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Nordstroms, a US retailer, happily sells "The future is female" T-shirts [shop.nordstrom.com] based on the 1970s slogan. Should a shirt that, in essence, is promoting a future without men, be considered similar to a shirt saying "F * you, women"? What does it mean to a young boy?

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16

I come from a different time ... I think a better time ...
All guys wanted (and largely evaluated their lives by) their gal.
All gals wanted (and largely evaluated their lives by) their guy.
Lovemaking was relatively free of hassle and concern and ... usually ... enjoyed by both.
Trusting someone with Love was relatively easy.

Then came Feminism in two flavors ... one with meaningless sex ... one anti-sex.
Then came the declaration that MEN were the PROBLEM
Then came “Divorce made simple”.
Then came “What have you done for me lately?”
Then came herpes ... and the “weaponizing” of herpes ... especially by angry women.
Then came a massive population of males and females who had so much baggage or children that they really didn’t have time for “their partner” but they still really wanted one.
Then came a massive ... questioning ... homosexuality culture.
Then came AIDS.
Then came fear.

Now it seems that we’ve arrived at some odd stage where it’s been decided that people are going to make up their own Agenda/Life/Gender and EVERYBODY Else Damn Well Better Agree ...

I’m not really sure either tee shirt applies at this point because I’m actually expecting a “young person” to look at an “older person” and ask earnestly; “What’s a ‘Female / Woman’”?

I would never have believed that I’d ever come to this but these days, when I accidentally stumble across a seemingly attractive Female (mentally or physically), I look for a back door to duck out of before they do or say something and shatters the illusion that I actually might have met one ...

I believe you have hit the nail on the head! Welcome to Babylon/Confusion!

Well I wouldn't be surprized to see one day the T-shirt «what's a female, what's a male». I've seen «I'm non-binary» which is pretty close.

12

Here's a truth that is not PC...

When women seem obsessed with publically asserting themselves as "strong women" it makes them appear self-conscious, defensive, and weak, and it hurts them both socially and professionally. Powerful people don't have to brag about being powerful.

The sad thing is, I don't believe there are a lot of women like that. But there's a loud minority, particularly in media and Hollywood, who are constantly doing this and putting women in a culturally less favorable light.

Maybe true but here's the thing: Since we now live with Gov't that picks and chooses winners and losers at every possible level of our culture (from economics to education and now "gender" preferences and others) there is GREAT advantage to playing your demographic "victim card". Gov't will not only create and open pathway for you to whatever your desires might be it will pretty much destroy anyone who dare to get in the way - that is anyone who does not fit the "victimization demographic which is most obviously White heterosexual males. With this in mind we are now talking about the character or the lack of character in those who are more than avid participants in the scheme of "leveling the proverbial playing field".

@iThink that is true as well. The dynamic probably varies by industry, to a certain extent. It's probably very different at Google than it is at some manufacturing company, for instance.

10

The shirt merely reflects the goals of our schools, our government and our society, to promote women and ignore men. Why? Because men are seen as toxic perpetrators of the patriarchy who need to be held down. It’s working. Just look at the graduation rate in our colleges and grad schools. Soon the ratio will be 60% women and 40% men. This doesn’t happen all by itself. This has been choreographed. I hate the shirt, the message and the movement because I have four sons who will be overlooked for jobs and eventually promotions because.....the future is female.

A thumbs up simply isn't enough! Perfectly stated. Division is the stuff of small minds. We must transcend this type of pettiness and look at the bigger picture. Just about everybody wants REAL equality, but I very much oppose the way the activist left goes about trying to achieve it. Sorely misguided. This shirt and the response to it is a perfect example of how gravely misguided it is.

9

IMO, walking down the street in Pink Pussy Hats carrying signs saying "Girl Power" and "The Future is Female" is pretty much the same as walking down the street in clan hoods with signs that say "White Power". The bigotry inherent is exactly the same.

for obvious reasons I will strongly disagree with this comment.

@iThink What are your obvious reasons?

@jwhitten obviously the sociopolitical movement that created and promoted pink pussy hats and wording like "girl power" are in NO way equivalent to the violent, murderous, shameful ideology that gave rise to the KKK. Personally I do not blame Black people for reacting with anger at the audacity of those idiotic enough to strut around in KKK regalia and shouting out for "White Power". The two are in no way equivalent and I think you know that.

@iThink You're right. The body count is nowhere near the same.

@jwhitten, I don't even blame black people for voting for Obama in unison. It makes a whole lot of sense, and a whole lot of white people voted for Obama for the same reason. That was before anyone knew it would be such a disaster. But, it was sure evidence that everyone saw electing Obama as a sign we'd come through an awful storm and survived (blacks more than any). Man, I was convinced some redneck bottom feeder would take shots at him before his first term was over. NOBODY did! It was almost a relief for everyone to elect him. Unfortunately, Obama had an unforeseen ability to push EVERY wrong button he could possibly touch. You'd think he would have gotten something right just by chance. Still nobody took a shot at him. When I think about all of the qualified black people who could have been the first black president, it's certainly disappointing. BUT, WE HAD A BLACK PRESIDENT! Pretty odd thing for a wholly racist country to do. Also unfortunately, spoiled white activists who grew up on self-loathing don't know how to exist outside of that hatred that defines them. They don't know what to be. So, all they can see is oppression everywhere, and luckily there are no better champions of the black cause than spoiled white activists. The irony is palpable. Anyway, the point isn't lost. While the social weight between the two is quite different, the principle within which both exist is quite similar.

