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25 8

Are poor black Americans already receiving "slavery reparations" in the form of receiving more from the government than collected in taxes? If so, is it enough? If so, why is not mentioned? Should it be?

Every election cycle, the topic of reparations comes up from Democrats seeking to solidify the black vote (see [cbsnews.com] ). They know that many black Americans feel that slavery and lingering racism have conspired to keep them from reaching economic equality.

It is true that whites, on average, earn more than blacks ($61k/year vs $38.5k/year [en.wikipedia.org] ). This different helps whites amass ten times as much household wealth as blacks. I could not find any statistics that shows the difference in average tax paid by these groups. However, since the US has a progressive income tax with over 70% of all taxes paid by the 10% income earners, the difference in income suggests that blacks pay far less per capita than whites (see [ntu.org] ... yes, with racist bar chart color choices).

Let me be clear, the topic question is setup to be a bit provocative and I realize that the topics of income inequality and racism are much more complicated than revealed in a few financial stats. A poor person would gladly trade positions with a rich person and pay corresponding taxes.

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17

I was born into a drug using, criminal family. My childhood was a confusing series of homes, foster homes and insitutions. One foster home in particular stands out. A woman of volcanic temper and inventive cruelty. I survived her, but the next child didn't.

I spent years hating her. I spent years raging at her cruelty; at the love and affirmation she never gave. I wanted my childhood back. I wanted reparations. It never happened, and it doesn't matter.

As an adult, I realized forgiveness was not my gift to her, but to myself. Every moment I spent hating her was a moment she still dominated me. And, at any rate, the things I really wanted were were impossible for anyone to give, much less her.

Slavery steals lives and legal standing from people. Jim Crowe laws protected people who tried to do the same. Their real injuries, however, are matters of time and heart, not money.

And remember, forgiveness is not something you give to your enemy, it's something you give to yourself.

While I am sorry for the trials you went through, it appears to me that it made you a better person. I totally agree with you the carrying hatred in your heart hurts you not the one you hate. When I was young I carried in need for vengeance, which I carried out several times. It did me no good. I came up with a philosophy, it's very simple. If you're walking down the road and you find a shitty stick and pick it up to carry it with you that is your problem. The freedom you feel when you throw the stick away is undeniably good.

By far I did not have the trials you have had. You should be proud of yourself bringing yourself above them. Best wishes.

@DAN_STL

amen, brother

My relationship with my biological mother...you and I are FREE!

I love what you've said. I can't imagine a childhood like yours. Thanks for sharing.

Politicians and media use hatred inspired Inferences to divide and conquer. We are not born with hatred of different races. We are fed the constant message in school, on TV 'news', political speeches, and our parents who became disillusioned through their life. Tribes in Muslim countries hate each other based on religion? No based on tribe where they learned to hate.

12

"These objections are often urged with a show of sincere solicitude for the welfare of the slaves themselves. It is said, what will you do with them? they can't take care of themselves; they would all come to the North; they would not work; they would become a burden upon the State, and a blot upon society;"

"What shall be done with them?

Our answer is, do nothing with them; mind your business, and let them mind theirs. Your doing with them is their greatest misfortune. They have been undone by your doings, and all they now ask, and really have need of at your hands, is just to let them alone. They suffer by every interference, and succeed best by being let alone."

"As colored men, we only ask to be allowed to do with ourselves, subject only to the same great laws for the welfare of human society which apply to other men, Jews, Gentiles, Barbarian, Sythian. Let us stand upon our own legs, work with our own hands, and eat bread in the sweat of our own brows. When you, our white fellow countrymen, have attempted to do anything for us, it has generally been to deprive us of some right, power or privilege which you yourself would die before you would submit to have taken from you."

"The great majority of human duties are of this negative character. If men were born in need of crutches, instead of having legs, the fact would be otherwise. We should then be in need of help, and would require outside aid; but according to the wiser and better arrangement of nature, our duty is done better by not hindering than by helping our fellowmen; or, in other words, the best way to help them is just to let them help themselves."

[rbscp.lib.rochester.edu]

Asked and answered by the best person to respond, Frederick Douglass, Former Slave, Intrepid Spokesman for Emancipation, Great American Treasure

RobBlair Level 8 July 20, 2019
12

The idea of reparations for ancestors that were enslaved is absurd, if you personally were not enslaved etc then you would not be entitled to any reparations as you weren't the one who directly suffered. I strongly believe those who are pushing for reparations in regards to slavery in the US are prejudiced themselves.

