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As a Constitutional Conservative with some Libertarian ideologies, I have a plethora of solid sources which convey my point of view, defend what I believe, and intelligently convey that which I believe in a more cogent manner.

I have asked these questions of The Democrats I know and have yet to get any good or consistent answers.

Who speaks for the Left/Democrat/Liberal people?
Who can I watch or listen that convey what you believe?
Who can Steel Man the Democratic position?

  1. Democrat said "I won't answer that question."
  2. Progressive Democrat said he would get back to me four months ago, but never has.
  3. Independent Democrat who said" Nancy Pelosi is the head of the party, but I don't agree with her."
  4. Progressive Democrat suggested Rachel Maddow who defends her positions well.
John_G 6 Mar 16
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1

I will chime on and say there are no easy answers to this as I think things are very much in flux right now on the left as we all know. The closest person I can think of that is fairly close to SOME of my lefty views is Kim Iverson (she is a bit further left than me), a new progressive news personality on youtube. she is good, knowledgable, prepared, reasoned and fair IMHO. I am going to try and post a link to her channel here and hopefully this site will let me.

Source:

Thank you for your honest opinion. I will have a look.
I won't prejudge the content and I won't hold you accountable for any opinions which are not your own.

@John_G thanks john!

1

It used to be the Clintons at the top of the Democrat party. Now that they're gone, everyone is jumping into the power vacuum.

Your questions have no answers right now, the Democrats are trying to figure out their positions and leaders now in the 2020 presidential primary, and it's anyone's game.

Your answer presumes that the Thought Leader for the Democrat party is also the Leader of the party. I want to know who their Dennis Prager, Ben Shapiro, Allen West, etc. Where's the comparable person.

1

Why can't people speak for themselves ?
Could you listen to what they have to say and let them convey their own beliefs ?
Are you genuinely interested in learning about their positions or just wanting to argue and attempt to force someone to agree with you to solidify your position ?

That's not the right question in my experience. The question is why won't they speak for their beliefs? I would listen if they would engage in a political discussion, but most won't. I am genuinely interested. I listened to a debate where someone gave the Steel Man position For Muslim terrorists. It was truly fascinating to see the other side. How can someone justify X, Y, or Z? When I listen to some of the Conservative speakers, I am usually more interested in the Q&A than most of the speeches.

@John_G The way your questions were phrased in your original post, I don't see anywhere you asked them what them to speak for their beliefs. Maybe they should don't care enough to engage when someone starts with throwing attack questions at them. It's not coming across as particularly friendly conversation, or as if you have a genuine interest in them the way it would if you asked an open-ended question about a specific topic.

@Catherine You assume too much. I did not say that I didn't ask their opinion, nor did I say that I started a discussion with these questions. Do you actually believe that these are Attack questions? I believe this gives them the opportunity to NOT be forced to defend their positions directly. To someone of a different belief system who asked, I would recommend reading C.S. Lewis as an ideal Apologist for the Christian Faith. I have my own beliefs about conservatism, but I may not always be able to convey them as concisely or with as much data on hand as some of the conservative thought leaders I follow. I often ask these questions when they seem at the end of their personal limit of knowledge or eloquence. I also believe it is a good gauge to find out where someone in a discussion sits Ideologically.

1

#4 ... !? Thankfully I didn’t have a mouthful of coffee when I read that.

Perhaps it would be more fruitful to ask who most closely aligns with their thought process ... or what they’d like to see ...
Your questions are a bit much to ask of them ... after all, I’ve suffered through decades of the “republican” offerings wondering pretty much the same things.
I voted Reagan reluctantly ...
I voted Perot knowing it was hopeless ...
Otherwise, I voted almost purely AGAINST the “other” candidate ...
I voted for McCain hoping that he’d keel over and leave Palin to run the country ... not that I was sure of her but she had some interesting ideas.
Although I don’t personally “like” him, I voted for Trump enthusiastically ...

I think the best thing we have going for us at the moment is that no ONE candidate for tge Democrats seems viable ... not even on single issues ...

2

I’m a leftist and I’m happy to discuss with you, but you’ll need to be a lot more specific.

The left doesn’t really have many strong men, we just have evidence...

Evidence of what? Can you answer that question?

@Serg97 ...the left tends to be more evidence based and rational than the right. Why do you think we dominate academic institions?

@Serg97 I am not a member of any political party, so just take this as constructive feedback.
Your question is way too vague. I recommend picking one topic on their agenda that you would like them to provide "evidence" supporting.

@InternetDorkWeb those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

@InternetDorkWeb How about answering my question. Pick a person and a topic. Is AOC your thought leader on any topic? How about Nancy Pelosi or Rachel Maddow?

