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How can we as a group stop hate and bullying on this site any others and not by baning
any one

B1967 7 Aug 6
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2

First of all hate is an over used concept. Most of the racists I have known did not hate anyone. They just thought they were superior. What they hated was their superiority being challenged and by extension their right to be in control. Control to reestablish a non chaotic social structure that is threatening. Chaos that is both imaginary and real.

It isn't even clear if there is an instinct of hate. There are instincts or emotions for dominance and aggression or anger. A dominant male Chimpanzee doesn't kill a rival because he hates them he kills them to maintain dominance. Hate is a fantastical social construct. As a concept hate is useless. What has gone wrong is that there is no rational process for establishing dominance hierarchies based on competence. To do so requires the unnatural act of rejecting emotional intelligence.

Just as the dominate male in a Chimpanzee troop is often the male with the best networking skills we select for social skills not competency.

People tend to associate the ideological with intellectualism but that is misleading.

Marxists or Nazis there is practically no difference except ethnocentrism. It's all driven by primitive emotions. BLM and AntiFa resemble nothing more than a troop of Chimpanzees looking for "Nazis" and Nazis a troop looking for the evil Jews.

People can't seem to grasp that authoritarianism is part of the complex of primitive instincts that are tied to the easy but unstable environment we evolved to inhabit. This particular form of authoritarianism is a reflection of networking not planning. It is mindless social conformity for the sake of conformity. It is exactly how Chimpanzee troops function. The leader of a Chimpanzee troop is unintuitively often the dominate male with the best networking skills not the most violent. But i
his leadership is not directed towards a plan. In a world where there is no productivity only resource harvesting you don't need a plan. The leader does have to be authoritarian because as we all know networks not based on productivity are chaotic.

The idea of emotional intelligence is very appealing because at some level we all want to satisfy our instincts and live the fast lifestyle we are evolved for. Unfortunately civilization requires a harsh but stable environment. That means because nature does not provide resources freely as it did before we adopted agriculture function not form (or sensuality) must dominate. In a natural environment sensuality is everything. What is beautiful like ripe fruit or running water or large breasts enhance fitness. What enhances fitness in a civilized state is the planning that comes with a competence hierarchy.

Restore the meritocracy and a lot of the "hate" goes away.

You did a great post. The only problem with meritocracy is the influential class and that could be the person with the biggest stick not intelligence

@Thaw

Of course they are and so are the Chinese. The problem is that race like hate are misused terms. There is a genetic component to ethnicity but it involves predispositions and is unevenly distributed in a population. Sorting out what is cultural and what is genetic exceeds the state of our science. For the most part we therefore assume that ethnicity is cultural pretty much destroying the meaning of race. The Japanese as a sophisticated society understand this but also understand the importance of maintaining a stable society.

@Thaw

This is a pretty good if subjective article about Japanese attitudes.

[independent.co.uk]

"Japan as a nation (you will forgive the generalisation) is one that has a long-standing fascination with "foreigners" (gaijin or gaikokujin, literally “people from the outside&rdquo😉. Gaijin appear in the music charts, on television, and of course on every other billboard. This fascination however is often coupled with an underlying fear and mistrust."

As it relates to the original post it's clear the Japanese don't exactly "hate" non Japanese. They do seem to want to maintain their cultural identity while being open to taking onboard aspects of other cultures. In the West it's different because their isn't a uniform cultural identity. That lack of shared identity may be why "race" not cultural differences are the focus of idenititarians in the West.

To go any further we are going to have to define what the White race means. What gives Europeans a cultural identity. Is it communism, Naxisism, liberal democracy, etc.? That doesn't work because the Japanese have a liberal democracy and the Chinese "communism" both adopted from the West. Ideologically Europeans are very diverse. Reducing culture to skin color doesn't seem very useful. Not does it seem that skin color correlates very well with ideology.

I'm not a race "realist" but I do subscribe to the idea that different ethnicities have different predispositions taken as a collective. How much is genetic and how much is cultural is indeterminate. If it was primarily genetic you wouldn't expect the Japanese to have accommodated liberal democracy so well. That doesn't mean that genetic differences are not important. To understand that you have to understand chaos theory (or the butterfly effect). Small differences can have a dramatic effect as seen with the occupational choices of females in Sweden. The problem is that complex chaotic systems are by definition unpredictable. For example we can't say how ethnocentric the Japanese will be in 50 years. The thing is that while small differences can have dramatic effect they are also subject to equal small outside influences. With that in mind it seems logical to focus on not race but predispositions in general. Can people that are more predisposed to a fast lifestyle be influenced to adopt a more prosocial slow lifestyle?

I know you are going to say I didn't answer your question. That is because I don't know who is more "evil". We are all born with "original sin". That concept however doesn't transfer easily to groups of people. I started a thread on making morality objective perhaps you can explain your concept of evil there.

@Thaw

The central point was that variation between individuals within a group is greater than between groups as it relates to personality. Or if you prefer you can't define an individual by their group. That is one of the central principles that liberal democracy is based on. Once you start defining people by the group they are assigned to then you create an atmosphere in which individuals will suffer under the tyranny of the majority.

1

It's difficult to give a helpful response without having concrete examples of the kind of thing you are referring to, but here is my general take on what I think you are referring to:

We should do what should be done anywhere...

Start by presenting facts and debating opinions. This helps separate the trolls from people expressing sincere opinions because people who are expressing sincere opinions will either engage in dialogue or decide they don't want to engage further and just stop, whereas trolls will just keep hurling empty abuse. I have personally encountered both on this site at times when I didn't initially know which I was dealing with.

