its manipulation and guilt tripping for sure

I think men teeter on that thin line of convincing women to have sex with them and coercing women to have sex with them. I think when you are desperate, you cross that line once in a while and no one likes doing that. I know I've done it a couple of times when I was younger where I'm trying too hard to give reasons why they should sleep with me or playfully arguing with them about having sex. Trust me, I didn't like having to do that. You feel like a car salesman trying to convince a potential buyer to buy it from you. I should have been like a Mercedes dealer, the car sells itself.

Now that I'm a bit older, I'd never do that again. If I was still dating, I'd give it an "Are you sure?" one time and that's it. I'm all about enjoyable sex and willing sex for both parties. I'm more self confident sexually and if they say no, I feel like it's their loss. It's not meant to be cocky but I take my sexual relationships seriously and pleasure for both parties seriously. Coercing sex is a desperation tactic...I'm no longer desperate.

To me, different concepts.Guilt, shameless begging, , whatever - that's a choice if you yield to it. I'm a straight male, and I have yielded to pressure of that sort from women (not ).Not a wise idea, but not all bad. It's not like I was fucking someone I disliked, or found unattractive; it just was not a good idea. On the other hand, we had fun, physical contact, whatever you want to say. Later regret from a more rational analysis does not change the reality of consent.

Coercion, to me, is a completely different concept and pretty much the opposite of consent. I am not at risk of being coerced outside of a prison setting, so on that side I don't worry about it. From my understanding - yeah, that would be rape in both the legal and realistic senses. That by definition, does not involve "consent", and I am not going to take that road. I am physically capable of it as a relatively big strong male, but it repels me. I am not even good at playing rough with a partner. I'm disgusting and more than a little slutty - but dangerous? Oh hell no.

Just putting this out there, but in my line of work, I read a lot of police reports. I have read a countless number of reports about sexual coercion, which may or may not be criminal, depending on details of the incident. I have never seen or heard of a situation where a person was coerced into sex because of guilt over genital preference.

I'm not defending the argument about genital preferences, because I don't personally think it's wrong or anything-phobic to have a preference. But I think that the discussion is meant to be a broad, philosophical one, not a bullying tactic to get an uninterested person to have sex with you.

Coercion isn't rape. Guilting isn't rape. These are ways of extracting consent. It might not be enthusiastic consent, you may hate yourself for giving in to someone's manipulation but it is consent. Regret is not rape. Calling coercion rape is like calling a ultimatum extortion or buying someone a gift as an apology bribery. Actual Rape doesn't require any manipulation tactics. It doesn't need them. It's not a way to extract consent. It doesn't care about consent. It is a total violation of someone's rights and bodily autonomy. Calling coercion rape cheapens that violation. It puts it on the same level as a charity trying to get you to donate to their cause by showing you pictures of sick kids in public.

Also, Strip clubs! There are millions of them. In big cities and in small towns. It's a 75 billion dollar worldwide industry. Less than 5 percent of strip clubs cater to a female clientele. What's the point of that little factoid? I don't think women understand the average male sexual experience. It is dominated by rejection. Unless you hit the genetic lottery, if your lucky your success rate of women receptive to your advances is going to be about 20% and maybe you'll sleep with a couple seeing is the average amount of sexual partners a man will have in his lifetime is 7. Sex is a biological need for most people and men experience so much rejection that they will spend money to watch a women simulate sex on a brass pole to help satisfy their needs. Millions of them around the world! That biological need is is like our need for food. Some people if they get a lack of food get hangery. Where they become extremely irritable and lash out randomly. That's also true with sex. Some people get hongry. Where lack of sex does the same thing. It doesn't excuse their behavior but it does explain it.

It's certainly rape-y to pressure, guilt, and nag someone into sexual relationships with you but at the same time grown humans have to make big decisions. I've had to tell all of my progressive friends fuck off because of this subject. Telling something they are a transphobe if they won't have sex with you is no different than telling someone they will go to hell if they have sex with someone of the same sex.

This worries me too, I am still confused with my sexuality I knew I wasn't a gay man in that I didn't want to be a man with another man. I thought I was straight because I seemed interested in women, but then I hated my body so much I just wanted to be their friend unless I drank and shut my brain off. Which I knew was a terrible idea as I didn't want to hurt anyone. Now you are made to feel like a bad person if genitals matter to you and made to feel obligated to give them a chance. I honestly don't know how this isn't seen as a negative effect.