@chuckpo I was actually thinking that the body count is phenomenally high. What difference does it make how death occurs? Dead is dead. Kill 'em while they're young. It's so much easier that way. It's become so common it's institutionalized. They strip them down even and sell them for parts. Then crow about it online-- So happy for my abortion! And wear T-shirts, "Ask me about my abortion!" Heck, compared to them the Klan are a bunch of amateur lightweights. Margaret Sanger would be so proud.

@skyebellau Yup.

9

I think it's a win for identity politics. It directly pits men against women. Oppressor/victim narrative. Idiots. Lets not be productive and work together - lets fight/exclude.

Demere Level 6 May 31, 2019

I agree, progress is difficult when people adhere to to the us vs.them mentality, on any platform

8

It strikes me as an empty, corporate feminist slogan. It doesn't hurt me and I'm not going to lower myself to read pedantic meanings into it or equate it to intentionally inflammatory misogynistic slogans. If I encountered a woman wearing the shirt, I'd assume that they were a well-meaning feminist without much of a class consciousness.

valid analysis and approach to the meme...pretty much the same for me. While I am not "offended" and certainly not harmed in any way by the shirt I am not unaware of the concerted systematized effort to make girls and women think they can do anything Batman can do and do it better - in heels while dancing backward....LOL

I disagree. While I do understand your point, and can agree with it abstractly, I disagree that it has no impact in our society. I think there are a lot of boys out there who are being fed a lot of negative messages aimed at their gender-- an unalterable attribute-- just exactly what we are taught "bigotry" is all about. While ONE girl wearing ONE shirt may be exactly what you said. THOUSANDS of girls acting in UNISON sends an extremely loud and potent message.

7

At the root here, is the concept of exclusiveness. For example, advocating for equal focus on male specific subjects, such as prostate cancer, in some way takes away from women’s issues in their minds. The big issue, is how Western Culture, guided by white men, has been the sole mechanism towards equality for all. Sadly though, the other groups aren’t reciprocating, and in fact, trying to exclude the very group that brought us here.

Harpoon Level 6 May 31, 2019
6

I hope there’ll be enough young boys that will not be swayed by politically correct BS to realize men will continue to be contributors to our society and that they can still pursue a fulfilling career and life—even finding a loving and fulfilling relationship with a woman.

Garsco Level 7 May 31, 2019

A lot of that isn't happening already, @Garsco. The statistics are pretty grim.

@chuckpo Brave new world?

5

Watch "The Red Pill" [theredpillmovie.com]

5

Well, another t-shirt could say «the future, just like the past, is both male and female». Wouldn't probably make many sales. «The future is female» is not only the equivalent of «F you men» but also «F you nature», «F you reality», and, more importantly, «F you equality».

I think your t-shirt would have two demographic buyers. The first would be those who are genuinely interested in mending disparities. The second would be the community seeking advantage by gaining trust. So, make your millions, and send me a portion, for identifying your market😉

3

The marketing people at Nordstroms come from universities, which are (in effect) secular seminaries.
They watch liberal/progressive media. They are focusing on a core group of upscale female shoppers (who tend to share their views). Of course they are going to use themes that reflect their worldview.

When the same kind of marketing people tried this at Dick's Sporting Goods it failed. Why? Because their core shoppers aren't liberal women.

We live in an age of foolishness. It is not unique in history. As the prophet Jeremiah said, make a choice, walk in the old paths of faith and wisdom. You can escape the foolishness of the age.

3

I am not clear on the meaning of the shirt on the right. Nevertheless, Nordstrom and any other business (Gillette for example) will get away with all the ridiculous virtue signaling, feminist, toxic masculinity, rape culture, memes they care to produce - why is that you might ask? Because truthfully at the heart of all the "victimization of women" nonsense is the giant PINK elephant - known as a culture that is absolutely gynocentric. In Western culture (especially in USA, GB, Canada, Australia, and Western Europe women (especially young and attractive women) can get away with any ridiculous imaginary claim of being maltreated that they care to claim and NOBODY can tell them otherwise. Pretty much the same goes for Black people. The "systemic victimization of women and Blacks" is the single biggest fraud and is a myth, being repeated daily. These are insidious claims and they are reflected in culture at all levels from the casual conversational level to the systematized distribution of "news" and upward into the speeches and the soundbites emanating from the mouths of the politicians as well as its incursions into the curricula of public education and private (except perhaps for home schooling) education.

iThink Level 8 May 31, 2019

I'm not enough of an expert on women's equality, but thankfully you bring up the even clearer and more recent example of black inequality. The question that I always ask in response to this type of claim, and am still waiting for an answer, is when was black inequality solved? I imagine it must have been sometime between the death of MLK Jr. in 1968 and the abandonment of civil rights efforts by Nixon, somewhere in there with the firebombing of school buses.

