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Conservatives have long been concerned with supposed leftist indoctrination in universities. But the reality is that universities do less indoctrination and more 1. Provide an opportunity to exercise critical thinking skills, 2. Confront a student with how much they do not know, and 3. Expose a student to people from different backgrounds. Political radicalization comes later as a person continues their self-education, which if anything is fueled by the gaps and falsehoods in their earlier education.

WilyRickWiles 8 Aug 1
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1

19 and 20 year old sons in college. State University and, I think, a still-sane place although I see the incursions more every year. To wit: I speak from experience.

Schooling, as such, begins at home. It isn't taught, it's modeled. Engaged parents are the key. Then, when the kid comes home in 3rd grade and asks "Why is America so unfair," you can answer, "Do you think so? Do you think it's unfair that Mom/Dad goes to work?" Do you think that we should only get what people who don't work, get?" And so on. You don't have to be a genius. You just need to be engaged, and live what you say.

Then, when the young men/women come home from school and tell you that the world is made of shit (they won't) the little voice of common sense in the back of their brains, their experience, will bring them up short.

Some of this is inevitable. A lot of it has to do w/ the charisma of certain instructors. If you do your job right,
they should snap back when they see what's held back in their first paychecks. If you've taught them right, they
won't be grateful for their tax refund---they'll be annoyed that they weren't able to invest that money through the year. Real life is where real learning takes place.

T

How about the families that experience bad luck, traumatizing their children, such as a workplace injury? It's hard to avoid souring on capitalism when every level of the system conspires to punish one's family in such circumstances. Once they emerge, they will have a choice to make. If their parents taught them to value fairness, they might fight for a system that is fairer to all people. If not, they might respond by exploiting people who they perceive as weak.

I'm not suggesting that you need to value fairness, I'm just saying that a capitalist system without room for some amount of fairness produces its own unmaking.

@WilyRickWiles If you think capitalism is blind to unfairness, you should try socialism.

Capitalist countries to charity at a far greater rate than socialist countries. The poorest, most disadvantaged people on the planet benefit from the generosity of capitalist countries and, as has been shown over recent decades, pull themselves out of poverty by becoming capitalist.

No serious person would recommend socialism as a cure for unfairness so I don't know what system you think should be taught, but I sure hope that socialism ain't it.

@markyd1970 Regardless of which system is fairest, I didn't mention socialism at all unless you think capitalism magically transforms to socialism upon the merest change toward making it fairer.

After all, Terence57 was criticizing the impulse to give any concern to unfairness. I was simply explaining that such a value system does not work for families who experience bad luck. And in the long run it destroys capitalism.

@WilyRickWiles Interesting to hear your suggestions for 'making Capitalism fairer' which don't include some hefty steps towards socialism.

@WilyRickWiles
"After all, Terence57 was criticizing the impulse to give any concern to unfairness. "

Did I? I think not. What my poor example was supposed to illustrate is the need for parents to be engaged, on some level beyond, "I dunno...life sucks."

Whatever one wants to say about Capitalism, Socialism, the State of Education, Health Care, Big Tech, Free Speech, yada yada, REALITY is the scales. It's a Parent's (oops, the 'p' word) role to help a kid navigate through that. It doesn't have to be pretty or perfect, but someone or someTHING will have a hand in shaping that kid's worldview.

So, no, I wasn't "criticizing any impulse to give any concern to unfairness." I do, however, criticize your framing of my comment.

2

I have worked with students in South Africa, across Europe and now also NZ.
My experience is exactly the opposite.

In South Africa taking the opposite view of what you are trying to prove and attempting to defend it was part of the curriculum in fourth year dissertation preparation.
That is all gone now.
Considering views that are conservative are not encouraged at all.
And what is more, the lecturers themselves are unable to put together conflicting views points.
This is a crucial part of the critical thinking process.

Hanno Level 8 Aug 1, 2020
3

First of all this is a broad, sweeping generalization. Second of all there is not a germ of truth to it. I’ve put two kids through college and watched two other step kids go through college. There is very little opportunity to exercise critical thinking skills and especially independent thinking. The radicalization comes later as they continue their self education???? Once again dude, you are drinking the Koolaid and smoking some seriously bad weed. The radicalization and indoctrination starts as early as kindergarten now and peaks in college. Do you get tired of everyone disagreeing with you all the time? Also, try and prove your claims, otherwise your argument looks even worse than it already does.

0

Where did you come up with this?

Xtra Level 8 Aug 1, 2020

Propaganda text book.

Life experiences.

@WilyRickWiles Personal experience was also the basis of "White Fragility" according to the author.

@Xtra It's a better basis than the conspiracy theories conservatives form about indoctrination.

@WilyRickWiles of course they're being indoctrinated. What year did you graduate from college?

2

I disagree, my Daughter was a prime example, being raised by a critical thinker, she couldn't chew back the agenda of indoctrination that existed everywhere. There was correct speak, correct think, if you weren't towing the line you were ostracized. She's one of the least racist people I've ever known, wound up getting written up for incorrect speak. OMG, it was a joke about herself and her depression at that time. If you were white, you weren't right even when you were. Perhaps the political stuff comes a bit later, none tge less she couldn't ask a critical question let alone have any deep discussions requiring critical thinking. Sad really.

0

Lol

Lol

I know it's easier to just lean into your anti-intellectual and conspiricist impulses, though.

@WilyRickWiles

But it was you who proposed the anti conservative conspiracy theory. Lol

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