especially in the government sector your were SOL. but basic entry labor jobs saw a huge boost in wages in my area in the last 4 years. a person just needed to look

@RobD1 Being a electrician requires advanced math skills.

When I lived in Redmond Oregon in 2006 , all I could find was a low paying job as a grocery worker and college was still too expensive to even attempt.

Oregon is still a racist hell hole. I am not white enough for those chain-smoking cunts. They claim to be against sales tax but I dare you to try buying a cigarette there , they will treat you like some sort of drug dealer if you are the " wrong" skin tone.

5

I have a Trump basher friend. I can't actually say I convinced him to vote for Trump. In truth, I think the reality of the situation finally penetrated his awareness and convinced him without my help; in early voting he said he voted for Trump. My vote is about supporting President Trump. It is not about supporting the Republican party. The only reason he has any support from the Republican party is that too many of the voters they require to maintain power do support the president. With that in mind I think that four more years of Trump will not be enough to rescue the American republic from the failings of democracy. When the law itself is subverted to favor one demographic over another the cause is lost. When governments fail - or fail you- you better know how to take care of yourself. I love the picture but I'm pretty sure that right hand path is just a scenic detour that slowly curves back to join the original tragic way.

Kind of feels like this...

Im afraid that nothing short of a Trump landslide has the power to save us in the next 4 years. the rejection has to be so resounding that it drops the leftists down in their tracks. otherwise the window gets pushed even further

@RobD1, @Admin Yeah it does.

I bet Q was involved!

5

Huge difference on social media vs. in person.

In social media, I had no success.

Of the three major social media sites I frequent, FB, agnostic.com, and slug.com.... agnostic is heavy left and thus most all voting for Biden, slug is heavy right and thus most all voting for the current administration... and my FB leans mostly left but I have quite a few right friends.

So using my FB as the most likely to change, I found that it was impossible to shift people away from the current administration and into Biden. Talks of policy were constantly muddled not by evidence or research, but talking points and quips. Biden wants to end all fracking; no he does. Biden wants socialism; no he doesn't. Biden is just a stand-in for Harris; no he isn't. This was compounded by a general inability to have a conversation without logical fallacies, namely ad hominem ("you must be an idiot to support that" ), strawman ("Biden wants to destroy the oil industry" ), and others. But this is generally par for the course on social media so it's no entirely surprising.

In my personal life however I had more success.

My parents voted for the current administration in 2016. They are very devout Roman Catholics and live those principle. Many times I had to rebuff them when they supported Trump's more unchristian views. A good example was when Trump was congratulating the man that punched the Hillary supporter at one of his 2016 rallies. My father was making excuses for Trump's support of said action and I had to pull the WWJD card, reminding him that Jesus would NEVER condone such violence. Same thing with the "grab them by the pussy" comment. Regardless of the veracity of that comment, I had to remind him that the Bible doesn't condone talking about people that way.

The real nail on the coffin though was COVID. My father is a retired nephrologist and I'm in radiation oncology. As such, we both have a strong commitment to science and medicine and a healthy respect for expert advice. The way that the current administration handled COVID was the final straw. He could not abide by the downplaying and inaction of the current administration. So when I reminded him that Biden would handle things more like him and I would handle things, listening to experts, following the science, he flipped and will now vote Biden.

A similar story played out at work.

My profession is very conservative. I think it's because we earn a lot of money and thus want to protect it with a strong stock market and low taxes. But all that took second place when the favoring of the economy over the science by the current administration put our patients at risk, our work at risk, and we started seeing more and more patients and loved ones dying because they didn't take COVID seriously enough, listened to the administration that it wasn't as deadly, wasn't as contagious as all that. That was the final straw for my colleagues and now most, if not all, my colleagues who voted for the current administration in 2016 will vote for Biden.

So what role did I have in these flips?

Hard to tell because I feel that the current administration did it to themselves, they didn't need ME telling my father and colleagues how they didn't allgn with our moral or scientific principles. But I feel maybe I could have been a catalyst. Maybe by showing that it was "ok" to be a son supporting Biden or a co-worker supporting Biden they were more prone to engage in conversation, air out their concerns, and find a sympathetic, calm, rational, educated sounding board in me that allowed them to think things through and come to the same conclusion I did.

4

I did not specifically "electioneer." I have carefully spoken the truth as best I know, when I sensed a receptive mind. That did not happen very often recently.

You encountered a receptive mind? I must be hanging around the wrong crowd.

@coalburned, not very often!

