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A theory is only as useful as its ultimate application

I am as big a fan of EPM (Endless Philosophical Masturbation) as the next man but the question of implementing all this highfalutin, ivory-tower-building, fancy big ol' word speakin' into the real world is what we are here to achieve, right?

So how does substantive, quantifiable, positive change occur through the words we type here? And let's fly straight past 'we're spreading awareness' shall we.

Let's be clear, we're in an echo chamber. In here, we are preaching to the converted. We're going to have fundamental differences of opinions on a number of key topics, sure, but the vast majority of our discussions are going to be expansive circle-jerks that will leave us with a warm after-glow but lacking in the genuine satisfaction of actually having DONE something.

if we're lucky we are 10% of the population. 50% of the remainder won't care about us (they won't care about anything other than the Kardashians or whatever other tripe is occupying their attention for the current 15 second cycle) 10% on the radical right are going to take on nonsense interpretations of the discussions had here to give the 10% on the radical left the fodder to call us Nazis. It's a tale as old as 4-chan.

That does however leave 20%. The people who are aware that things aren't right. Confused as to what is happening and why. Agreeing with much of what is being told to them but having it not sit as it should. Wanting to get involve but unsure what to do, how to do it and whether they will do more harm than good by doing anything.

This is where the war is fought. The question being 'how do we most effectively get to them?' By that I mean, how do we stop them from going to either one of the Left/Right extremes?

I realise that I am making a number of contradictory points. Who are 'we'? If I'm against identity politics, why am I creating groups and making an 'Us vs Them' battle cry? Isn't writing out 7 paragraphs of ambiguous crap, part of which states that we should avoid EPM in the form of EPM, somewhat dense? Probably. I'll rant some more soon but I'd love to hear your thoughts 🙂

#whatarewedoinghere

ilija 5 Mar 19
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6 comments

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1

Words matter! I remember an old phrase which is quite out of time in this modern world - "pen is mightier than a sword". It is said so because words can impact how thoughts are structured in one's brain. These thoughts can manipulate one's actions in a society. All these does not happen in 1 or 2 years but takes a long time. It's a slow process where the impact will be felt in a very gradual manner.

Good words, good thoughts needs to be spoken out loud - it doesn't matter if only 5% are listening to it. The 5% will multiply into 10% over perhaps 10 years and that's a good enough growth for something good. In the meanwhile several will suffer and go through pain which is precisely why the voice of the good few must sound louder.

With social media and internet, I see this happening profoundly. What lacked in the times of Einstein, we have now. Let us make best use of it and consciously sculpt a better future for all of us. The words we use determines the world we will live in.

Words are powerful!

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EPM LMAO

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My Opinion COUNTS!!!
To ME anyway and I don’t much care about those who say otherwise...
“Let ME Hear It for ME!!!”

Seriously, I get what you mean when you refer to an “echo chamber” but, in some ways I’m a contrarian or a clarifier ... which is to say that, if I find a weak spot in the conversation, I try to bring it out by posting either an argument about that point or try to eradicate the weakness by clarifying the argument.

So far ... there seems to be relatively little “echo chamber” effect ... nobody seems to have 274 “thumbs up” ... or even 20 ...
The site is new so ... that might change and I too hope it does not occur.

And you are important here.

Someone needs to be the contrarian (Devil's advocate) to force people to think beyond the obvious

Some of the greatest scholars benefited greatly from having there own personal "Knock" (C S Lewis reference)

0

Oh and I missed the part about “substantive and qualitive change in my first reply. For that, the only solution I’ve found so far is to apply what you learn here in your own life as best you can. Live the best life you can and people will start asking questions, allowing you to “spread the ideas” much more easily, and get others living in line with them too.

1

I disagree with the premise of your second to last paragraph. While undoubtedly a large portion of our efforts must be directed at the 20% (using your figures for ease, does not imply endorsement), we all have unique experiences that allow us to target different segments. For example, I’d be more concerned about getting as many of the 50%ers into the 20% and leaving them for the rest of you. This is because in my daily life I encounter way more of the former, even percentage-wise. With that also said, ideologically I can take on the extreme right easier than I can take on the extreme left, so I’d also put some efforts there. I think we need a team effort directed at the whole of society, just not every member of our team working on every member of society, a division of labour so to speak.

In terms of how to get that 20%, you have to first present them with an inoffensive, non-technical view of the world that explains their confusion, at least as well as you can while still keeping to the truth. Once you’ve built a rapport with the individual in question, you can then introduce the harder and darker concepts. So a tactical, individual interaction is the best way to win that type in my opinion.

I agree that getting to the 50% is important, however dragging people out of Plato's cave requires more effort than guiding the ones who have recently stumbled out and are standing, confused, blinking in the sun. Having said that, if you want to work on the 50% then more power to you 🙂

I agree that a team effort is called for: Whittling the 10% on the extremes down, bringing the 50% into the 20%, then bringing the 20% into whatever it is that we are labeling as being 'good.'

@ilija Couldn’t have said it better myself.

2

Well I can only speak for myself but I am not here to save the world or EPM.

I am here to learn.

I am here to find trustworthy news sources.

I am here to understand how the other side thinks.

I am here to get raw thoughts from people just like me without the flame wars and BS that I found on other social media sites.

I will try my best to add to discussions

I will stay until I am unable to do any of the above.

I am an old dude, I was on 4-chan in the early days, reddit from the beginning, Fark from its inception, Quora, GAB and Twitter. I will never stop searching.

I am also here to learn and possibly get some good sources. I tend to think there is more cause for hope than has been stated but I do understand what's being said here. I felt the same way on facebook when I first started posting there are as a Libertarian. I was obviously in the minority but after a few years, many of my friends have broken away from the two parties and conventional thought just from my posts and thoughts on various subjects. I really think there is something to " keep fighting the good fight" I think it has effects we don't always see.

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