@WilyRickWiles I don't know that we can pin it to any particular date or event. But it should be abundantly obvious that the only thing holding the black man down today is the culture of Black victimization theology.

I think that's busy changing as a lot of men and many women are waking up to the bullshit and having enough of it. It could happen sooner, but I'm glad that it's happening at all.

@iThink What I'd really like to see from someone is an analysis by year, from 1968 forward, of the progress on each aspect of black inequality that MLK Jr. raised.

@jwhitten things seem to be evolving that way - thank God for people like Candace Owens, Thomas Sowell, Walter E Williams, Jesse Peterson and other Blacks who have taken up the crusade of preaching truth to power on the subject of Black Victimization and just who is victimizing whom.

@WilyRickWiles Im sure the info is out there if someone cares to compile and objectively analyze it...let us know what you come up with Ricky! 😉

@iThink I'm talking about the other side, here! You'd think the Jesse Lee Petersons of the world would be on this...

@iThink I agree. I especially like Candace Owens. That woman is a real fire-cracker and I'm in awe of her ability to get in there and mix it up. She's a no-nonsense truth-talker who kicks ass and doesn't even bother taking names.

@iThink And of course it is to the advantage of black individuals to attempt to pull themselves up by the bootstraps, because that's the only thing they they'll be better off for it, but that does not mean there aren't serious systemic issues that need to be addressed. And it is frankly repressive for non-blacks to bankroll people who work to make blacks further internalize the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow.

I like to compare it to the situation of my grandfather, who grew up in a poor, broken family in a poor rural town during the Depression, but thankfully was able to go to College and marry up and out of town thanks to an old family connection to the most wealthy person in town and the GI Bill (which blacks were largely cut out from, BTW). I'm sure there were plenty of other deserving people in that town, who would have made good on more public investment, but in the absence of such investment my grandfather was one of the few who lucked out. And I'm in a much better place today than the descendants of his neighbors for that very reason.

The difference with blacks is that they are much more likely to suffer from the effects of poverty due to the legacy of slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, workplace discrimination, and voting inequality. We started to address those problems in the late '60s but lost the political will and as a result progress remains at a standstill at best a half century later.

@WilyRickWiles "The difference with blacks is that they are much more likely to suffer from the effects of poverty due to the legacy of slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, workplace discrimination, and voting inequality" - your bleeding heart ideas are misplaced IMHO. Seems rather chauvinistic and patronizing for you to think of Blacks that way.

@iThink Not really. I want to hold us to the commitments we made in the late '60s to fulfill MLK Jr.'s demands. I am not imposing my worldview, rather I am trying to respect and support the self-determination of black citizens, academics, and activists.

@WilyRickWiles Bully for you

@WilyRickWiles >> And of course it is to the advantage of black individuals to attempt to pull themselves up by the bootstraps, because they'll be better off for it, but that does not mean there aren't serious systemic issues that need to be addressed.

And THAT bit of truth-- you take it wherever you find it-- holds true for ALL people, ALL races, ALL genders all up and down the line. The only people, IMO who have a true legitimate (and permanent) grievance are the truly disabled, and it even applies to them insofar as it is able to be.

Everybody needs some assistance now and then. And there is no shame in either asking for it or receiving it. And there are things that people do to and about each other which either are specifically "*-ist" or are simply done in an unthinking / unknowing manner not intended unkindly, even if it may appear that way, or could be interpreted that way on the surface.

Renegotiation is a good thing. Airing one's grievances is a good thing. HEARING what other people have to say is a good thing. Being open to new ideas and change is a good thing.

What is NOT a good thing is being led around by the nose and made to feel guilty for things which are not your fault, that you had no part in making / enacting, things that "have always been done that way"-- etc. There is a difference between things being the way that they are through a complex confluence of mostly unrelated events-- and systemic "*-ism".

You CANNOT CURE "-ism" with MORE "-ism". And purposely engineering a "*-ist" society is even MORE bigoted than anything you might be complaining about. There simply is no comparison between the two.

One of the problems we have in our current era are people who use their unalterable-attributes as weapons to bash other well-meaning, perhaps unknowing or unthinking people over the head with and holding them hostage for personal gain.

THAT IS WRONG.

@iThink, on Candace Owens, et al., I think we're seeing a lot more women step up and cement a line where equality is--that space where women are systemically equal without crossing over into tyranny. We are starting to see some black people stepping up in the same way. The more women step up to be a force against activism that goes too far, the more tension is released out of the public and private spheres. I'm expecting as more black people step up against black activism that goes too far, the more tension will be released in public and private spaces. The truth is all black people and all women have never thought solely as a group. Individuality is lost in the need for some solidarity. But, the key is restoring balance when some outcome has been defined and achieved. I'd also say it's the fault of the activists for not having well defined goals. That's something MLK Jr. talked about a lot. What will it look like when we're all equal? How will we know when we're all equal? When we lost MLK Jr., we lost that uniquely insightful vision. I don't recall the women's movement ever having that sort of conversation--how do we know when we're done, and what do we do then?