You have that exactly right.

10

The plight of the modern American black person in the inner city is far more a by product of the welfare state than slavery.
Color is far less a barrier to success than coming from a single parent home. Lack of a high school education and early pregnancy outside of wedlock.
The welfare state rewards unwed uneducated women with children. Conversely it refuses to help families with a father in the home that are on the margins of poverty.
That is not to say that the stain of slavery has no effect. But that has as much to do with history not being taught in its totality. I might feel inferior to others if I believed that my people were enslaved exclusively. I’d venture that the fact that all people have been enslaved throughout history would put that in better perspective.

There’s been lots of “water under the bridge” that has worked both for blacks and against whites AND vice-versa since 1865. There’s no way in hell that anything could be worked out that provided a semblance of fairness to today’s populace.

It is also the product of a socialist public education=controlled information education/brainwashing.

9

Assuming a “formula” could be established for determining who would receive reparations (it can’t, IMO), the formula would be under constant pressure to be adjusted, new groups would be identified as qualified for reparations, and the program would grow in perpetuity. In short, it would never be enough ... there would always be more reasons to pay more and more.

Garsco Level 7 July 20, 2019

Perpetual racial extortion

You are absolutely correct. While my family has been here in the United States since 1632, perhaps I would have a shot at reparations. My oldest ancestor, 9th great-grandfather, was an indentured servant. My 7th great-grandfather was a
Huguenot who was evicted from France. Perhaps I should contact the French government for reparations? Perhaps I should contact the British government for reparations due to the indentures of the Virginia Company?

The entire discussion of reparations makes me almost ill. What it does is cement victimhood on fellow citizens. That applies to both black and white citizens.

We cannot dwell on, or correct, the abuses of the past. Two sides. Africans who were enslaved, were enslaved by other Africans, or Arabs. The victimhood of all non-whites should be question thoroughly.

A good of example of this is the Cherokee trail of tears. Certainly it was a terrible thing. However, it completely ignores the history of the Cherokee. How many were aware that during the revolutionary war the Cherokee were supplied by the British with arms and attacked white settlers across the colonies? How do I know this? I study history. Also, one of my great uncles was a lieutenant in the Virginia militia during the revolutionary war, and went to war against the Cherokee all the way to what is now West Virginia.

8

Slavery
No living American has been a slave or owned one.
That era was generations ago, in a different era. Very few people could read and write. Most Americans were geographically isolated, and never saw anyone Of a difference race or culture. The Large northern cities were totally segregated. They had polish, Irish, Colored, Italian, Swedish, German, Jewish, Catholic, and wasp.
Only rich people could afford it anyway. This has never been a white people problem, it’s a rich people problem and not all of them were white.
That’s just the way it was. Not your fault. Not my fault.
This is purely political.
Democrats have no real issues, and couldn’t solve a problem if it flew up their nose anyway. They create BS issues, divide us every way possible and then blame everyone else.
Face it, America’s enemies paid dying media to put a Islamist in the presidency and he and the anti American, leftist regime, made us hate and fear each other.
Americans won’t vote for them so they have to let illegal aliens vote for them.
Turn them off and Vote RED !

David42 Level 7 July 20, 2019
8

If we are going to pay reparations, what formula will we use to determent who gets how much???
If you are Black, what percentage? Is there white or some other race in your genes? Did any of your Black ancestors come from Africa after 1865? Were those ancestors or their ancestors involved in slave trading in Africa before their came to North America.
My wife was born and raised in Canada and is a naturalized citizen, how much should she pay??
My Great Grand Father and his bother (wounded in the battle) fought at Gettysburg in Blue uniforms, How much does my family owe?
Bottom line, there is no fair way to decide who owes, who how much.
The best way to improve every bodies life is to OUTLAW WELFARE, put every one on equal footing. Use the tax money saved to improve all of our lives.
I understand poor, I grew up poor, but I never asked for nor received any handouts. I have earned every thing I have and I don't what to hear "WHITE PRIVILEGE", that is another discussion!!!!!!!!! (I am not all WHITE either).

Serg97 Level 7 July 19, 2019

These are just some of the problems presented by this idea, but yes.

7

Seeing as 600,000 Americans died to liberate the slaves shouldn’t that be enough.

It's more than that. A bunch of white people and their institutions, starting with the Puritans and the Methodists and the Quakers, fought through an English revolution and then finally got slavery outlawed in England. They BECAME the "Yankees" who finally came to power in the North in the USA and did the same there.