@John_G One of the reasons you probably find left wingers won’t engage you on this is because it’s a malformed (and frankly dishonest) question.

Instead of asking me defend my own views, I am being asked defend someone else’s. Even if I have similar political views them, I have no control over what they have said or the arguments they have made.

This prompts the question of why you want use such a counter-intuitive approach. And be honest with you, the most straightforward answer is that you are trying straw man me. Even if they are “thought leaders”.

But if you want a list of prominent contemporary left wing intellectuals, then Yanis Varoufakis, Slavoj Zizek, Noam Chomsky, Christopher Hitchens, Paul Mason, David Harvey, Terry Eagleton, Mariana Mazzucato, Thomas Piketty or Ha-Joon Chang might be a good start.

AOC is a politician. She’s probably better than most alternatives in the US but I don’t know enough about her. I know even less about Pelosi. And Rachel Maddow, well... doesn’t she just read the news?

I mean if this is your idea of who the left’s “thought leaders” are, then I think that rather than trying to find people to debate, your time would be better spent trying to educate yourself about the left instead.
Like I’m no Conservative, but I’m at least familar with the basic ideas of Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, Thomas Sowell, Milton Friedman, Pat Buchanan... as well as an understanding of most prominent strands of Conservative thought.

@PatriotSailor Very cute, but most academics spend more time carrying out research and publishing papers than teaching classes.

Please, the next time one of these trite little cliches pops into your head, just don’t bother.

@InternetDorkWeb it was just as ridiculous as the comment that I replied to. Most educators being left of center has no bearing on the intelligence of that particular party in general. Otherwise why would they need to import so many illiterate, uneducated voters?

@InternetDorkWeb I'm quite confused by your reply. You seem to be arguing against my point while simultaneously making it for me. You actually answered the questions I asked. You simply gave me a list of names. I am not asking you to defend anyone else's position. I am not trying to Straw Man my ideological or political opposition, I am trying to find those who can Steel Man the Opposition's positions.
Thank you for the list. If you have a link, podcast, etc at hand it would also be appreciated. Although, as the Director of Face Punching I don't know if your opinion aligns with my own. I am not a fan of violence.

@John_G Well I’m not the only person who expressed concerns about the question. But if that wasn’t your intention, then no worries. I hope you find the names useful.

The bit about punching people in the face is what we in leftist circles like to call “a joke”.

@InternetDorkWeb the left doesn’t dominate academic institutions. The left has invaded academic institutions. The pseudointellectuals that make up the left have infiltrated universities to indoctrinate the malleable minds of university students. These are people who haven’t accomplished anything in their lives. All they do all day is pseudointellectual masturbation trying to mold society into some sort of eutopia that correlates with their morality which is driven by emotion. The exact opposite of scholarly academics which are based in thought and reason and not emotions. The truly revolutionary academics are for the most part conservatives who don’t share their views because they are afraid of the backlash from their leftist colleagues. Leftism is a virus. My ancestors were sent to Siberia to die in the Gulags drinking urine and eating tree bark. Why? Because they fought against the Nazis in WW2 and were war heroes which was extremely threatening to the communists who wanted to send anyone who could gain more political appeal straight to prison. The fact that you are a self described leftist and you’re so threatened by the IDW movement as to make a profile just to argue with the momentum of the conservative movement is proof of how indoctrinated you seem to be. Leftist idealogy at best ends of calls for equality of outcome and censorship of dissenting opinions and at worst genocide which has been replicated throughout the 20the century. I would never ever tell you you can’t share dissenting opinion. That’s the job of the leftists, in fact I would goth for your right to espouse your leftist views, but I am not sure why you would go around on a site in the name of the IDW trying to espouse leftism to people who clearly are tired of it and not because they have no exposure to it but because they know it as well as you do and simply don’t want to view the world through that diseased cancerous lense anymore. And if your profile bio is a sarcastic joke then I take it all back and forget I wrote this.

@mh123 “the fact you created a profile on the intellectual darkweb is proof of how indoctrinated you must be”

I would have thought seeking out dissenting views and stepping out of an echo chamber would make me less indoctrinated, not more. Unless merely thinking incorrectly is enough to make one indoctrinated in your eyes?

Your ancestors may have been persecuted by the Soviet Union, but it’s clear from your writing that you think the same way they did: you want to expel dissenting opinion. Your writing makes that very clear.

Meanwhile I am here talking to people knowing that I’m going to be in the minority, yet I proceed regardless and still treat people respectfully for the most part.

So I suggest you take your comments about the Soviet Union, and look at yourself in the mirror.