4

Ok my vote is more about opposition. I don't just oppose one candidate but the whole electoral system itself. This system fights tooth and nail in my opinion to keep the public from having as many choices as possible in many elections. Also living in a closed primary state I'm forced as many others to register for one of the main two party's in order to participate at all in the primarys. There are four people running for president (more in some states) but only two were allowed in the debates. Why is this always considered fair and accepted as normal? I know my daughter is voting for Howie H. (Green) she switched from Biden but i won't decide myself till just before i walk in to vote.

Hello. Do you think proportional representation might work in your country?

I thought the moderator was the 3rd debater 😉 I guess all political systems have flaws... perhaps rank voting could help?

@Naomi I honestly don't know. Maybe? It works in a parliamentary system but were so different from that?

@Grandoodle I don't know either. Someone said that proportional representation would not be compatible with the US constitution. In theory, I think it is a good idea; fairer on minor political parties.

@Naomi Considering what human beings are, terribly flawed, I do not believe any governmental system designed by man can possibly work over an extended period of time. Any government must have people as rule makers and rule enforcers; my gosh, even anarchy requires that. There has only been one man in the entire history that the most important person in His life was Himself. How many years has it taken the American republic to become corrupt to such an extent that it cannot maintain justice and liberty for its people? Every form of human government has eventually lead to failure just as the grand American experiment has.

In my country we've had as many as six presidential candidates running at the same time, with the winner getting less than 30% of the votes. I tell you, elections like those are the worst. More choices translates to more chaos and less value for the country.

Hello lawrenceblair. One foreign correspondent (he is European, I think) said that he's never known any country as extremely polarised as America. Whenever he is in America, he asks himself if he is reporting from one of the oldest democratic countries or from a fallen state. 😟

4

But now that trunalimunumaprzure
has been explained I might try again.

Rick-A Level 8 Nov 1, 2020
4

So many reasons, but more than anything, illegal immigration. If you don’t have borders, you don’t have a nation. President Trump supports America and the Americans who live here. Biden supports letting anyone come to America from anywhere, and giving them access to food, healthcare, and housing, despite Americans going hungry, being sick, or being homeless.

The security inside the nation. President Trump doesn’t support violent criminals like antifa, a large contingent of blm, and revcom, who for the past five months have caused almost 2 billion dollars in damage to the country, are still rioting in parts of the country to this day, and who have promised to continue to riot (indeed, they’re not boarding up storefronts due to President Trump supporters). Biden and other leftist politicians as well as leftist apologizers, however, encourage uprisings and have dismissed these criminals as “ideas,” despite the almost 2B in damage to the country.

Several people I care about who either voted D or didn’t vote in the last election will be voting for President Trump, which pleases me greatly (I’d still love em all either way). I didn’t have to say or do anything, though. They simply contrasted the President’s actions with Biden and the left’s actions during this shitty year and are voting accordingly.

Go whitey!

@WilyRickWiles good one, bro!

@WilyRickWiles ...and I guess that tells us almost everything we need to know about you...if we didn't already. Play that race card!

2

The admins could try this poll:

Would you support a rogue right wing US special forces unit conducting extra-legal kidnappings and secret detentions of Marxists in academia, overtly Leftist politicians, Deep State operators and Big Tech Socialists who suppress free speech?

( ) Yes
( ) No
( ) Only if there are no loose ends.

Just to see what falls when you shake the tree 😁

Let them goto to court and face the same consequences we have all been facing and I’m happy

@Callnote
Ideally, yes. But what if the case falls on the lap of an activist judge? One who would dismiss the case, or give the perp just a month of community service for organizing a riot that burned buildings down?

Perhaps this topic is better suited for after the election. My primary goal is to help avoid the need for such ideas.

@Admin
I guess you're right. Sowe. You deserve to be admin.

2

I did a write-in vote. I voted for Lawrence L. Blair for president. Voting lesser of two evils has never been my thing; the last presidential candidate I voted for was Chuck Balwin, Constitutional Party in 2008, I believe it was. The only other candidate to receive my vote was John F. Kennedy. My vote is precious to me, too precious to sell for empty promises.

In our system, any vote not for one leading candidate is the same as a vote for the other. Apparently you unintentionally voted for Biden, without realizing it. I would call that a waste of your precious vote.

@TimTuolomne I was thinking about this very thing earlier today when I thought back to 2016 and considered a write-in vote. But days before the election I realized that taking away a vote for Trump was essentially giving one to Hillary, and that, for me, was unthinkable. Trump has proven himself more than capable, even if his methods are maddening at times. I'll have no hesitation voting for him again.