I absolutely cannot imagine anybody in Africa doing the same. They were too busy selling their enemies to the Arabs and then the Spanish and Portuguese and then Catholic US southerners and anybody who would take them.

There are people of both races on both sides of this. But it's incontrovertible that black people didn't free themselves. Mostly, a hell of a lot of white people did that, with their blood and treasure, and it started WAY before 1861.

7

The concept of reparations presents all kinds of difficulties:

Who gets reparations? How much? Who should pay them and why? Is there a certain threshold for % of "African blood" you must have to qualify (similar to belonging to a Native American tribe?)? Does this affect how much one should get? Why should collectives pay reparations to other collectives when there is no individual alive at fault for past injustices associated with slavery directly? Does this defeat the purpose of individual rights...and promote the concept of mob rule and mob justice given that individuals are not at fault for slavery in the present time? Is our current welfare/safety net system a form of reparations already for those experiencing hardship...reparations for the the failure of society supposedly to lift them up?

We all know identity politics is the life raft upon which Democrats make their gains and sustain their membership. But in what world are these reparations justice and how could they be so? Strangely enough all welfare appears to have done for the Black community is close the loop on a perfect poverty trap. On the eve of the Civil Rights movement the Black community was rising out of the ashes like every other immigrant group that has come to America and establishing itself before the advent of Great Society programs and the Drug War. Instead of reparations, I think we should be thinking about how our institutions have inflicted either intentional or unintentional incalculable harm upon the Black community. Institutions born of law and bureaucracy. These institutions can be removed...institutions such as public education in the inner cities, the prison industry complex, the Drug War, city planning regulations, welfare that disincentives work...etc. Makes much more sense than making a poor stab at contrived and desperate collective justice born out of in-group identity with nothing more to back it.

Agreed. The Democrats are (inadvertently) implementing policies which perpetuate poverty and anxiety in the
"black" community. I reiterate: "I would like to discard any differentiation between people based on skin colour, "race", gender or ideology. We need to deal with people based on their actions."

@pbuck0145 Yeah we should. But if they want to play that game and look at themselves as some sort of collective, first address the myriad of institutional problems plaguing their collective community. That's really what it comes down to. Don't need to curtail individual freedom to accomplish this goal.

7

The son being punished for the crimes of his father? Why is this ok? What about all of the whites who never owned slaves? What about having Africans whose great great great grand parents, sold the slaves into their bondage paying up? Muslims made lots of money from slavery yet I haven't heard of any claims against them. What about blacks who did well? Do we get to not pay Oprah and Whoopi and all of those pro athletes or black doctors or lawyers? It comes down to what you do to overcome a challenge, not that you have a challenge.

6

I would like to discard any differentiation between people based on skin colour, "race", gender or ideology. We need to deal with people based on their actions.

"differentiation between people based on skin colour, "race", gender or ideology."

pretty much sums up the narrative of the political left.

Ideology leads to actions, so it's better to differentiate on those grounds. Far better than what skin you have. Fighting over Gods seems pretty dumb, though. Fighting over killing babies--that one we don't fight over, but it's more justifiable. Fighting over money or how we identify--worth it. I don't want the left's America, so that's a worthwhile fight to me.

When our legal system runs on money that’s a little hard.

@Babou, yeah, that's exactly one of the ideological fights. I think if we have to differentiate, we're better off differentiating on the basis of ideology. You can't have immigration laws and limits AND open borders in it's purest sense--which, I think is people are awarded all rights based on being present. There is room for compromise in there, but that's not what's going on. There is no compromise between what the left says they want NOW and what the non-left wants. That's a decent reason to fight that isn't based on some arbitrary immutable attribute, like genitals or skin.

5

The current welfare system is little more than a financial honey trap. It warps incentive, motivation, morality and self reliance just as it is designed to do. As for reparations that is just a divisive talking point designed to affirm racist suspicions and reinforce the democrat party's claim to being the only hope and advocate for black people. The welfare system is not reparations. It is a bit in the mouth of those that use it to remain in blighted, broken backwaters where their exploitation and suffering is the only reparation they recieve for their blind angry allegiance and vote extraction!

5

The question of whether welfare benefits to blacks specifically benefits them is wrong, as every poor American gets those benefits, even the polka dot ones. If you want to know how wrong, such a classical liberal as Milton Friedman called for a minimum income for all poor of around 12,000 dollars. Friedman s argument is we are giving that amount in subsidies anyway, so why not give each poor person that amount and let them spend it any way they want. I expect the specifics of his plan would be to do away with food stamps, and possibly public housing, but likely not HUD.