I'd like to think we could all learn something from these movements--not just working toward equalizing the world, which is dramatically good. But, I'd like to see new grievance groups more intentionally define their goals in a healthy way and have that conversation of how we know when we get there. And, how will we relate to each other when the fight's won. THAT is the relational way to move forward with a grievance. All of this hideous garbage being promoted by the left as 'inclusion' is as horrid as it is ignorant.

This is where we are right now in this country. Interesting simplification. Probably pretty accurate.

Josie Wales: You be Ten Bears?
Ten Bears: I am Ten Bears.
Josie Wales: I’m Josey Wales.
Ten Bears: I have heard. You are the grey rider. You would not make peace with the Bluecoats. You may go in peace.
Josie Wales: I reckon not. I got no place else to go.
Ten Bears: Then you will die.
Josie Wales: I came here to die with you. Or to live with you.

@chuckpo >> how will we relate to each other when the fight's won

We will all simply be.

@jwhitten What is NOT a good thing is being led around by the nose and made to feel guilty for things which are not your fault, that you had no part in making / enacting

I agree, just as blacks should not internalize the legacy of their oppression, neither should you internalize as an individual the legacy of racism by white people, though it is certainly to society's benefit for you to grapple with it. Capitalism wants to make everything about the individual, so its solution to racism, while of course not equal to the badness of racism, is itself bad. The better solution is to use our collective means--our government--to correct for its past misdeeds. Moreover, our most pressing obligation is to make sure to remedy the oppression that is ongoing, e.g., through discrimination in law or in the market. It is hard to get to that point, though, if you personalize everything through the lens of taxation.

You CANNOT CURE "-ism" with MORE "-ism". And purposely engineering a "X-ist" society is even MORE bigoted than anything you might be complaining about. There simply is no comparison between the two.

If I concede your definition of an "-ism" for the sake of argument, your claim creates a convenient catch-22 where we're helpless to solve any "-isms." I don't accept that. The reality is that you have to recognize an "-ism" in order to correct it. A surgeon has to test for a disease and cut a person in order to cure them and we don't accuse them of making people sick. But ultimately, the most fair way to address race inequality is while simultaneously recognizing and addressing class inequality, which is what MLK Jr. wanted.

@jwhitten Renegotiation is a good thing. Airing one's grievances is a good thing. HEARING what other people have to say is a good thing. Being open to new ideas and change is a good thing.

This is why some black figures have said that we should have a "truth and reconciliation" process, like they have had in countries with major sectarian conflicts.

@WilyRickWiles the fairest way to address "-ism" is to just stop.

@chuckpo there can never be a time when "all are equal" in any practical sense. Under the law of the land all American People are supposedly "equal under the law". But that often turns out to be untrue.

@WilyRickWiles the primary problem I see in your comments here is the implicit presupposition that only Whites are or can be racist.

@iThink Point it out. That's not something I believe, though. But certainly white racism had the most to do with the US's special problems of slavery and Jim Crow.

@iThink Also, I don't have a problem with someone being racist if they don't take that racism into the public square.

@iThink I'm glad you admit that it often turns out that people are unequal under the law. That's a big part of systemic racism.

@WilyRickWiles I don't believe in "systemic racism" and that myth really has nothing to do with unequal treatment under the law -however, I will say with great confidence that more often than not "unequal treatment" under the law follows along lines of economic station. Poor and working class people generally get severe treatment while upper class, political class and upper middle class all but get away scot free.

@WilyRickWiles while ignorance is no excuse for it and since you keep dwelling on the past talking about slavery in USA, it bears pointing out that Slavery was NOT unique in any way shape of form to the Colonial USA. Furthermore Slavery is going on right now all throughout the Middle East, on the Continent of Africa, and I believe in Asia and Southeast Asia. I dare say White people (women in particular) are being held in Slavery as we speak. I am not making excuses for Slavery here in USA but I do believe we are well past the need to dwell on it. It's over - it has been over for a very long time.

@iThink I don't disagree on what you say about slavery, though we may disagree on degree. I admit that until your last sentence I did think you were making excuses for US slavery. I disagree that we need to move on. Your omission of Jim Crow is interesting because it is objectively too early to move on from that. Many of its victims are still living, besides the fact that reforms stalled in less than a decade.

@WilyRickWiles Jim Crow is over too - so what do you suggest we do about those victims who are still living. should we feed their need to perpetuate their own sense of being aggrieved? For how long should White people (relatively very few still living who participated in Jim Crow goings on and many of whom fought against it) apologize for it. What number of years and mea culpas what acts of contrition will satisfy them? I repeat - it is well past time to move on from that complaint. We need to focus on what ever dynamics are "keeping the Black man down"...if indeed that is happening I suggest it has nothing to do with White racism.

