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Is the religion of Islam homophobic? Is it right to criticize it the same we do as other religions?

ariellescarcella 7
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0

Replying here rather than on youtube. any faith path that says you have to kill those that don't walk the same path as you is an abomination unto the Gods. in the old days several ages ago all faiths make sacrifice of animals and sometimes people. now we only sacrifice our time in service to each other in the name of our God. Islam is not evolving to suit the new world that is unfolding it is stagnating and becoming bitter and actively trying to hold the world in the 7th century. including the false thought about the sun taking a mud bath when it sets. so you ask do i think Islam is scared of homosexuals. no i think they have found their answer to that along time ago. they don't fear them they will simply kill anyone or anything that is against their holy book.

0

Wrong on so many levels where do I start...

I'm Muslim and don't hate anyone who doesn't hate me. It's untrue to say Islam teaches hatred of anyone, especially a oppressed minority. Yes, we believe the act of sodomy and changing the body you've been given are both sins as defined by Allah in the Qur'an but so does it say that alcohol and sex outside marriage is wrong but I'm not condemning or supporting those that do these things but the acts are clearly not good for society. Disprove Islam before expecting us to abandon it.

Islam is the souce of our morality, that draws the lines at where our desires are detrimental to us. Today it's sodomy tomorrow it's incest and beastiality. Interestingly neither of these can be shown as wrong under the "harm principal" and "consent", so why is it still illegal and wrong? This inconsistency needs justifying before you expect us to accept it.

There is scientific evidence to suggest the act of sodomy is detrimental for the health of the participants and for the wider society. There is evidence to suggest that many trans people have deeper psychological issues that don't necessitate a change of sex. Shouldn't this be addressed before normalising this behaviour? Not forgetting, it would be impinging on our freedom of believe to force us to support something we believe is wrong. Justify these inconsistencies in your own beliefs, before expecting us to accept it.

Jawaad Level 1 Sep 14, 2020

I am only going to address the transsexual aspect of your comment: I, we, don't need to address a 'fact' that changing one's sex (the hormonal and secondary sex characteristics) is harmful to some people because it is NOT harmful to most who do so - in fact, medically and psychologically, it is quite beneficial. Taking too much aspirin is harmful but we don't make aspirin illegal (or even hard to get). So, just because something is harmful to someone doesn't make it bad or wrong. Appropriateness is important, whether it be changing sex or using aspirin. And I get that those are VERY different things - ie life changing. Yet, it is important to recognize that changing sex IS BENEFICIAL and therefore not a blanket harmful that needs to be prevented.

As it applies to Islam: The gentlemen in the video makes clear that Islam actively sanctions attempts to modernize or change it to be more accepting of individual rights. I think if someone wants to BE Moslem then that is their right - what they can't do is impose aspects of their religion on others, even within their own (adult) family members (unfortunately, my argument means that teens can be harmed emotionally, at a minimum, for being trans or gay but I do believe even there, there has to be some restrictions on the practice of Islam). Pointing out that Islam is anti-gay, anti-trans, and very restrictive towards the rights of women is not Islamophobic, it is criticizing practices that are anti-individual rights. I am not seeking to eradicate Islam, or Christianity or Judaism. I seek to prevent adherents from infringing upon OTHERS rights while they believe they are exercising their religious rights. And attempts to shut down ANY criticism of Islam by calling the commenter Islamophobic is an attempt to infringe (by intimidation) on their rights.

Justify your acceptance of Islam however you wish, note that not everyone is devout or believes all aspects, but acknowledge that gay, trans or ex-Muslims are fundamentally endangered by Islam.

0

Hi ! I am Gay and from Germany with Turkish roots. As said in the Video ,Homosexuality and orthodox Abrahamic religions do not fit in the first glance.

But nothing is pure Black or White . The Islamic Culture and traditions in all times has to deal with men attracted to other mens. Its all about Duality. Female and Male . Many homosexual men are „ accepted " as women . With todays point of view it indeed misogyny. The wife you have to marry has to be an virgin. Young men have to get through their puberty . Many Muslim men have bisexual experiences. Double standards. Be gay but do not shout it loud.

The keyword is not inclusion or acceptance its tolerance. The Islamic society tolerate closeted gay men . In my opinion orthodox Islam is able to progress like Judaism or Christianity.

I grew up in 1980 in a orthodox ( sunnit) Family and i had to go to catholic/protestant religion class due to the german school law ( Nowadays you can also choose ethic ) . And it was ok for my family. They where immigrants and has to follow liberal rules.

