I mean you still have to draw the line at physical violence but when you consider what The Capitol is, I’m not really sure the more I think about, i’m not really sure you can condemn Christians for supporting it. I haven’t really heard people bring it up but didn’t Jesus chase out the religious leaders and cause damage at the temple when he saw how they were treating it? just like Democrats would say they were doing nothing wrong the religious leaders were just doing their thing and in walks Jesus, pissed at what they are doing in a place that’s sacred to him. That’s exactly what Republicans did. like i said they did get violent and i don’t agree with that, but the basic premise i think Jesus would support it. and before you say he supports rioting in general so long as you attack the target of your rage like many seem to say is the difference between The Capitol and BLM riots, what is key is that The Capitol is the people’s house the same way the temple is God’s and there is personal ownership of the place people are rioting at and they protesting what is happening at a place they have ownership of
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.I'm sorry this topic seems to have died. It's very important. It's especially topical due to polls that show conservatives are much less likely to endorse political violence than the left.
There has always been a pacifist aspect to Christianity. Famously groups such as Quakers have disavowed violence. It is even an element of Objectivism and libertarianism. There is a bit of forgotten history that is worth remembering. People know about the anti war movement of the 60s but few remember the quiet anti war movement associated with WWI. While there were protests and a loud anti war element associated with WWI there was a quite one among Christians. It remained strong up until WWII. The propagandists addressed it with "Sergeant York" a 1941movie you should watch.
Christian pacifism is something worth talking about today from a historical perspective. It in a way it brought down the mighty Roman Empire. It causes liberal heads to explode because it goes against their propaganda that conservatives are war mongers. It delegitimizes Marxism as a novel ideology and paints it as a violent cult. All the values the left claim as their own had long been established by elements of Christianity including a kind of feminism. Where women are seen as partners in a spiritual journey.
The power of Christianity is in it is a quite revolution. It doesn't need protests or violence. It passes from person to person largely unseen by secular authority. You can't stop something you can't see.
wolfhnd
Level 8
Mar 14, 2021
0
You are not allowed to burn your own house down. You can't play music as load as you want on your private property without a permit. You can't threaten people walking down the sidewalk. If you are crazy and a threat to yourself the authorities can haul you off your own property.
What is ridiculous is the charges. They are completely out of proportion to the crimes.
The high priests had Jesus executed. Being right has nothing or little to do with what happens to you when you confront even illegitimated authority. Jesus would say if you can't do the punishment don't do the crime. Or "Put up again thy sword into its place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword".
wolfhnd
Level 8
Mar 14, 2021
0
How the F....k would you know what the Jesus of history, not the mythical one would say?
oh im not saying there won't be any punishment and i don’t think the Bible even points to there should be no punishment. my point being though is just that under the right circumstances i think Jesus’ actions point to at the very least it being acceptable to act in such a manner. i mean there are plenty of “contradictions” in the Bible without context (i.e when killing is ok and not ok)
How do you know their was a historical Jesus. Why does it matter?
All we have is the quote I offered to go by. I'm just assuming that since the bible shows no evidence of Jesus encouraging civil disobedience of the type that would have occupied the Temple that it wasn't a tactic.
In theory he would have known that his followers would eventually be executed. He apparently didn't want them to die with a sword in their hands. He didn't lead any non violent protests. The conclusion I think you have to draw is that the tactic he preferred was persuasion at the individual level. Conversion was still going to get you killed it just wouldn't happen before you spread the message. Considering the grip of the Roman occupation and their brutality it seems reasonable to me.
It isn't hard for me to see Nancy Pelosi as Puntius Pilot and the Democrats as an occupying political structure. Right now they seem to have a pretty tight lock on things. They can punish people they don't like and set criminals free. Eventual Christianity would conquer Roman but it took a very long time. Jewish revolts did nothing. If Jesus had lead a revolt he would be a foot note in history. His tactic seems to have worked. I don't know what that tells us about getting rid of the Democrats.
Killing? not so much in the new testament.
BTW I'm not objecting to your premise. I'm just making an allegorical comment on the nature of authority. People that have it tend to use it with little regard to the interest of those that oppose them.
@wolfhnd The thing to remember is the Bible is God’s word, Jesus is God. while i do think Jesus’ direct words bear a little more weight at times I don’t think just because it wasn’t in the NT or wasn’t addressed by Jesus explicitly makes it unimportant. War was not as prevalent to Jesus’ life which would be why he did not speak on it. Plus, God had already addressed it in the OT. Jesus came on a more personal level. so while he did say turn the other cheek I think that was meant more on a personal level not nation and also in regards to squabbles. i also don’t think that was meant in terms of always just roll over and be a whipping post and be a complete pacifist. there are various points throughout scripture New and Old Testament that shed lightt on the proper course of action or inaction
I'm not a Christian so I won't address this directly but consider my latest post above.
@wolfhnd as far as the longer post i mean yeah like i said Jesus was individualistic, i agree with you there. and while his cleansing of temple was not to scale of Jan 6 and i still don't agree with the violence and coming armed per say i think at the very least the two are a bit more in common than what we would like to think. i mean while Jesus didn’t come armed his disciples likely were as it was common to carry a sword when traveling and there were many unarmed at the Capitol as well. now there is the issue of scale, yeah Jesus didnt have the crowd that was there but who knows what could have happened and maybe there was more to what happened than what we get. like this is the account of Jesus and what his goal was for disrupting the temple. there may have been side squabbles that broke out but thats not relevant information so we don’t know. and from the account in Luke it does seem as if after driving out the sinful behavior in the temple Jesus did stay and teach there for some time. the accounts in Matthew and Mark jump over this. Im terrible when it comes to their writing styles but i am sure Luke has a reason for why details like this are important for him to add while it wasn’t for others because we see similar patterns in what each includes or doesnt when they include the same account. its like asking a parent and a child about vacation, they experienced the same trip so many parts will be the same but they’ll focus on different details the other doesn’t
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