just makes more and more glad i dodnt go into teaching as i had originally planned. like i said in my other reply im nit sure id be strong enough to stand my ground and i don't know if id be able to quit so id probably go along with it deapite my better judgement. the other issue is i when surrounded by progressive ideology for so long you get sucked into it and believe it is right. i mean they talk about love, peace, respect, and justice. all good Biblical principles right? but what is the driving force behind it for them? we don't look at that at now we’ve bought into it this long when something like this comes along that is not even close to Biblical we are more inclined to just follow along out of blind obedience at this point. so for that reason as well im glad i didn’t go into teaching. ive seen so many people i took for strong Christians for the longest time being shepherded into this toxic anti-Biblical belief system

that still doesnt address Matthew 18:6 and the issue of teaching heresy. i get they may not believe as you do but to teach something that the Bible is quite clear on being false? I know it may sound like Im trying to say what you should or shouldnt do but thats not my intent. im just trying to raise the question. im not even saying id fair any better. in America we have been spoiled for so long that we’ e really never faced real persecution for our faith the way others have in various countries so our understanding of suffering for our faith is so limited and i totally understand the fear of having to possibly have to if you take a stand.

@Joehlert11 If I may jump in...

Aren’t you overstating scripture just a bit? You cite Matt 18:6 and the teaching of heresy. Where? My online reference says 6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.”

Specifically, those who believe in me. Doesn’t say squat about gender, homosexuality, or anything else.

@Joehlert11

That still doesnt address Matthew 18:6 and the issue of teaching heresy. i get they may not believe as you do but to teach something that the Bible is quite clear on being false?

Am I teaching the Bible or am I teaching the curriculum? I had assumed you meant that - as a teacher - you meant the approved curriculum regarding the Equality Act.

If I'm teaching the Bible, then this really isn't going to be a problem, is it? I'm not going to teach people that the Bible says there are as many genders as Baskin Robbins has flavors of ice cream. THAT would be teaching heresy.

If instead, you're suggesting that I should allow my personal beliefs to override the approved curriculum, that I - in my supreme arrogance - should decide for other people what they need to be taught, instead of the approved curriculum that the state and county school districts have decided upon, then I must respectfully suggest to you a meditation on the subject of humility.

We do not get to decide such things. We do not call those shots. We do not demand others adhere to our beliefs, and then get to pat ourselves on the back about what righteous men we are. People MUST be allowed to choose for themselves or else faith means nothing.

If you are having a crisis of faith regarding this, then I can only offer that this may be God showing you that you are needed elsewhere.

I totally understand the fear of having to possibly have to if you take a stand.

Respectfully, you aren't hearing what I'm saying. There is no stand to take and thus there is no fear.

Do I understand fear? Absolutely. I am afraid for losing my job, for other matters that the woke agenda is pushing. I also have conflict about dealing with critical race theory training, because it requires me to betray my oath and lie about being a racist, when I know that I'm not one. And I know that failing to go along with the program may very well lead to being unemployed. That scares me, particularly at my age, when I'm close-but-not-quite-ready to retire and know a follow-up job will be a difficult prospect.

But that fear concerns a choice that I must make that doesn't effect anyone except for me.

@parsifal so i appreciate your analysis of the verse in regards to the part about “those who believe in me” ill admit that part is where id perhaps give some leeway to public school teachers. as far as the part about it not addressing lgbtq+ it doesn’t need to. the bible is pretty clear about these issues and to teach children contrary to these issues would be causing children to stumble

@Alysandir my thing is you are a Christian no matter where you are. there is a difference between pushing your beliefs and teaching straight lies. i get “it’s just the curriculum” but it’s also a lie and contrary to scripture but you are needing to teach it as truth. like im sorry i know you said it isnt up to you to tell others what to believe but it is up to you not to perpetuate lies

@Joehlert11

i know you said it isnt up to you to tell others what to believe but it is up to you not to perpetuate lies

I see that nothing I say will sway you. Respectfully, you are putting your beliefs above both your obligations to others and above your humility. If nothing else, I respect your conviction, although I personally believe it is misguided.

Thus, the only answer I can give to your original question is you must refuse to teach this material and be clear about it to the school board. Perhaps they will reassign you such that you are not in the position to be forced to teach it, but in today's climate, I would be surprised if there are not larger consequences for you. You must prepare for the possibility you will be asked to resign.

As I said earlier, perhaps this is God showing you that you are needed elsewhere. Best of luck to you.

@Joehlert11 So....it’s up to US to assign a hierarchy to what the bible says and give greater significance to some even when and despite Jesus saying to judge not, or forgive seventy times seven, or love your brother as yourself, or let those without sin cast the first stone?

