slug.com slug.com

15 1

Tell me - Is it OK to talk about socialism and communisms like synonyms? Do you think there may be a bit of conservative propaganda attached to the interchangeable use of these terms?

Naomi 8 Apr 7
Share

Be part of the movement!

Welcome to the community for those who value free speech, evidence and civil discourse.

Create your free account

15 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

0

The thing is, both are economic models based on ownership of the means of production, and really consider each individual and his labor potential to be the means of production. Under socialism it is owned by the State; under communisim it is owned by the collection of economic units. Neither are competent managers of production.

The result being, individuals become slaves to incompetence, either way.

Hi, thanks for your input. Do you think it is possible that while a government is big it does not interfere with citizens' individual rights and freedom?

@Naomi I don't see how that could be possible. Even a very small, very defined, very limited government exists for the very purpose of setting limits on some interactions and commanding others.

How about Scandinavian/Nordic countries, like Norway, Sweden, etc.?They certainly don't follow pure socialist ideas, but they have democratically-elected governments which are large and are supported by taxpayers who pay rather a lot of tax, thereby enabling providing health care, education, pensions, etc. which are free for every citizen. Maybe we can call it compassionate capitalism... ?

0

I would say that socialism and communism differ, principally, in who owns the means of production. Marx wrote the COMMUNIST manifesto and thinks that the proles should own production. Socialism seems to specialize in taxing capitalists to redistribute wealth and create huge gov't bureaucracies for their nanny state social programs.

Hi. Thank you for your input. The problem I have with socialists and communists is that they both hate the rich including those who worked hard and became successful in their own right...

1

There is a creature called Socialism. Communism was the first of its Socialistic kind and it was alive and well by the time of the French Revolution, though they did not realize what it was called. Fascism was created as the third way. Capitalism existed Communism developed, and Mussolini who was a big man in the Internationals, as his father was before him created Fascism. Mussolini realized he was proud to be an Italian and developed what he called the third way. Along comes Hitler and added a racial component to Fascism and created Nazism.
Communism is also called International Socialism. Hitler's National Socialism, aka the Nazi party. Now you have the two extremes of Socialism, both of which took their philosophy from the teachings of Karl Marx. Marx was not an original thinker, he merely collated what was already present in society. Fascism/Nazism is to the Right of Communism, both are in the Socialist category and to the Left of the political spectrum.
The International focus vs. National focus is the main difference between the two philosophies. A secondary difference is that the Communists will send in party leaders to run the major industries, whereas the Nazis will pass so many laws that the owners/managers have no discretionary authority.

Let's toss aside the philosophical aspects of these 2 totalitarian systems. If you irritate Stalin, if you survived the interrogation by the KGB, it was off to the gulags. If you irritate Hitler, if you survive the interrogation by the Gestapo, it was off to the camps. Both were systems in which the government had all the rights and the people had none. In both systems, the leaders were supported by the military and secret police. What is the difference?
I have spoken in some general terms for the sake of brevity and it is not necessary to point them out. There are a couple of so-called differences, but they are propaganda from the Communists to distance themselves from the Nazis. I consider Communism and Nazism to be Bastard Siblings joined at the hip and both belong in Hell. If you have a question or concern, I can get really detailed.

Hi, Thank you awfully for your time explaining all this.

3

It seems that the hope of those who advocate socialist policies is that it would operate very differently from communism in the sense that the people would maintain their freedom and be taken care of.
The challenge is that for a government to be strong enough to be effectively socialist, it has the power to become communist without any appreciable resistance. The freedom is already surrendered and we just hope that the government continues to be kind.
This loss of freedom is why capitalists tend to equate the two. The joy of capitalism isn't that it has no faults or problems, it's that we remain free to solve our own problems.
Because no-one who depends on another is truly free. Such an individual will ALWAYS be at the mercy of those they depend on.

Hi, Thanks for your input. I realise you're in Canada, and I think Canada is unique in its own right. You have fine socialistic systems that provide people with good education, health care, housing, etc., no? Also, systems can vary from province to province, something like that... I'm showing my ignorance here. lol Would you tell me more, if you have time?

@Naomi I would be happy to.
I have no real complaints regarding our healthcare system. It can be excruciatingly slow at times but I/we had 4 babies in hospital and my Dad had a major surgery to remove a tumor and none of that put me into financial crisis.
As far as education, it had been ok. Lately there has been an incredible push to force ideology into the system and any school board that does not want to participate (Catholic, Private, Home-School) is being threatened with losing accreditation.
That's the problem. It's great until it isn't but then what can you do? They have all the power.
Housing is free market. Regulated to some degree but mostly in terms of loan qualifications.

@Adavad Very well stated.