@iThink You seem to wrongly assume that we've been atoning all these years. Among the best ways to correct for Jim Crow are integrating schools (Louisville is one place that's made an effort) and providing public and subsidized housing. The Chicago Housing Authority just settled a 50-year-old lawsuit for god's sake. We haven't even gotten started.

@WilyRickWiles Blacks of today are the ones militating for racial segregation.

@iThink And building on the First Step Act for criminal justice reform and providing more holistic services to impoverished communities would be great too.

@iThink And restoring the Voting Rights Act to stop racially motivated electoral engineering like they have had in North Carolina.

@WilyRickWiles you just keep up the fight for that Ricky if makes you feel all virtuous and such...I'll simply move along and not give any of it a second thought.

@iThink And I'm not against reparations, but experts seem to agree that there should be a commission set up first. People need more help than cash.

@iThink For me, it's about being a good neighbor, having a coherent understanding of history, working toward the world I want to live in (even from a selfish point of view, if marginalized people are made more equal, less or non-marginalized people should be even more secure), and keeping our collective promises.

I see how you could get the sense from some black activists that they are pushing for segregation, at least in terms of how some activist groups are organized, but I don't think that represents all black activists, and I see it partially as a function of how activism functions in a capitalist, and segregated world. Foundation funding is very focused and not available for big tent groups like the Democratic Socialists of America, for example. Nevertheless, organizations like Black Lives Matter collaborate with other non-identity-based groups and generally are intersectionality-minded, for better or worse.

@iThink, he gave you his deeply seeded beliefs. It's not about equality, and it's not about the future and living together as equals. It's all about atonement. That's it. That's the fatal flaw. He doesn't think he needs to pay because he's an appropriate 'ally', as defined by privileged white activists. It's all of the other white people who need to atone--the ones that haven't bowed to kiss the privileged white ring. It's a corrosive ideology inextricably anchored in this whitewashing litmus test that allows them to condemn others while simultaneously lifting themselves out of their guilt. I promise you--kiss the ring. Once you kiss that ring, you'll be best friends. You'll be inducted into the elite white enlightened progressive group. The odd thing is not one black person is needed in the process anywhere. This is a white thing. I keep waiting for black people to sit back and watch what's actually going on, and to start asking how the black experience was appropriated from them by white people...

@chuckpo Hmm... not sure where I said that I didn't have to pay taxes to fund our government's school integration and fair housing mandates, for example, because I'm such a good ally. You're projecting, AGAIN.

@iThink

there can never be a time when "all are equal" in any practical sense. Under the law of the land all American People are supposedly "equal under the law". But that often turns out to be untrue.

Systemically. Equal opportunity. There was clearly disadvantage, and there are still remnants of disadvantage, but most of that has been cleaned up as much as it will ever be. Now, it's about figuring how to move on--as you said. It's not a perfect situation, but it never will be. One thing is certain, reparations is an exceedingly ignorant idea--I mean, way dumber than affirmative action, which helped to extend the cycle of hatred. Reparations will produce damage across several factors.

@chuckpo If you read my earlier replies you'd know how clear I was that it's NOT about individuals.

@chuckpo And if I mentioned my personal motivations in response to someone bringing them up, that's different than what I think another person's responsibility is.

@chuckpo "The odd thing is not one black person is needed in the process anywhere."

  1. There's not a lot of black people in this community that I know of. Might have something to do with how conservative funders tokenize people like Candace Owens.

  2. There didn't need to be any black people for iThink to say that systemic racism against blacks is a fraud and a myth, either. Are you suggesting that I shouldn't be able to challenge that notion as a white person citing the work of black people like MLK Jr.?

@chuckpo Moreover, it's not just about black people. If one group can suffer discrimination, we're all vulnerable.

@WilyRickWiles so from the first sentence in this comment may we infer that you ARE and expert on any subjects or topics which you deign to opine upon? If so I demand to see your credentials sir! LOL!

@iThink Here's what Stefan Molyneux has to say about slavery, as a starting point for discussion.

@iThink, @WilyRickWiles @Chuckpo Who are you going to pay? And where is the cash going to come from? No matter what form the "help" comes in, it's going to cost somebody something. What do we do about the black people who were complicit in slavery? What about the white (and other) people who were also enslaved? What about the people who signed indentured servitude contracts and were treated worse than slaves? What about the white people (and others) who worked to free the slaves? Fought and died to end slavery? Why are we more concerned about paying them off instead of simply repatriating them to their home countries? What about the various ethnic groups (including whites and white men) who are being systemically discriminated now in various "affirmative action" programs? What to do about American Indians?

@iThink, @WilyRickWiles >> I see how you could get the sense from some black activists that they are pushing for segregation

Example... Evergreen College... "A Day Without White People"... ya think?

@iThink, @WilyRickWiles @Chuckpo >> Moreover, it's not just about black people. If one group can suffer discrimination, we're all vulnerable.