@parsifal ok so the “love thy neighbor” verse is why i see many Christians going along with a lot of this ideology. loving someone does not mean we condone their behavior when we believe it to be wrong. id argue it’s actually less loving to say nothing or to just let them live as they see fit. i know we are worried abut offending people but i mean come on Jesus offended tons if people with his teachings. he was far from concerned about not doing so so and making sure everyone liked what he had to say. he was pretty clear on the fact that people hated him and it was to be expected. now as far as the judge part not part. i guess people still don’t get that passage is addressing more than that considering it doesnt stop there. its reminding us that when we judge tondo so from a place of humility and that we are sinners as well. now i don't believe the bible contradicts itself so there is no issue then with the fact that there is even evidence the bible does call us to judge others (1 Cor 6::3). the let those without sin cast the first stone thing again has more to do with humility and not acknowledging we are sinners ourselves not that we should not correct sin. Let’s remember when we cone to Jesus yes we come as we are but we don't leave as we came. Jesus changes us. He doesnt want us to just continue in sin which is why he was very clear about calling out sin. the danger for us though is the point he was making in the verse you mentioned about judging others. unlike him we are not actually perfect and we need to remember when pointing out sin in others, not that we shouldn’t do it at all

@Joehlert11 You - now i don't believe the bible contradicts itself so there is no issue then with the fact that there is even evidence the bible does call us to judge others (1 Cor 6::3).

So back to my point - you are comfortable denying what Jesus has said.

That’s fine, and honestly - your choice. What I find interesting is that to Paul or whoever, the words of humans are more valuable simply because they excuse -our- behaviours and get us off the hook when the words of Jesus say clearly to do something else

@parsifal so clearly you take a “red letter” approach snd that direct quotes of Jesus have more importance which i personally have wrestled with considering the whole Bible is “God breathed”. its all important. but again as i laid out you are missing Jesus’ point. ImHe is not telling us not to judge. that is not being said on it’s own. look at the surrounding verses. it isnt about not judging at all but doing so humbly

@parsifal I’m sorry there is enough commentary on this verse at this point it amazes me that there are still people who still try to argue the “no judging” interpretation. i mean theres really little reason for it other than the just wanting to find issue with “judgey” Christians or because you need an out to stand your ground on your faith because you are worried about offending non-Christians. like i said i get it i don't like offending people either but the reality is Jesus did it all the time. they even killed him killed him for it. why then are we so worried about speaking truth in fear that we may offend someone? if turning from sin is the way to eternal life how is it loving if us to let people continue to live in sin? im not saying you bash them over the head with it but you don’t just say sure there’s nothing wrong with what you believe and you sure as hell don't gonso far as to teach it as truth.

@Alysandir i mean something to think about as it seems youd be willing to go along with teaching this even as a Christian because your beliefs do not trump the curriculum as you pointed out you already struggle with critical race theory which honestly i would have left over that cuz yeah im sorry how do teach children something that you believe is wrong and dangerous but then where is the line? what if the curriculum says murder is acceptable? like i said yeah it may seem im trying to sway you to to one position of quitting or not but i think many Christians have been shepherded into going along with these ideologies for so long we’ve stopped questioning them and even worse we’ve stopped combatting them in ourselves and in the world.

@Joehlert11

Respectfully, we've come to a point in the conversation where I now realize that what you really wanted all along was for someone to tell you that whatever it is you want to do is right.

I've explained my position and the reasons for it, in detail. You've responded by implying that my position is cowardice, deceit, and heresy.

I then patiently conceded that if this is truly a matter of conscientious objection for you that you always have the option to refuse and find a place more in alignment with your beliefs. This is still not enough, apparently, because you continue to argue with me that there is a moral obligation to teach people what you believe to be Gospel truth.

So I'm going to give you what you want: I'm going to tell you that you should absolutely teach the children/teens/adults in your classes whatever it is YOU think they should be taught. The school board, the other educators, the parents of the children? What they want is not remotely as important as your personal need to teach your interpretation of Scripture. That you are both a righteous and courageous man to continue to teach your beliefs in the face of a situation that will not allow you to do so.

You are right. Everyone else is wrong. There is literally nothing more I can give you.

Peace be with you.

@Alysandir i never at any point asked what i should do. im not an educator by trade (however that was my intended career path for years) and i have many friends and family who are educators and my initial point was to address the dilemma at hand for Christians, especially in the education field with the possible passing of the Equality Act and are we really asking what this means for us as Christians and what we are going to be asked to teach and as Christians shoukd we really be ok with that? i don't think many Christians have actually thought about it and even if they have i think many have chalked it up to a separation of Church and State thing but you don't stop being a Christian just because you work for the government. your identity is in Christ first.

@Joehlert11 Let me go back - it isn’t what you or I might believe on any given subject, nor is it even what is written and contained in the bible by any other person including Paul...

It is what Jesus said.

Shouldn’t that be the end of it?

@Joehlert11 Consider it this way...

If I am studying a particular subject, especially one that is controversial, I prefer to read something within the sets of quotation marks that designate that comment as from the individual directly. I don’t need someone’s interpretation to help me out or to tell me “Yeah, you could read what the author of these comments has to say directly, but let me interpret them for you. And if there is any difference or if you have a question, consider my opinion the best and most reliable.”

Isn’t that what the ‘words in red’ do?

Props to you. thats sort of what i was looking for as a response to this. not your actual plan per say even though i’m all for it, but do you quit, teach traditional view anyway, go along with it, etc?

@Joehlert11 continue doing what is right, until you're no longer able to.