The Left in the US are engaged in a white, and a special interest group, and a collective form of "race baiting." It s exactly what Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and others used to bait whites with. But now the white Leftists use it, each of the special interest groups use it, and the media uses it all the time.

Well I don t agree with this plan of a minimum income. It s the same plan proposed by the Labour Party in the UK. I think I heard in an interview of a Labour Socialist that it was called a "minimum income." All the people on such an income will be clamoring for a raise from their bosses, the Socialists or the liberals. They will also be clamoring for extra goodies like free health care and a better guaranteed pension. It would dissolve the wall between the private sector, where people work and sweat, and the public sector. They might even form an "employees union.' and then the UK and US would really be in trouble. At least now the poor person has to humbly go to get his food stamps, or his free housing, and feel grateful for the handouts. Let the poor person on the street who is begging for a handout stay humble, and when you give him a dollar let him be eternally grateful.

As to reparations? If there were 10,000 families behind the Civil War, let the slaves as well as the dead and maimed, all sue these plantation owners for the slavery, the Civil War, and the deaths and injuries which followed. Find the slave owners descendents, and sue them. Surely those killed or maimed, losing limbs or suffering from permanent head trauma, deserve as much as the freed slaves. If the black man sues the government, who called for America s worst war, and all that killing, on his behalf, it s a can of worms. Personally, being Welsh and Irish, I d love to go to the UK and sue those who kept me as a slave, called a serf.

But the Left loves to destroy, and in this case the Marxists and Cultural Marxists want to destroy all our attachments to the past, so their Utopia of the Marxist state can be erected. It s important to remember first principles, and from a Marxist viewpoint, the Utopia is the primary first principle, that to which all things aim. The attempt to break apart "e pluribus unum," and cause all the factions their Marxist ploys have created, through Identity politics, and postmodernism, is simply an attempt at destroying our American and capitalist identity, everything which got us, and the world, to where we are today.

Simply look at the attempts of Marxists to destroy our American identity, as an attempt to replace "e pluribus unum" with the Marxist state and utopia on earth. The Preamble to the Constitution is a type of summary:

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Cultural Marxism lies far below the first principle the Marxists live and die for, which is their Utopia on earth. The "race baiting," the sexual immorality, the transgender identity confusion(even at the age of 5), and especially the radical feminist movement, all are attempts to destroy the good, and the common good, which is "e pluribus unum." It would surprise most people that the leading Marxist intellectual in Europe, Lukas, was writing about implementing these cultural Marxist ploys, as attempts to undermine Western Europe, and the US, as early as 1930. Marcuse, in the 1960 s, was saying that he thought "the coalescing of black power, the radical feminists and sexual immorality was the formula with which to bring down the US(I paraphrase). The old Bernie Sanders, classical Marxist model, wasn t working. The classical model said everything in the Marxist playbook operated from one fulcrum, that the oppressors, the bourgeoisie, were able to control the wage earners, the oppressed, so the oppressors were able to gain capital(wealth and property) and the wage earners could not.

It s important to know that the first principle of a Marxist, the Utopian state, or "heaven on earth," is how they are always looking at the world and each of us. The operating principle of attaining that Utopia, is to take away all capital from the capitalists, or the oppressors, and give it to the oppressed, the wage earners. It s as simple as that.

Cultural Marxism is simply attempts to destroy, to cause mass chaos, and to uproot all of the past of a population and a country so the Marxist Utopia can be attained.

@Don_Provolone It s a race, to see who is going to beat the other to take over the world; Christ in the 2nd Coming or the Marxist dictator, or your ex.

4

Reparations were paid by the dead United States Army Soldiers and the United States Treasury in full as of 1865. It was the United States government that freed the slaves. The Democrat National Committee who lost the Civil War is the only existing entity responsible for Slavery in North America who has not yet paid adequate restitution.

Facci Level 7 July 20, 2019
4

My brother took one of those DNA tests. It said he was 98 percentile of how much Neanderthal he has. Meaning, he has more Neanderthal DNA then 98% of the population. I think he deserves reparations from black people for wiping out his entire race.

Seriously though, let's look at the numbers. The top 10% owns something like 75% of the wealth. Your average per year numbers don't take this into account. The majority of the top 10% is probably white. So your entire premise is based on 10% of the population skewing the numbers drastically. Now, if the top 10% is actually mostly white (I have no numbers to back this up) is it because of systemic racism, or because there are actually more white people then black people and the law of averages just works out that way?

