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So here is question that I would love all thinkers & intellectuals to consider but be warned this is perhaps one of my more controversial thoughts.

This is never truer than when I hear the words “The Science is settled” Ironically, I don’t often hear it on campus (OK I do hear it on campus, now that I think about it), I tend to hear it much more often in media, and by those who could not even understand the science no matter how basic I try to make it. Is it science blended into dogma, or is it dogma blended into science?

The thought is not new, but has been on my mind for some time, Recent events in New Zealand, and the clamp down on freedom of speech should worry all of my fellow academics, but they seem to be promoting it and that has me wondering which of the following three things has happened.

  1. Has science been highjacked by a new religion? We talk about separation of church and state, where does church and science fit? Many early scientists were in, or leading the church, Mendel, Copernicus, Newton, and others were priests, or devout believers, and this did not limit them, but instead motivated them to find the hidden order of the universe, so traditional religion it seems should not be our fear, so where did the science is settled” come from. Ptolemy was a Greek who designed a plot of the stars. The state used it, to determine cycles, and it worked (complex) but it worked and modelled ok. As it fitted the church (earth at the centre of the universe) they defended it and adopted science into their dogma (yet the bible said the exact opposite, it revolved around the sun), so science changed church thinking, and they defended it. So, this is not looking likely

  2. Has the state highjacked science. In part there is some merit to this thought, Science need government money, and they only pay for what they can use, either for what it produces in terms of benefits, or in terms of proving their version of events. But dissent and opposing views are the basis of (Good) science – Hypothesis + Antithesis = New Thesis … ever changing, so not settled, unless you only fund the version you like, and allow all counter views to die. Are scientists being silenced… Maybe there is some evidence for this. More thought required, but political interference does exist, just not sure how much impact it has.

  3. Science has become a new religion. This is the scariest of all, but I am starting to consider that science now sees itself as the giver of divine truth, and the source of all wisdom, and no longer seekers of that hidden wisdom. If science has all the answers (I know it does not, but most people do not) then it has achieved a kind of papal authority. It has its apostles Dawkins, Sagan, Tyson, Hawking, Attenborough ... etc (yes even the dead can speak here) and its high priests in every university, high school and education centre. Its word is law, and dissent is not tolerated. And then like all religions, any other religion is not tolerated, except perhaps as a baby step on the path to true enlightenment. And I fear this may be the beginning of a new Dark Age

And so, I offer these thoughts to you to consider, to contribute, and help me evaluate the state of our scientific thinking. I wait your considered comments and opinions. But beware lest I ask hard questions of you. Maybe together we can nail our letter to the doors of the cathedral of science.

The_Q 7 Mar 26
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1

Two things come to mind for me on this topic.
1.) Where do scientist get their training and what is the current state of affairs of free speech in those settings? I think that does go along way to explain the lack of tolerance for questioning the prevailing consensus on any subject. Post-modernism is not in favor of facts or any object truths; it pooh-poohs the very notion that those things exist outside of a subjective perception. It is not going to teach respect for them. Reason and open scientific enquiry become a casualty of that.
2.) Leftism, Progressivism (whatever you want to call it) demands lockstep adherence of everything -- even the Boy Scouts and football. Why would science be any different? And why would scientists be any different than anybody else in fearing the wrath and damage to reputation that could be brought to bear upon someone who asks a question when they are really not so sure of the answer -- i.e. just enquiring?

great Question. Universities were traditionally the centres for free speech, free thought (think Berkley, 60's LSD) … even back in origins, they trained critical thinking, not topics, But now, it seems like thinking is actually not permitted, and its about "FACTS

To work in science you need a degree, and to get the degree, your professor has to sign off your work.

To become a professor you need a PHD, and that needs your peers to review and accept your work (not critique it) . so One has to ask how free are our universities. I won't give an opinon, I'll let you consider it.

But great linking of training to outcomes here, Love the thinking behind it, and I have to say What a fantastic contribution to the discussion.

A little sad, there is not a bit more defense here, maybe science in its current form is hard to defend. But yes peer review is a form of peer pressure, Hard to stand against the flow, when they decide if you get published.

And trust m. Its publish or perish. … Which is why I work in the Labs 🙂

@The_Q Thanks for the kind words. Yes, universities used to teach critical thinking -- that is how to think, not what to think. Without free and open discussion, what to think becomes the rule of the day.

2

I don't have the answer, but here are some thoughts on it.

I think you hit on a real point with separation of church and state. At some point during the 20th century, or maybe even the late 19th, science and religion split into two separate coins rather then being two sides of the same coin. Up until this point, most science was done by or funded by the church, right?

