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A lot of conservatives haven't heard of Blackstone's ratio and it shows.

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

[en.m.wikipedia.org]

WilyRickWiles 8 Apr 23
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0

😂are you bringing that up ironically?
What's any socialist state's experience with that? Communists practised the inverse of Blackstone's ratio more than anyone else in modern history.
Do your homework chump, and research how many innocent people perished in gulags/concentration camps under your preferred system

Tom81 Level 8 Apr 24, 2021
1

Your dichotomy and hubris notwithstanding the irrationality of your demagoguery projections to make conservatives seem less human in feeling of compassion; how do you explain that in your illustrious Chicago, Illinois (run by democrats and socialists since when?) And how do you explain the lack of compassion in the jurisprudence process, or like making people sit in jail for 10 years and never being charged?

[chicagomag.com]

Odell Sheppard in Cook County Jail, Chicago, Illinois

[nytimes.com]

Republican Governor George Ryan commuting and moratorium on death penalty

[deathpenaltyinfo.org]

Rolando Cruz, death row exonerated, and solitary confinement for many years in Tamms maximum security prison

[en.wikipedia.org]

Its too bad and a real shame no one follows Maimonides and understands 'the judge's caprice' of your article link. Interestingly, there was a Matthew Hale running amok in Illinois too; Pontifex Maximus was his self designation of the World Church of the Creator, I remember well, because I was carrying weapons just in case one of his followers flying monkeys decided to make me a trophy.

Ever heard of a neoliberal?

1

It's a non sequitur. It translates to, "Better to pack a lunch than ride the bus..."

Not really. It is basically the concept of performance that is used to evaluate true positives, true negatives, false positives, and false negatives for things like predictive power and medicine efficacy. Here it's evaluating such effects of punishment through law or by the norms of agents of the state.

@WilyRickWiles With all due respect (and I'm not pulling your chain on this),
it's not logic, it's not even a relative value structure. It's not even a stab toward predictive value because sometime 100 people, innocent people, as a consequence of taking out a monster, will be lost.

But, it's important to understand that when a bad guy walks, it isn't yoked to the notion that, in doing so, 10 innocent lives will be spared. They're independent events, as the ball landing on the casino wheel.

@Terence57 Have you heard of the criminal justice system?

@WilyRickWiles
It's fine. We come from different perspectives. There will be other questions for us to ponder.

3

Assuming you mean Blackstone's formulation - yes - I've heard of it, although I am libertarian vs conservative.

Frankly, I've thought of it quite often lately, hearing left-leaning pundit after pundit openly asking why Officer Chauvin even deserved a trial, why Officer Potter deserves due process, and why "reasonable doubt" shouldn't be the basis upon which we determine guilt or innocence.

So while you're teaching the political Right what it is, you might want to send your brothers-in-arms a memo as well.

2

I'm a classical liberal and never heard of it. It is a travesty that an innocent person be convicted and especially for those charged with delivering justice as Balckstone was. So I understand his angst.
It is better for justice to not convict on presumption or circumstantial evidence is all that is being inferred. It is still not good to allow ten guilty persons to escape.

You're thinking that ten guilty persons escaping is a good thing?

It's not worth, e.g. a 10% false conviction rate, to catch those 10.

@WilyRickWiles Actually, it is a reference to the effect of these two things - ten guilty persons escaping and one innocent person suffering - upon the concept of justice. One innocent person condemned would cause more damage to the delivery of justice than ten persons escaping. Both will damage the concept of justice but an injustice imposed upon an innocent person is 10 times more damaging.

@FrankZeleniuk Basically.

@WilyRickWiles Yes. So it seems your position is that guilty persons escaping justice is perfectly fine but conservatives have it backward when in fact both are injustices and neither should occur.

@FrankZeleniuk
As you surmise, the events are independent of each other.

3

Fiat justitia ruat caelum

"Let justice be done though the heavens fall."

And the left has obviously forgotten this famous dictum from Roman justice.

2

I have heard of it, and I have heard conservative commentators quote it frequently. What makes you think a lot of conservatives haven't heard of it?

Because they insist on the inverse!

@WilyRickWiles I assume you have an example in mind?

Inverse probably isn't correct--what I mean is they believe that it is better for 10 innocent people to suffer than 1 guilty person escape.

@WilyRickWiles Again - do you have any examples of this kind of belief among conservatives?

@DaveO276 Support for US voter ID laws, for starters.

@DaveO276 Also support for anti-immigrant racial profiling laws and stop-and-frisk policing.

@DaveO276 It gets to the heart of conservative "law and order" vs. liberal rule of law.

@WilyRickWiles Ok, you've given me two alleged examples - we're getting somewhere! Now, pick one and tell me how it makes innocent people suffer. Remember, I'm not American, so I may have some ignorance on the intricate details of the laws and policies in your country.

@DaveO276 Also in the US: voter purges.

All of these policies cast a wide net to prevent things that are low likelihood. E.g., the voter fraud rate in the us is 0.00006%. Some estimate that voter suppression efforts prevent at least 2% of eligible voters from casting a ballot. That's the equivalent of 33,333 innocent people suffering to catch every 1 guilty person (who inherently do not affect election results).

@WilyRickWiles How can you possibly have reliable figures on the rate of voter fraud when you don't have remotely sufficient common sense measures in place (such as mandatory voter ID) in order to detect voter fraud?

@DaveO276
Therein lies "the snag."

1

Obviously not taught to judges in Australia

2

Your interesting article quotes the Sodom and Gommorah murders committed by Ninurta because the city occupants were praying to the Wrong god with a small g. In fact the deities of the Old Testament allegedly murdered more than 2 Million people. On the other-hand, should all suspects simply get a free pass because. . .? Black and white issues are turning gray in my old age.

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