@TimTuolomne Taking a glance at the Constitution and the founding documents I do not find anywhere that ours was to be a nation where one was to be required to vote for the hand-picked candidates of the PTB. Not even logic or the all-important need for self-preservation dictate such a course of action. However I suppose government schooling with its lack of education in logic, reason, common sense, and the Bible probably does lead one to believe that one must go along to get along. Conform, one must conform. Sorry, can't do it. Conscience dictates otherwise.

@lawrenceblair. I said nothing about being required to vote. Apparently the consequences of voting for a third candidate in a two party system is lost on you, as well as my comment, which you seem to have misread.

@TimTuolomne I read and understood your post, I am not senile . . . yet. LOL Someday, probably I will be, but not quite yet. I understood your point about the consequences perfectly. You claim a vote for a third party or a write-in is a wasted vote, I understand why you believe this. Most people do, it is kind of a mantra these days and has been so for probably a hundred years or more. A wasted vote, you say; I would say that a vote for the hand-picked candidates of two corrupt parties controlled by the powerful is a wasted vote. This nation has been going downhill as long as I have lived on this earth. The populace has been following your advice as to the necessity of voting as told and what has been the result? Corruption of the government and nation. Your advice would fit perfectly into the script of 1984.

@lawrenceblair, Perhaps Australia does not have a two party system. America does, and voting a third candidate here is practically speaking equal to support for the weaker candidate. It is not rocket science.

Low voter turnout tends to encourage corruption of government. I believe it is mandatory to vote in Australia, correct? And yet I hear that many protest by submitting blank ballots. Same thing. It gives every politician the signal that no one is watching the cookie jar, and it gets raided. That also is not rocket science.

@TimTuolomne
You said; "It gives every politician the signal that no one is watching the cookie jar, and it gets raided. That also is not rocket science." Voting in a corrupt election system gives the corrupt politicians the silly idea that the people are a bunch of dumb sheep and will vote for Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, or Bozo the Clown if the party leaders decide to run them. Hmm, I wonder which would be the lesser of the evils in that election. Which one would you vote for? You play their game by their rules with them owning all the referees; well it ain't rocket science.

@lawrenceblair. We disagree.

2

Who knows would be my poll answer... Most people who are tribal voters will never change no matter how logical and reasonable your arguments are anyway.

2

The reason I voted for trump in 2016, and the main reason, and I let everybody know, and ask them to do so if there is a chance,
I voted for trump the first time because he was not a active politician, and he did not care whether or not the republicans backed him or not.
We need more people running for office that are disconnected with politics, that could focus more on the country than what other politicians are sticking in their own pockets like hilary and obama. And every other politician.
I believe only low income people, middle class, and people with a yearly income of less than a $150,000 should be able to be elected into the house of representatives and the senate, and only have a term limit of 3 years, then are no longer eligible to run for congress every again.
That's my opinion, 🙄

Derf Level 4 Nov 1, 2020

Interesting idea. The Romans had their senate made up of specific classes of people.

So...uh that would disqualify Trump unless you're saying that he is in poverty because of his high debt levels.

@WilyRickWiles the president is not seated in congress, he is commander in chief, though he should not agree on either house or senate unless they come together and make solutions, if they can't, he should have final say, Or not, im still not sure which way to go on that one, but ideas from alot us, can fix our governing bodies that have broke themselves and each other. Our presidents can't be carrer politicians though most of congress is. That is the difference, and the main problem.
Only my opinion, though I agree with what others have to say on this, unless the people fix the government, the government won't fix itself.

1

We're learning more and more about the corruption of the Democrats. When Nixon's people bugged Watergate, the dirty deeds were done by the campaign. While some of the people involved had previously been government employees, they were employees of the campaign when they committed that crime. Nixon was thrown out of office as a result. The Obama people who have committed crimes against the Trump campaign and the Trump administration have been government employees. That makes their crimes even worse. People like Strozk and Comey need to go to jail over those crimes. Otherwise, they will happen again and again and we will not have representative government at all. If Biden is elected, those crimes will never be prosecuted.

The COVID-19 situation has been handled poorly at all levels of government, but the Democrats have been the worst. Cuomo stuck sick old people in nursing homes where they transmitted the disease to other old people instead of using the facilities that the federal government provided. That increased the death count tremendously in New York. The lockdowns have destroyed the economy. The lockdowns have given another advantage to large companies like Walmart over local businesses in competition with Walmart. Biden and his handlers want another lockdown and wants to do further harm to small businesses and our communities. He wants to continue to help Walmart and Amazon at the expense of regular Americans working hard to make small businesses work.