Then this split, for lack of a better term, happens, and what we begin to see is science v religion. You start to see this mindset on both sides that both can not be true at the same time. Then I think an all out war ensues.

In war you use every tool at your disposal to achieve victory and the fighting can get quite vicious. I think we are seeing the effects of this war today.

Lately it has seemed that science is winning to some extent, if not by numbers then by having the ability or freedom to manipulate the state to it's agenda. It's a built in advantage they have because the constitution does not allow religion to be the basis of laws, so to speak. There is no such thing as separation of science and state.

However, the pendulum may be starting to swing the other direction. As science digs deeper and deeper into things like quantum mechanics and DNA, it becomes more and more apparent that intelligent design may actually be a real scientific possibility. I think this scares a lot of scientists, and this fear is causing some of the erratic and dogmatic behavior we see now.

Interesting, Thanks for the pendulum comment, There could well be some truth here. there certainly seem to be a paradigm shift in some areas of thought.

2

Rem acu tetigisti

Thank you, But my Latin's so poor I had to look it up to be sure 🙂

0

Pope Benedict XVI basically provides a discussion of #3 from a Catholic perspective (and a critique of the "new religions" ), in his letter "Spe Salve" (starting at Section 16, link at end):

My summary of the sections:
16. The discovery and development of the scientific method introduces a new era in human thought.
17. People used to hope in God for salvation; now, this hope has been replaced with "faith in progress".
18. It seems like reason and freedom, by themselves, will guarantee progress and lead to a better world. However, people often saw reason and freedom as being in conflict with the Church and the political structures of the time.
19. The French Revolution placed hope in reason and freedom alone leading to a better world. However, the second half of the French Revolution reveals that pure reason and freedom might actually lead to a worse world.
20. Marxism, and the social conditions leading to its rise, are discussed. Marxism does not hope in Science to provide progress, but rather hopes that Politics will provide progress, by calling for revolutionary change.
21. Marxism doesn't work either. "[Marx] forgot that freedom always remains also freedom for evil. He thought that once the economy had been put right, everything would automatically be put right." "...it is not possible to redeem [man] purely from the outside by creating a favourable economic environment."

[w2.vatican.va]

Thanks I will look it up, even though I'm hardly what you would call catholic. But appreciate the link.

@The_Q Yeah, only sections 16-21 will be interesting to you then. I say sections, but they're really more like paragraphs.

1

A scientific theory can only be regarded as fact when other scientists, independent of the first can duplicate the finding by experiment

The illuminated ones want to tell us it's settled while withholding the data they used from us.

They also condemn skeptics (those "Climate deniers" ), whereas real science invites sceptical inquiry

They want to change the rules when winning doesn't happen, like they want to eliminate the Electoral College because Trump won by a large margin

If Obama had won by half that margin the MSM would be crowing about "The Landslide"

Climate Science is outside my field, But I have many academics with whom I work, who publicly support the status quo, while privately expressing concern over transparency, so Appreciate your thoughts here.

The derision of any that oppose you is common in religious extremism, so does that lead towards outcome 3 - Popular Science has reached a religious fervour, where dissent is not permitted?

Thanks for the contribution.

0

Certain idiolougs will affirm 'science' if its backs their argument/agenda. But science facts , for example there being only 2 genders, is not acceptable and either the 'science' is still out on that or its just 'hate speech '. True scientists will work on provable facts and reproducible results but if their results contradict certain agendas they get shut down and possibly shunned by their peers. So i guess todays state of science is much like the political climate of the Catholic church at its height of power.

I guess that in the state high-jacking argument - ish.. So is guess there is a question of how much should science stand its ground, when facts vs Ideology clashes. Are facts fluid? or are we just pandering to the convention of the day.

As always more food for thought.- Thanks for the contribution. I really appreciate the opinions

2

I believe it's relative to the topic. AGW has become a religion. Its followers believe without a doubt that it is happening and become furious when you question it. The CDC expects us to inject our children with every single vaccine it can come up with. When we ask whether its necessary or safe they throw the word science at us. In that case I would say science has been hijacked by the state. I am having trouble thinking of an example of a religion hijacking science.

Love the thoughts, Thanks

3

None of the above. A legitimate scientist welcomes and learns from refutation. No science is ever "settled".

Regarding the free speech controversy, I support the statement: Anyone who says "I am in favour of free speech, but ... " is NOT in favour of free speech. I despair for the future of academia if this trend continues.

so would it be accurate to then state, there are two sciences .

Popular science = Religion & real science = learn from refutation?

Thanks for the input. Appreciate your contribution.

Well said.

@The_Q pretty accurate statement. Joe Hazelton said it best. Lab coats are the new Black Ermine robes

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