The main difference between Christianity and Islam is in my view the figure of Jesus. And the term salvation / forgiveness. ( Jesus died for the original sin of the humanity ) And despite the wrath abrahamic white, male god of the old testament you have also a god who can give you salvation. The concept of hell in Islam and damnation for Muslim people is always : There is an exit.

That sounds very medieval and backward also fearful.

Yes orthodox Islamic culture is homophobic but there are elements in the Qoran who can give solace and hope for progress, especially for homosexual men.

Traditional Patriarchy on the one hand but also the behavior of woman who raised their male and female children differently, especially the power status of a mother which gave birth to a boy are the true barrier the Islamic society has to overcome.

Sorry for double post . I can't delete the first attempts.

Bekind Level 1 Sep 14, 2020
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Yes we should treat all people the same. I am against any group or people that hate others just because their religion says so. I have a problem with people being killed because they are gay or black. People weather it is for religion or just plain old hate should be held in the same contempt as the kkk, or Hitler. Just because its a religion should be condemned just the same. And we should be able to talk about it just because it spreads hate.

0

I had this idea in my head for a while that the reason Islam hasn't evolved liked the other Abrahamic faiths on rights for gays and women and is so violent is because of the sacking of Baghdad in 1258. Islam started with this duality which mirrors the duality of the prophet Muhammad. The philosopher who told his people that " kindness is a mark of Faith. Whoever has no kindness has no faith. " And the warrior who slaughtered and enslaved the tribes of Banu Qurayza after they surrendered. These two sides pretty much balance each other out for the most part. With the philosophical end of the religion going on to create Islamic golden age, influencing mathematics and thought around the world while the Warriors we're off conquering foreign lands. But this all changed when the Mongol hordes entered Baghdad and burned it to the ground. The philosophers were gone. The House of Wisdom was destroyed. Islam was brought to its knees. The only ones left were the martyrs off conquering places like India. They picked up the pieces and rebuilt Islam in their image. From 1258 until now all Islamic thought has been dominated by warriors. Warriors don't ask questions. With generation after generation of Muslims being taught to unquestioningly obey and their thought leaders pushing to keep things exactly as the prophet would have done but emphasizing the warrior side of him without also including the peaceful philosophical side...well that's a recipe for a shit show.

The biggest issue that Islam and Christianity share is using a human as the ideal of God's will. Human's are fundamentally flawed and can't come close to representing GOD's will but they can teach others the path of being better. Chirstians just made Jesus GOD to overcome this problem but m Muslims still have a chance to see the prophet not as obeying God's will perfectly but seeing the flawed man who did his best and showed the path for others to follow leaving the job of being better to the next generation of Muslims. But that's a pipe dream at this point.

0

You would make a video about homophobia and Islam.

that is literally the video i just posted haha

@ariellescarcella Eeh!

@ariellescarcella People are not sheep, they're a herd of asses that won't get out the fucking way! - you know cause a jackass is stubborn. Do girls know how strange they are? One man says to another man," bro I think my girlfriend might be slightly retarded." His friend asks," why do you say that?" The man says," she keeps making weird faces and taking pictures. Then she sends them to people. Yesterday she thought she was a duck. I don't know what's wrong with her!" We are the Elite Segregated Mulicolored Hippos... Killing a brain cell away, keeps the derp. Next time you pass a homeless person say, hey there's sixty thousand dollars, all that we need is a cooler. Because people have a kidney they don't need.
Anyone know of any good dumpster diving locations? HA, nice try, get your own dumpster!
When the cops come and ask you what you're doing while dumpster diving a Barn's and Noble, just say, trying to get an education. Because they sell books.
Or when they ask say, looking for a new girlfriend, because my girl is a dumpster hoe.

1

Yes... And yes... Very simple... 🙂

1

@Thaw Yeah I don't see any "reply" button anywhere...but the FAQ said to @ them. Anyways I agree with your comment that the word "homophobe" is incorrect and honestly I never call people that word cause it's kinda cringey, although I kinda did just call you one, maybe we should come up with a new word for people who don't like gay people. It's kinda like how the word "racist" doesn't usually mean discrimination, it's kinda used as a way of signifying hatred of non white people. And so "homophobia" isn't really used to signify a fear, it's more just a way of categorizing people who are revolted by gay people. So are you implying that my love of gay people is a pathology as opposed to your normal and appropriate disgust of their/our behaviour? What is the logical conclusion of this way of thinking? That it's appropriate to be revolted by gay men? and inappropriate to like them? Revulsion leads to hate crimes and Matthew Sheppard being tortured and left for dead: that's what the normalization of the disgust of gay men leads to.