I can think of two non-censorious approaches to dealing with a troll. Both might work but they are opposites, and both require unity, so a group of people wanting to deal with a troll has to pick an approach and run with it to the exclusion of the other one.

The approaches are:

  1. If everyone ignores them, they might get bored and go elsewhere.
  2. If enough people team up against a troll - not hurling abuse back at them, but instead piling on facts that oppose their hate - they might decide this isn't the place for them.

I believe this site also gives users the option to "block" other users, which might be helpful to any victims of hate or bullying. I don't know exactly how it works - I haven't felt compelled to use it.

I hope this helps.

To you a troll is ?

@B1967 To me, a troll is someone who is not interested in discussion and debate - they just want to hurl insults and abuse. They should be free to do so, just as others should be free to choose whether and how they respond.

1

Hate is an emotion just like love, anger, happiness and sadness. If you ban one, then you should ban the others. I love asparagus, my sister hates it. It doesn't make the object of that emotion (asparagus) taste bad or good. It simply identifies how we, as individuals, feel about it. Freedom of speech is just that, the freedom to express yourself in words that describe how you feel. I am offended by some things that people say on here, in regards to other races, people and religious beliefs. However, I defend their right to do so, with the same tenacity that I defend my right to say what and how I feel. However, when the feelings, become threats to harm someone or to commit a crime against our nation or someone else, that freedom (although still protected), becomes a net to trap a criminal. So, let them speak, and let them entrap themselves with words that can, and will, be used against them in a court of law.

0

So Just ignore them and let it run its course sounds good free speech at its best

B1967 Level 7 Aug 6, 2020
0

You have to block the #trolls. You have no other choice. They're not here for conversation or debate; they're only here to annoy and disrupt. Same goes for #bullying.

That said, you confront #hate the same way you confront any opinion you disagree with; with evidence and reason.

I don't know about blocking

@B1967 On a member’s profile page, just click “block” icon and poof they will disappear and you’ll become invisible to them, too.

Blocking trolls is like giving a fat kid a piece of cake, it's exactly what they want.

Trolls want attention, you don't give them attention, they move on. It's very simple psychology.

7

It's free speech here. Someone else's hate is their problem but I strongly believe that good ideas will outshine bad ideas. There may be racists on here and I don't care because that is their issue. If I don't like what is said, I don't read it. It's a lesson that people in a free society should learn to do. Banning people just makes it worse because then you become the arbiter of what is hate speech or what isn't and you start to act on behalf of the most sensitive person.

So to answer your question, we do nothing.

Thank you so well put

Well said,, and doing nothing is actually a choice right, so its really not doing nothing, its the something that helps the most in these cases. Especially when your dealing with individuals that need to see the solutions to their problems from within because that is where they extend from. I tell myself this a lot... "Most everyone is wrong before they are right, and that includes me."

@Callnote Exactly. A couple of years ago I was a liberal, now I'm not. I was wrong and now I'm right lol

@B1967 No problem my friend.

I agree with you totally. Other than inciting violence, freedom of speech should be unregulated..

As my old racist grandfather used to say “Put Your Big Boy Pants On” and think for yourself. I learned a lot from him even though I later ditched the extreme racism and Bible Thumpers

This goes back to my childhood when the saying, "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me."
The truth is that words do hurt. They can destroy a person or a country as we're witnessing now. Opposing views in a discussion is how we broaden our knowledge base.
But name-calling and hateful speech do nothing to advance an idea or an ideology.
As it's been pointed out, trolls should remain under the bridge they crawled out from under except to frighten goats off that bridge. In other words, stay in their parents' basement and let the adults hold a conversation.

@SocialDarwin freedom of speech should be unregulated

@SocialDarwin Trust me, it took me a bit to kind of put those pants on myself but once you have them on, you feel good.

@PamelaSteele I agree with you but I do contest that words only hurt you if you allow them to. I'm not saying it's easy to move past, we all have our pet peeves or statements that can really piss us off but it takes strength to overcome feeling like a victim of the moment. The more you practice it, the more you realize that you are stronger than you think. Less things affect you and you become more emotionally balanced and in control.

@BlackoutNJ, exactly. A very long time ago, I learned that when someone is verbally attacking me they (1) either have no viable discourse to argue their point or (2) they really despise themselves to such a degree they're assigning their imagined faults to me. Either way, it really isn't about me. Not my circus. Not my monkeys...my monkeys fly. 😀

@PamelaSteele I agree with you. I stopped having conversations with unreasonable people. I only talk to people who have some good faith in me, then we can talk but if you think I'm evil, then I'm wasting my breath.

0

Are such things going on here? I've seen some pretty hateful groups being made and posts being made here that are no banned to my knowledge.

How can we stop hate and bullying with out baning any one

@B1967 Probably by outnumbering the bullies and not allowing them to bully anyone. When they try, you send them where sun don't shine and you move on. They only have power when they prey on the weak. If there is enough strong people around, bullies fade away. Where you will find active bullies is where they are weak individuals waiting to be bullied on.

That is how you can stop bulling and not banning anyone. As for hate. That is a different question. What is hate? How do you define it and quantify it? We all know the trappings of so called "hate speech", where anything SJW's didn't like was proclaimed hate speech. And banned.

So when you say hate and bullying, what are you talking about exactly? I don't want no snowflakes around here either or SJW's. What is hate and bullying in text format? Define me that?

P.S.
If someone is an asshole, that is their business, I have control over my emotions. If someone tries to bully me I'll return the favor in such a way their head will spin. And its all text anyway. So they can say what they want, I could not care less. I does not hurt me. Its annoying sure, and degrades the quality of conversations, but I don't take it personally. Neither should anyone else. That is in part why this site was made, everyone was too damn sensitive.

@KrunoS I like it very good way

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