The deregulation that Trump has brought has been good for the country, and we need to continue in that direction and not back to the same bad policies of the Obama years.

Trump has reduced the amount of fighting that we are doing around the world. He has strengthened Israel and brought more peace to that part of the world.

Traitors to this country have tried to use terrorism throughout the summer to try to scare people into voting against Trump. We need to reject their threats by voting for Trump. If they continue to commit violence, then we need to destroy them. Appeasement of tyranny has never worked, and these traitors are trying to impose tyranny.

1

from Bob Rinnear:

Good Vs Evil

In trying to figure out what message I’d like to present to you all as we’re just a few days away from a very important election, I stumbled across the following letter that was sent to Donald Trump. The sender is Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò. It’s a long read, but I think it’s spot on, and deserves a look. If any of you were wondering where your vote should go, you might want to truly dissect this work.

DONALD J. TRUMP
Sunday, October 25, 2020
Solemnity of Christ the King
Mr. President,

Allow me to address you at this hour in which the fate of the whole world is being threatened by a global conspiracy against God and humanity. I write to you as an Archbishop, as a Successor of the Apostles, as the former Apostolic Nuncio to the United States of America. I am writing to you in the midst of the silence of both civil and religious authorities. May you accept these words of mine as the “voice of one crying out in the desert” (Jn 1:23).

As I said when I wrote my letter to you in June, this historical moment sees the forces of Evil aligned in a battle without quarter against the forces of Good; forces of Evil that appear powerful and organized as they oppose the children of Light, who are disoriented and disorganized, abandoned by their temporal and spiritual leaders.

Daily we sense the attacks multiplying of those who want to destroy the very basis of society: the natural family, respect for human life, love of country, freedom of education and business. We see heads of nations and religious leaders pandering to this suicide of Western culture and its Christian soul, while the fundamental rights of citizens and believers are denied in the name of a health emergency that is revealing itself more and more fully as instrumental to the establishment of an inhuman faceless tyranny

A global plan called the Great Reset is underway. Its architect is a global élite that wants to subdue all of humanity, imposing coercive measures with which to drastically limit individual freedoms and those of entire populations. In several nations this plan has already been approved and financed; in others it is still in an early stage. Behind the world leaders who are the accomplices and executors of this infernal project, there are unscrupulous characters who finance the World Economic Forum and Event 201, promoting their agenda.

The purpose of the Great Reset is the imposition of a health dictatorship aiming at the imposition of liberticidal measures, hidden behind tempting promises of ensuring a universal income and cancelling individual debt. The price of these concessions from the International Monetary Fund will be the renunciation of private property and adherence to a program of vaccination against Covid-19 and Covid-21 promoted by Bill Gates with the collaboration of the main pharmaceutical groups. Beyond the enormous economic interests that motivate the promoters of the Great Reset, the imposition of the vaccination will be accompanied by the requirement of a health passport and a digital ID, with the consequent contact tracing of the population of the entire world. Those who do not accept these measures will be confined in detention camps or placed under house arrest, and all their assets will be confiscated.

Mr. President, I imagine that you are already aware that in some countries the Great Reset will be activated between the end of this year and the first trimester of 2021. For this purpose, further lockdowns are planned, which will be officially justified by a supposed second and third wave of the pandemic. You are well aware of the means that have been deployed to sow panic and legitimize draconian limitations on individual liberties, artfully provoking a world-wide economic crisis. In the intentions of its architects, this crisis will serve to make the recourse of nations to the Great Reset irreversible, thereby giving the final blow to a world whose existence and very memory they want to completely cancel. But this world, Mr. President, includes people, affections, institutions, faith, culture, traditions, and ideals: people and values that do not act like automatons, who do not obey like machines, because they are endowed with a soul and a heart, because they are tied together by a spiritual bond that draws its strength from above, from that God that our adversaries want to challenge, just as Lucifer did at the beginning of time with his “non serviam.”

Many people – as we well know – are annoyed by this reference to the clash between Good and Evil and the use of “apocalyptic” overtones, which according to them exasperates spirits and sharpens divisions. It is not surprising that the enemy is angered at being discovered just when he believes he has reached the citadel he seeks to conquer undisturbed. What is surprising, however, is that there is no one to sound the alarm. The reaction of the deep state to those who denounce its plan is broken and incoherent, but understandable. Just when the complicity of the mainstream media had succeeded in making the transition to the New World Order almost painless and unnoticed, all sorts of deceptions, scandals and crimes are coming to light.