You mean like Christians and Women in Muslim "No-Go" zones and that sort of thing?? Or the neighborhoods where "Whitey" isn't welcome? Of course there are also just plain old Gang gangs who band together for "business" reasons-- drugs, prostitution, extortion and that sort of thing. But back to the other-- I'd say the gang in Rotherham England have had quite a few more than their fair share of seventy-two virgins by now.

@jwhitten Umm, sure we could try to completely correct for every historical injustice...but chattel slavery and the subsequent discrimination against freed blacks is special in that it's hands-down the biggest multi-generational injustice perpetrated by the US government against a group of people whose descendants are still with us in large numbers. The freedom of generations of people and by default their children was stolen. So let's not get caught up in relatively marginal injustices. Moreover, as the richest and most powerful country in the world, we can afford to pay, even if we have to print the money.

@jwhitten But yes, a debt is also owed to Native Americans--that is an even harder problem to correct.

@jwhitten I love that Stefan Molyneux is the starting point for discussions on slavery. Good lord.

@WilyRickWiles the relative injustices are of your own making. you are free to decide which ones are worthy of your bleeding heart and which ones are not...so go on and bleed for the Blacks if that's what it takes to make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. As I said in an earlier comment - I'll just move along and not give a second thought to any of it...it's not worth my time and even if it were (which it isn't) I could not do anything that would change or improve nor atone for all of the worlds injustice - that's life and I have learned to accept it. You know that AAA prayer - something about "...grant me the strength to change the things I can and to accept the things I can't" - you know that one? Well I am not an alcoholic (I rarely drink) but I think that sentiment applies to everyone in all aspects of human life. I choose to go by those words.

@WilyRickWiles you know what really wiped out the North American tribes? Technological progress. They were still living in the stone age when the Spanish Conquistadors arrived. What happened to the Natives was neither good nor bad so much as it was inevitable.

@iThink Yes, I granted special status to chattel slavery and Jim Crow. I challenge anyone to find a collective injustice nearly as bad as those other than what we did to the Native Americans. And as I touched on before, the best way to correct for relatively minor injustices is to address most injustices with universal programs.

Most people can control whether they vote in candidates with racist policies...that's a start.

@WilyRickWiles >> hands-down the biggest multi-generational injustice perpetrated by the US government against a group of people whose descendants are still with us in large numbers.

Apart from the American Indians. They weren't even considered fit to be chattel, they were simply hunted down and killed like vermin. "The only good injun is a dead injun", right?

@WilyRickWiles But you're so gung ho about getting it right for black people? Why stop there? We could do the Chinese next. And the Irish after that... the list is long.

@WilyRickWiles >> I love that Stefan Molyneux is the starting point for discussions on slavery. Good lord.

I posted that as a counterpoint to the history that you posted.

@jwhitten I'd worry about the humanity of our current immigration policies first...

@WilyRickWiles, @iThink, @chuckpo I would be willing to consider an initiative that helps everybody-- anybody get ahead. No injustice required. Besides, we keep inching closer and closer to that singularity-- everybody's going to be there soon. How you were historically marginalized is simply not going to make much difference. How you will move forward and celebrate your humanity moving forward is the question that really confronts us today. Will we be able to get past tit-for-tat free-for-all politics, or can we pull it together and move everybody along?

@WilyRickWiles Me too. Flinging open the doors and whistling for everybody to come running is pretty inhuman.

@WilyRickWiles then you lead the way - be the humane person in the crowd - open your home to a family/extended family of poor destitute Honduran refugees. Take personal responsibility for their housing, health care food....while you're at it why don't you resign your job or at least give your earnings to a more deserving Black person - after all you are a White Male - let reparations begin with you. Lead the way Ricky...or maybe you would feel more righteous if you were to sign over the ownership of your home to deserving descendants of Black American Slaves...give them YOUR 20 acres and your mule...do all that before you pass judgement on everyone else by putting them/us into a category of "racists" who OWE recompense of the past misdeeds of our ancestors...BTW, My Great Grandfather immigrated from Ireland in late 19th century. He was poor and destitute, my grandfather was poor and destitute, my father was poor and destitute...I pulled myself up by the proverbial bootstraps and managed to work a lot of hard jobs in order to have a family and to care for them myself...I have NEVER received a welfare nor an unemployment check because when I needed a job I found a job - I could not look myself in the mirror if I were able bodied and intelligent enough to make my own way for myself and my family...the thought of depending on taxpayer monies for my familial responsibilities sickened me. Blacks can do the same...anytime - there is NOTHING holding them back.

@iThink

It’s way past time for us to stop looking around for someone to hate or blame! It’s time to cast our gaze upward to the untouchable stratosphere where the string pullers dwell...

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So cisnormative. I'm very offended.

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The future is female, for females. Just like for males, the future is male. Unless of course, one or the other wants to transition and then spend the rest of their lives trying to pretend that their respective futures are the opposite of what they really are.

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Look what I found.