@Thaw a nuanced comment. Ok. My gut reaction is to point out that people are not seduced into homosexuality - it is an innate characteristic of their personality. Yes, it is a minority population with somewhat greater influence in culture. However, I think it's influence is more consistent with an orientation to bisexuality in a MUCH LARGER portion of the population.

Given homosexuality is in every society, in all classes, and has been such historically, it is a NORMAL result in humanity, even if that normal result is a small minority. The USA is built on the ideal of protecting individual rights - not society's desire to be uniform....it's definition of "normal".

0

@thaw Not everybody is revolted by grown men acting like teenage girls though. There needs to be a name for people who are revolted by such things. Hmmmm....How about a homophobe?

homohaters, homoaggressives, homohate, homoanger?

1

Hail Satan. Satan doesn't hate gay people. Embracing Satan doesn't mean embracing wickedness, embracing Satan means embracing rebellion against the hypocrisy of the dominant religion.

@CharliePrime That's cute but adults are trying to have a conversation here.

No offense but I find that a little weird. Creating a religion to point out the hypocrisy of religion is like hating Pizza hut and starting up a pizza shack restaurant chain. You're putting a lot of effort and energy to say fuck you when you just can say fuck you.

@SoftWerker where are the Adults then? pointless rebellion is the action of a that doesn't understand yet thinks it knows .

0

Just as well start with whether or not Mohammad is a historical person. Same is true for Christ. Even if they are there are some strange transformation in the message in the case of Mohamand between Mecca and Medina and after Christ's death. You see a similar phenomenon with Buddhism as it transforms from philosophy to religion after Buddha's death. Interesting how new ideas are transformed as cultures try to accommodate them.

I'm the case of homosexuality the culture that existed prior to the new religions emerging probably has a lot to do with the prohibition.

0

Trying to combat Islamaphobia doesn't mean you can't criticize the detestable things within the Muslim religion, such as the rampant misogyny, homophobia, extremism, etc. I know I sure as hell do, just as I criticize the same terrible things within Christianity and Judaism. Islamaphobia is different and has nothing to do with genuine criticism of the religion, just as you can be critical of the actions of Israel while not being anti-Semitic. Islamaphobia should be denounced because freedom of religion is paramount, and we shouldn't be banning groups of people from free expression or discriminating against them just because we don't like their religion... if we are okay doing that, then why stop at Muslims, why not Christians or Jews too?

To say you don't see people calling out the issues in Islam sounds like your own ignorance, I see plenty of people do so - maybe I just follow different sources. Look at Bill Maher, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Salman Rushdie, etc.

The reason you may not see more mainstream criticism is because, at least in the USA, Islam is a minority religion which really has no influence in governance. The majority religion in the USA is Christianity, the overwhelming majority of legislators are Christian, and every president was Christian (yes even Obama). We constantly have Christians trying to influence the law based on their scripture, whether that was supporting slavery, anti-miscegenation laws, anti-sodomy laws, prohibiting same-sex marriage, prohibition, anti-abortion, injecting prayer in schools, trying to legalize discrimination, etc...

Once more, it is perfectly fine to criticize the religion itself, and I would go as far as saying you should actively criticize terrible inhumane practices within all religions. But don't pretend like you aren't a hypocrite if you discriminate against Islam but are perfectly fine with Christianity or Judaism, especially when Christians are trying to implement a type of "Christian Sharia" in the USA.

3

Thank you for your video, as an ex Muslim who lives in Iraq and who’s pro LGBT rights and women’s rights I find it very odd that some confused liberals would accept Islamic ideology. Not only that, but they’d defend the very religion that calls to kill all non Muslims including them. Let’s make it clear here Islam is Anti-gay anti-bi anti-trans and even anti-woman.

Thank you for being part of the conversation.

1

Taken literally it certainly, although no more than literal interpretations of Christianity or Judaism. Islam needs an Enlightenment movement to make the literal interpretations less palatable and mainstream. As long as there isn't such a movement, Islamic countries will remain hostile to LGBT people.

Anders Level 5 Sep 9, 2020

Right, because Christians are so LGBT friendly...

@CharliePrime I'm not gay.

@CharliePrime doesn't sound like he is gay? Though if he was why would it matter? If he was he could also have been a top, you wouldn't know. Who cares how someone lives their lives? Isn't all sexual activity a hobby?

He also doesn't seem to want to convert his country to Islam?

@JacksonNought Charlie seems to be under the impression that if you allow Muslims into the country, they automatically take it over and turn it into a hellscape. I'm beginning to think he's an exaggerated parody of what SJWs think an Islamophobe is. I'm not sure I want to accept that people like him exist.