Until a few months ago, it was easy to smear as “conspiracy theorists” those who denounced these terrible plans, which we now see being carried out down to the smallest detail. No one, up until last February, would ever have thought that, in all of our cities, citizens would be arrested simply for wanting to walk down the street, to breathe, to want to keep their business open, to want to go to church on Sunday.

Yet now it is happening all over the world, even in picture-postcard Italy that many Americans consider to be a small enchanted country, with its ancient monuments, its churches, its charming cities, its characteristic villages. And while the politicians are barricaded inside their palaces promulgating decrees like Persian satraps, businesses are failing, shops are closing, and people are prevented from living, traveling, working, and praying. The disastrous psychological consequences of this operation are already being seen, beginning with the suicides of desperate entrepreneurs and of our children, segregated from friends and classmates, told to follow their classes while sitting at home alone in front of a computer.

In Sacred Scripture, Saint Paul speaks to us of “the one who opposes” the manifestation of the mystery of iniquity, the kathèkon (2 Thess 2:6-7). In the religious sphere, this obstacle to evil is the Church, and in particular the papacy; in the political sphere, it is those who impede the establishment of the New World Order.

As is now clear, the one who occupies the Chair of Peter has betrayed his role from the very beginning in order to defend and promote the globalist ideology, supporting the agenda of the deep church, who chose him from its ranks.

Mr. President, you have clearly stated that you want to defend the nation – One Nation under God, fundamental liberties, and non-negotiable values that are denied and fought against today. It is you, dear President, who are “the one who opposes” the deep state, the final assault of the children of darkness.

For this reason, it is necessary that all people of good will be persuaded of the epochal importance of the imminent election: not so much for the sake of this or that political program, but because of the general inspiration of your action that best embodies – in this particular historical context – that world, our world, which they want to cancel by means of the lockdown. Your adversary is also our adversary: it is the Enemy of the human race, He who is “a murderer from the beginning” (Jn 8:44).

Around you are gathered with faith and courage those who consider you the final garrison against the world dictatorship. The alternative is to vote for a person who is manipulated by the deep state, gravely compromised by scandals and corruption, who will do to the United States what Jorge Mario Bergoglio is doing to the Church, Prime Minister Conte to Italy, President Macron to France, Prime Minster Sanchez to Spain, and so on. The blackmailable nature of Joe Biden – just like that of the prelates of the Vatican’s “magic circle” – will exposehim to be used unscrupulously, allowing illegitimate powers to interfere in both domestic politics as well as international balances. It is obvious that those who manipulate him already have someone worse than him ready, with whom they will replace him as soon as the opportunity arises.

And yet, in the midst of this bleak picture, this apparently unstoppable advance of the “Invisible Enemy,” an element of hope emerges. The adversary does not know how to love, and it does not understand that it is not enough to assure a universal income or to cancel mortgages in order to subjugate the masses and convince them to be branded like cattle. This people, which for too long has endured the abuses of a hateful and tyrannical power, is rediscovering that it has a soul; it is understanding that it is not willing to exchange its freedom for the homogenization and cancellation of its identity; it is beginning to understand the value of familial and social ties, of the bonds of faith and culture that unite honest people.

This Great Reset is destined to fail because those who planned it do not understand that there are still people ready to take to the streets to defend their rights, to protect their loved ones, to give a future to their children and grandchildren. The leveling inhumanity of the globalist project will shatter miserably in the face of the firm and courageous opposition of the children of Light. The enemy has Satan on its side, He who only knows how to hate. But on our side,we have the Lord Almighty, the God of armies arrayed for battle, and the Most Holy Virgin, who will crush the headof the ancient Serpent. “If God is for us, who can be against us?” (Rom 8:31).

Mr. President, you are well aware that, in this crucial hour, the United States of America is considered the defending wall against which the war declared by the advocates of globalism has been unleashed. Place your trust in the Lord, strengthened by the words of the Apostle Paul: “I can do all things in Him who strengthens me” (Phil 4:13). To be an instrument of Divine Providence is a great responsibility, for which you will certainly receive all the graces of state that you need, since they are being fervently implored for you by the many people who support you with their prayers.

With this heavenly hope and the assurance of my prayer for you, for the First Lady, and for your collaborators, with all my heart I send you my blessing.

God bless the United States of America!

  • Carlo Maria Viganò
    Tit. Archbishop of Ulpiana
    Former Apostolic Nuncio to the United States of America

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