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Looks kinda like a marketing strategy dispatched to recruit as many members possible from the recent sudden surge of emotional, self-pitying individuals belonging to the (basically now world wide) gender confused community........all t-shirts are flat chested...haha

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I quit going to Nordstrom because it was too expensive. Why spend money on a store that is SJW crazy?

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Wow we go from the simple retail pandering to females who account for the vast majority of personal and family purchasing with a silly T shirt to pin the tail on the broader American culture creating an equilibrium of unspoken means for African Americans. Well the answer is really simple. All men (read people) are created equal. Now these foolish fallacies we have chained to us that Life is fair or if not We, mortal men (read people) can fix it. Such damned vanity!!!

People ascribe to natural selection or evolution in biology and go to great length to show it's effects over millions of years.....my,my, my how damned unfair to hundreds of thousands of cheated generation born behind the eight ball of an unfairly slow ass process. All while here in a bare jot of time....6000 years of the history of civilization....in the last 250 years we have seen Western Society, Culture, Law evolve from the Inbred Royalty, One Mother of a Church, Empires and surfs to the concepts of equality of genders, races and the acceptance of all creeds.

My point is simple...you gotta dig through tons of dirt at a ton of depths to find the weeist bit of the evolution of biologic systems but HISTORY stand before us, bare, imperfect bloody yet steady at lightning speed in comparison. No nation, no system, no government no man made construct will make life equal for humans. We are on to the path that holds the greatest potential to a more level playing field but the luck of birth....talent, intelligence, motivation, geographics will never allow an equal out come or a perfectly equal shot. The logic that under girds humanity making humans all equal leads to genetic tailoring to fit the perfect pattern.....this path is too much like The Wrath of Khan or the Destruction of Krypton in real time. Fiction trending towards horror!

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I AM WOMAN anyone remember?

Hell ... I’m Not Ready?

To update the comment for those who are missing info ...
Recording Artist: Helen Reddy ...

@Bay0Wulf I don't want it. We need men in all of societies activities.

@Bay0Wulf You're going to hell for that one, you know that, right?

@Bay0Wulf yes my husband started singing it.😂 and dancing.

@Gerri4321
Middle Age Gender Conflict?
It does sound humorous ... tho I don’t know y’all.

@Bay0Wulf no conflict he just has a strange wacky, odd, , raw when it hit, it hits sense of humor

@skyebellau 🙃😔😕🤧🤧🤧🤧🤧🤧 I have been married to my husband for 26 years and never has he been disrespectful to anyone don't even go there assuming such if him. You assume if any man you wish not mine.

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comments are screened and sifted

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I agree with many here that if it said the future was male.... or the future was white.... heads would explode.... the angry mob would come after you with pitchforks and torches.... you'd lose your job, your family, your dog, and your name would be mud.

SeanT Level 5 June 1, 2019
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I think it is the hypocrisy being discussed here. If there was a shirt that said The Future Is Male, millions of heads would explode, and antifa would be hurting more people. This t-shirt is an activist leftist dog whistle. On the other side, ppl can't even wear gear that says Make America Great Again without being assaulted. That's the conversation.

chuckpo Level 7 June 1, 2019

@skyebellau, I can go into the million reasons I completely disagree with you, but it won't make a difference. You need your patriarchy. You just need to research some more. There are some links on this site to get you started, if you dare.

I haven't seen everyone arguing a women's movement wasn't necessary. You won't find that from me. What you will find from me is the question when does an activist group go too far? Feminism--3rd wave feminism currently goes too far, and there's no better evidence for that than the women who are standing up to say, 'enough' AND, the backlash they take from feminists who pretend they care about equality and giving women voice. I guess they only want their female voices to be heard. They certainly don't support the voice won by women who disagree with you. Why? What are your goals SPECIFICALLY? What defines success. When can you stop fighting, and what will you do when the fight is over?

Okay, I started on some of the million...

@skyebellau

I would go into a million reasons you completely overlooked why i said feminism was necessary, but it won't make any difference. You need your patriarchy. You need to 'look' at male behaviour more. There are links all over the internet to get you started, if you dare to care for oppressed mothers and sisters all over the world.

First, I agree with you a women's movement was necessary. That makes that one really easy, right? Cool.

I've actually read a lot on the women's movement. That and thinking about it a lot is why I agree with you a women's movement was necessary. I've written some pretty long posts on why it was necessary, as well as where it went off track. I've looked at male behavior plenty. I've also looked at female behavior. And, I've looked at human behavior. I've been supportive of equality for all, and I can make an argument for where women were right, where they were wrong, and where they are wrong now. I can also make an argument for where men were right, where they were wrong, and where I hope they can avoid making the same mistakes women made in their search for equal rights. You know what? Yeah, I'm going there. I can also make an argument for where human beings were right, and where they were wrong, and what I hope they can learn to better conduct the process of grievance. You?

I haven't seen anyone argue here that a women's movement was necessary... other than me. What you will find is my answers already, to your unwarranted fears (quote) "when does an activist group go too far?" (unquote). If you read what i 'actually' wrote not what you 'think' i wrote - or didnt write - its obvious i do not think feminists have any intention of dominating men they way men dominated them.