@CharliePrime You may be in the wrong Slug-forum. You realize that Ariella Scarcella is a lesbian, don't you? I mean, no one is going to ban you but we will laugh uncontrollable at you.

@CharliePrime Glad as always to be of service. Are you a Christian?

@CharliePrime oh no, not the poor innocent logos! We must protect the logos to protect society! Think of the logos!

@CharliePrime Then why don't you follow the Bible, which commands you in numerous places to be kind to the stranger among you? See e.g. Lev 19:34, Lev 27:19, Deut 10:19, 1 Chr 16:19-22, Job 29:15-17, Psalm 146:9, Eze 47:22, Zec 7:9-10, Matt 5 43:44, Matt 25:35, Luke 10:27, Acts 10:34. Rom 12:13, Rom 13:10, Heb 13:1-3, 3 John 1-5.

Why do you show such animosity towards Muslims? It can't be because they want what is yours (Matt 5:40; Luke 6:30). It can't because they're your enemy (Matt 5:44). It can't be because they persecute you (Matt 5:11-12; Matt 5:38-40). How can you still have a computer? Why haven't you sold it and given the money to the poor (Matt 19:21; Luk 12:33; Luk 18:22)?

You seem to very selective in your Christianity. You have forgotten the important parts of the law, justice and mercy and faithfulness. I think you need to take a good, long look at Matthew 23, because you see only the speck in your brother's eye and not the plank in your own.

@CharliePrime Nope. Atheist.

@CharliePrime That's not what I'm saying. I'm asking "Since you believe that the Bible is the word of God, why don't you practice what it preaches?"

I'm not, at the moment, interested in making you an atheist, I'm interested in why you pick and choose what parts of God's word you follow and what parts you discard. You're not more consistent than the people who accept homosexuality in spite of Leviticus 18:22, and the parts you have accepted make you morally a worse person.

@CharliePrime Since we are wildly off topic, I will go over to direct messages, if that's OK?

@CharliePrime If you don't think there's any point to have a conversation I won't bother you anymore.

1

Based Jeff Goldblum

2

IMO, Islam is not really "phobic" so much as they are completely intolerant and otherwise incapable of peacefully coexisting among others of differing beliefs. Hell, we're talking about a group of individuals who have 1,200 years of showing the rest of us that they aren't even capable of getting along with one another. The tenets of Islamic doctrine and those who adhere to it are incapable of peaceful existence within western civilized society.

This is complete nonsense as anyone who knows history knows. I have been attending mosque for years as a non-Muslim. Muslims and the far right are the only tolerant groups.

You may want to look up the history of Christianity. Do you know why there are so many pork dishes in southern Spain? When the Christian reconquista reached the area, the choice for Jews and Muslims was very clear - convert or die. But how did you know if they had really converted? Well, you offered them pork. Hence, pork dishes.

As for Christians getting along with themselves, you may want to look at the history of Europe in the 16th and 17th centuries, when we were enthusiastically slaughtering each other over which interpretation of Christianity was the right one. For instance, in Sweden until 1858 Lutheran Christianity was the only one tolerated in Sweden for natives (foreigners were allowed their strange ways as long as they worshiped in private and didn't proselytize).

The difference is that we had the Enlightenment, which diminished the power of the fundamentalists to the point where they were only marginally in charge. And even with that the old ways took a long time to die.

@CharliePrime So your answer is forced mass expulsion of tens of millions - possibly hundreds of millions of people? That seems excessive.

@CharliePrime India has a sizable Muslim majority, some 175-200 million people. How are you going to deport them? Or do you prefer the Chinese way of dealing with the problem?

@CharliePrime Sweden is not a Christian country either. We're overwhelmingly atheist or deist.

Homointolerance.

3

Actually, Muhammad plagerized homophobia from the Old Testament:

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination."

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

Actually this is a mistranslation from Hebrew. The word "as" isn't in the Hebrew. What is forbidden is 2 men with 1 woman.

@fschmidt shrug I don't see how that's an improvement. It's still the death penalty for acts between consenting adults. Changing the group doesn't take away the basic bigotry.

@CharliePrime Leviticus is all about the “rules before entering a church”. Everyone is born with sin in the Christian and catholic religion. It’s all about still being a good human in the end. Not about weather your gay or straight.

@CharliePrime מִשְׁכְּבֵ֣י - no "as" here.

@Anders The victim is the child born with uncertain paternity.

@CharliePrime Not wrong, this is correct.

@fschmidt interesting. i've never heard that argument before

4

Yes.
I'm not sure if it's in the quran, but when has that stopped the religious from using their religion to justify their hate?

Yes.
No ideology is beyond critique.

Very well said

perfectly said

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