Or, maybe the black community has actually regressed over time. The percentage of black people in prison has actually increased over the decades. The percentage of black single parents has increased as well in that time. On odd correlation being the amount of welfare being distributed to black people has also increased. Perhaps the "reparations" (welfare) and special treatment (affirmative action) has lead to this great disparity. Perhaps adding even more reparations will only make things worse.

I don't know, just thoughts.

Judah80 Level 7 July 20, 2019
3

Pointless to even debate because time lapse and migratory patterns make quantifying this into an equation completely impossible ■

Let's look at more recent inequities between grievance groups and see which ones have benefited without any sacrifices or responsibilities and those that shouldered responsibility and made sacrifices above and beyond to the point of their own lives deteriorating, especially after divorce and hoisted upon them by government favoring the damsels claiming need. Let's see 🤔🤔🤔 Who may we be talking about? What demographic commits suicide at 8:1 over their counterparts post government raping of their income, time, mental health, rights to their children, mockery of their collective reputation as a gender... If you don't know who I'm referring to you are willfully ignorant and likely a worshiper of half the population because that's what you've been trained to do...worship them.

Btw, this is the best comment in this thread. My first point with full stop shuts it down because it's a fool's errand. Next, I expose the one and only true group that has any real and legitimate grievance ■

2

Every politics based on group identity is harmful and creates only more division and unequality. Black Americans should acknowledge the fact that being born in America makes them Americans not Afro-Americans and being poor have nothing to do with slavery. There are plenty poor white people out there in the world and white people were slaves too. Can we close that chapter once and for all! The problem is not the history of slavery but slave mentality, some sort of a victim hood! No one said life is gonna be easy!

LukeGP Level 6 July 21, 2019

The left play the race card because they have no real issues to solve. They make up issues and blame Republicans .

1

Should the Egyptians pay reparations to the Jews for all the years they were kept in slavery? How about the Babylonians? Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves.

1

This “Topic of the Day” is way too long and convoluted to give a reasonable response to in all of its aspects.
All of the facets are of value and worth a good answer but ...
I’d have to write a book to respond equitably.

I wouldn't. Dicing up people and pitting them against each other is a losing strategy for any country seeking harmony and prosperity. It only serves to advantage the shit-slingers.

It would be a very short book.

@jwhitten
Well, I think it’s deeper than that.
As to “reparations”?
No. I think that entire concept is dogsh*t.
Not only is it ridiculous but ... where would you start?
The Assyrians did horrible stuff to the Babylonians and Sumerians and I’m sure that there’s someone around that would claim ...

@Bay0Wulf Indeed.

CopOut.

@David42
You ought to maybe read some of the responses I’ve made before you throw that crap at the wall.
Perhaps try expanding both you own vocabulary and thought processes before making one word comments that reveal you as factually insipid as your icon is in fantasy.

@Bay0Wulf SenSa Tiv
Sorry I’ll try to be less insensitive

@David42
No ...
You be You and I’ll just ignore You.
See? All fixed.

1

Reparation is a dangerous road to go down because nobody knows how far it can go.

Or rather everybody knows exactly how far it can go.

Fixed it for ya.

0

Who brought those original slaves to the African Coast to be loaded on the slave ships??????
Maybe we should talk to their families!!!

Serg97 Level 7 Feb 27, 2020
0

Reparations were paid in full by the lives and the hallowed sacrifice of the 360,000+ Union Soldiers that died in the Civil War ! The lives and dreams never realized by these brave men would forever be denigrated and cheapened by reparations !

owldo Level 2 Nov 2, 2019
0

There are many more 'white' people on welfare than 'blacks' and the welfare psychology keeps them down.

0

They know that many black Americans feel that slavery and lingering racism have conspired to keep them from reaching economic equality---- Fact is racism does exist but my perception is they are told this message and then it comes true in everything they experience. I like an environment filled with opportunities to succeed rather than a welfare environment where any group of people get accustomed to living on handouts from the government. In welfare the government controls the person. In individual success the person moves toward freedom and control of their own life.

0

Some African-Americans are still psychologically enslaved by the people and institutions who benefit from that situation.

People who advocate reparations are one such group.

Tdonald Level 7 Oct 29, 2019

Sounds just like the Democratic "Plantation" ,,,,,, !

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