Well, hahaha, I hope you can learn to live with the fact I simply disagree with you. Mind you, I don't care if you can live with it or not. That's your choice. But, you're not right simply because you wrote it. I think you're WAY OFF BASE--not by a little--gravely flawed. Such is life among equals, huh?

I also said feminism will vanish (not go too far???) when equality is achieved, just as the LGBTQ community protests have vanished now that equality has been achieved (in western nations) just as racism protests will also. Its not rocket science.

Maybe you should study rockets. I don't know why you think the LGBTQ protests have disappeared. Seems a completely implausible assertion, but I'll hear you out if you care to provide evidence that's true.

m not aware of feminists receiving "backlash" from less active women. And contrary to your 'belief' that women only want to hear their own voices, nonsense! they are calling for men support. How dumb do you think women are? So I have no idea who "they" is, or what youre referring to when you say "'They' certainly don't support the voice won by women who disagree with you." Names please? Nor do i understand why youre asking again "what 'my' goals are SPECIFICALLY?" and "What defines success. When can you stop fighting, and what will you do when the fight is over?" (unquote).

I guess you're not doing much reading--even on this site, and I'm not sure what you're defining as 'less active women'. I see fully able women with strong voices standing up against what feminists have tried to force down everyone's throats like it was a Bible or something. It was inevitable, if you think about social change. The fight gave ALL WOMEN voice. It was inevitable women would not all think in unison based on some hive-think.

Where did I say women only want to hear their own voices? No seriously, what did you misread to come to that conclusion?

A lot of men have supported the women's cause--even at the peril of men. SOME of those woke up--or are waking up--to a movement that lost its way and treaded into tyranny. Men aren't any dumber or smarter than women, as it turns out. They don't think in a hive. They think individually. It will likely always be that way. Again, I'm not sure where I ever said I think women are dumb. Didn't you accuse me of reading only what I wanted to read--or some such goofiness?

I get what you don't understand. I get why it's threatening to you. Maybe think about it. Maybe it begins to make some sense. If there's going to be such a thing as a men's rights group--and your attitude strongly suggests one is justified and necessary--I hope they're be intentional about asking themselves those kinds of questions. Because ONLY through that process can we end the CYCLE of grievance. Remains to be seen. Men are human, and humans make significant errors. I'd encourage men to answer those same questions.

Exactly which words in "women just want equality, equal oportunity and equal pay didnt you understand? This is not a me only thing.

The words feminists say when they're arguing for equal pay when they already make more than men or exceed men significantly in college. I get it. You don't give a good-god-damn about men. Trust me. We've seen the sentiment for decades. Now, we're going to push back, if that's what's needed. It was necessary when women had to start pushing back. Did women learn anything? Apparently not. There is a way forward for everyone. Feminism isn't it. Men's rights groups isn't it either. Everyone's interest in real equality is. Feminists have gone too far, and a lot of women are starting to lament what feminists have built. I guess you're just ignoring it, because there have been a number of posts by women here saying feminists have gone too far.

But if you need to ask "what will women do when equality is fully achieved? They will contribute their intelligence of course, in ways they were never free to before, for the benefit of the WHOLE planet not just humans. How can you not work these simple things out for yourself?

Seems like women are already doing that. Seems like they are free to do that now. You're doing it, right? You're being an asshole just as good as any man. Congratulations. When do you put your weapons down? Hopefully, it will be before men pick there's up. I know you'll have no idea some men are already arming themselves, but is that the best way to go? I'd say no, but then there's you, so maybe it's the wisest move for men to make in the struggle for equality. There's that damn cycle, right? Is that complicated for you? Can you get there on your own?

@skyebellau, I'm great! You're not abusing your wife or your cat are you?

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Hello. Look how much attention these T-shirts are attracting. Clever marketing, no? They're just T-shirts with slogans to me. Or does the seller have a political agenda or something? Then, I'd better be careful not to sleepwalk into it...

Naomi Level 8 June 1, 2019

Hello skyebellau. Stats - no. But 'There is no such thing as bad publicity' - isn't that the phrase you use in English? Gillette uses the same ploy, I think.

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All the censorship talk/happing and this is such a important post it gets pinned?

@CanuckAmok funny coming from the originator of the first and only private group of IDW ADMIN APPROVED. OPEN MOUTH INSERT FOOT! 🤔😁🤗🤣

@CanuckAmok just here for the screenshot don't owe you nothing.

@CanuckAmok assuming much are you? And as far as the group goes I did not want it. It was given to me and before I could get out of PM with admin you had your jibbs flappin so leave it. And the screenshots are not to get you ban no no admin wants me ban. They will serve a greater perposes. I told you and one more time only I will not be verbally abused by anyone. Like me or not. Admin allowed to happen to boo And me and others and it will end. This conversation is over.

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Yes
And people should be allowed to buy and wear clothing like this so the rest can call them out as trolls or infantile fools. Giving them the response they are fishing for

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