@InternetDorkWeb look, I wasn’t at all meaning to make you feel personally attacked. I simply stated a few beliefs of mine. I certainly did not nor would I ever say that you don’t belong on any forum. I just got here myself. If you felt like I was questioning your character I apologize. By all means dissenting opinion is welcomed I personally welcome it. I personally am incredibly angered by the current public narrative of if you disagree with the majority controlling the narrative you get shouted down as a racist Nazi homophobe and in doing so, censored. That isn’t at all my intention. I was just stating my opinion and the experience of my family. I am happy to discuss anything with you or anyone and if you disagree with anything I wrote then by all means I am happy to be challenged on it. And making a profile on an intellectual forum isn’t a sign of indoctrination. I’m trying to resist indoctrination. This is a forum for people to discuss their ideas. It has no political affiliation so I’m not sure how it could be a reflection of indoctrination. I do worry all the time that even tho I know in my soul that how I’m thinking now is right, I felt the same way when I was indoctrinated by the left and then too I was sure it was the righteous path. So we must always proceed with caution and question every impulse and notion. I would argue though that many on the left mainstream are lacking in that ability, the critical thinking necessary to resist indoctrination.

@InternetDorkWeb, @John_G

I want to thank InternetDorkWeb for the list of names too. I’ve only read and or seen tidbits of Chomsky, Eagleton and Hitchens. Solid thinkers, yes.
The rest I may try and search them out as well.

Interestingly, the list of Conservatives he amassed are exceptional of course with as Sowell (my fav). He might want to look into William F Buckley, Jr, Andrew McCarthy, and Mark Levin as well. One Libertarian comes to mind, Larry Elder.

I’d enjoy seeing debates by these Thinkers .. that would make for some interesting moments.

1

I don't think you're asking them a fair question

It sounds like you're asking them to commit to agree with every opinion/stance from a single source, even if that's not your intention. Do you you agree with every facet of every opinion and stance from the sources you rely on? I like Ben Shapiro a lot - but I don't agree with everything he says.

Instead, perhaps you could ask them to provide an article(s) that clearly lays out their beliefs in regards to a single topic. This would be easier for them than asking them to buy into everything published by a single author, pundit, website, etc.

I don't think it's unfair. If you asked me, I could give you five names. I don't have to agree with all of them on all issues to give the answer. I could qualify my answer by narrowing down topics with a specific person.

2

I run into the same issue. Nearly every time it either escalates into emotion based arguments or devolves into dismissal of my views based on identity politics.

Incredibly dishonest intellectualism. I feel like I’m doing fairly well at not allowing my frustration to show but it becomes very disheartening to even begin an engagement of discourse.

I don’t want to become bitter and cynical and equally dismissive but I fear I may end up doing so. Most of my discussions wind up with rhetorical vitriol being cast my way in place of substance.

Too many people looking to "win" rather than engage in discourse. I am not saying you are doing it, but intellectual dishonesty has become a term to throw at people in a name-calling way just because they don't agree with you.
I am as guilty as the next of engaging with people when it is a total waste of time, but they exist all over the spectrum, not just on the left.

@Catherine I had a discussion today regarding the NZ shooter throwing the White Supremacist sigh while in court. Someone commented that they didn't realize that the Okay sign was racist. I commented that Context Matters and linked to an article by the SPLC. A third person argued my position back and forth and eventually posted the original SPLC article to prove her point. That seemed a little Intellectually inconsistent to me.

@John_G Based on what little I know, the NZ shooter will do anything he thinks will get him an instant more of attention or create another ounce of controversy. I wouldn't say consistency is his forté in areas outside of target practice.

@Catherine To be clear, I was referring to the third person in the conversation being intellectually inconsistent. I have not read the shooter's manifesto so I cannot speak to his consistency.

1

Over the years I've asked similar questions to those I know who are Democrat/left-leaning, and more often than not I never receive a straight answer.

1

I think the problem currently to define a party stance on an issue is, people that identify themselves as Democrats would also somewhere in the line of Kennedy as liberals all the way to Bernie Sanders as communists so depending on where on that scale of leftist they fall will give you the answer as to who they think has the best message they're likely going to cannibalize each other my guess is for about a decade creating a new Normal

1

Mostly they argue from emotion rather than logic.
Their basic principles are found in Marx.
In addition to Marx, Lenin said: "The Dictatorship of the Proletariat is nothing less than POWER(being the sole boss), backed by FORCE(weapons and police/soldiers) and limited by Nothing--by no Law, and by no Rule."

So a powerful elite, without any definite law, that keeps the proles emotionally satisfied That is what they want. Either they are fools, or they plan on being the comrades in the Party that are well compensated while the rest of us work and starve.

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