Thank you! Sounds like we're living in a parallel world. I live in the UK, and I can't complain about the national healthcare system. The NHS is in financial trouble, and we have long waiting lists, but the medical staff are holding their standard high and most services are free for everyone at the point of delivery. As for education, very similar to Canada, it is under much influence of political correctness and identity politics, which I think shouldn't be. Like Canada, some of the British systems are socialistic, and to be frank, they work well where there isn't much multiculturalism is involved - funny it's coming from an immigrant like myself. LOL. Again, thanks for your contribution - I feel I learnt a lot. Take care.

I meant to tell you that you made a very good point in your original comment. Thank you.

2

So, while there is no clear-cut between socialism and communism, we understand, in theory, that:
when most property and economic resources are owned and controlled by the state and not by individual citizens, that's communism; and
when all citizens share equally in all economic resources as allocated by a democratically-elected government, that's socialism. Something like that.
I can see how the latter definition (socialism) may appeal to many, especially working-classes. I think it is important to remember that these theories developed in protesting and protecting against the exploitation of working-classes during the Industrial Revolution, when they lived in extreme poverty which is beyond our imagination. I also think it's difficult to identify countries as being pure communist or socialist. I read somewhere that Cuba, China and North Korea are considered communist, but there are capitalist elements to the economic system of China for example. And some states identify themselves as socialist but are run by communist parties... It's too confusing for my tiny brain to handle!
In any event, we equally loathe socialism and communism because we can't get out of our heads for a second the terrible consequences that were brought by implementing these theories in the last century, hence using them interchangeably and like synonyms.
But then, there are advanced countries which are identified as socialist (or may be "socialistic" more correctly?) such as Scandinavian countries. They don't follow pure socialist ideas, but they have democratically-elected governments which are large and are supported by taxpayers who pay rather a lot of tax, thereby enabling providing health care, education, pensions, etc. which are free for every citizen. And although the governments are big, they don't interfere with people's individual rights and freedoms, and they also have highly successful capitalist sectors that promote free trade. So, if this kind of model still falls within the scope of socialism, it may be a little problematic to use socialism and communism interchangeably...? Perhaps, the definition of socialism itself is problematic as it is very broad. In that case, it may be better to use "totalitarianism" as a synonym of a system where a government dictates everything and people have very little or no freedom.

So, considering the above points, do you think there may be an element of propaganda coming from conservatives, by using socialism and communism like synonyms, as a means of scaremongering even, in an effort of suppressing socialist opponents like Jeremy Corbyn in the UK and Bernard Sanders in the US and their followers?

Good point. The term "alt-right" is often used interchangeably with "radical right", "extreme right" or even just "right wing" in a similar attempt to scaremonger about those on the other half of the political spectrum.

3

"Communism is just Socialism with extra steps".
"Communism is just Socialism with less freedom".
"Socialism is just Communism with good PR".

Use what sticks to your wall better.
(yes I used a Rick & Morty référence)

7

"There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." - Ayn Rand

#aynrand, #atlasshrugged

1

Nope, because they share the same underlying corrupt anti-laws of nature and natures God concepts. Communism, fascism, socialism are different peas in the same degenerate pod.

5

Sprinkle a little authoritarianism and Totalitarianism in Socialism and you get Communism

5

Communism is a form of socialism. It is revolutionary in nature and that is how it achieves the socialist state. It is socialism in a hurry, as I have heard it described. There are other evolutionary forms of socialism but he end goal is the same. You will notice that every communist nation was realized through revolution. The USSR, China, Cuba, Viet Nam, North Korea the Russian soviet satellites. They were all, or are still called communist nations. Venezuela is called socialist as the socialist party was voted in. Even though marxist communism is an internationalist, not a nationalist, movement.

The Communist manifesto and the manifesto of the NSDAP (National Socialist German Worker's Party) are quite similar themselves and have some similarities to the New Green Deal, like free education, free healthcare, full employment. It is impossible for them to deliver those things though. There has to be a production of wealth to pay for them. This is why creeping socialism works for awhile, as long as there is a productive class that can be robbed to pay for it.

5

Ummm ...
No matter how you “slice” or “define” it,...
Socialism is Communism Light.

In fact it has been quite clearly written several times by proponents of “Socialism” that Socialism is the first major step to Communism.

I would point out that BOTH are Actually Direct Paths to TOTALITARIANISM.

The USSR, Union of Soviet "Socialist Republics" = Communist.

@FrankZeleniuk
Actually Totalitarian ... just like Mao ...
People call them Communist or Socialist except the People ... the “Society ... are completely ignored and the “Government Big Wigs” call ALL the “shots” figuratively AND literally.
If you don’t do as the Government has decided you should, there’s a pretty high likelihood that you’ll end up dead.
That seems like Totalitarianism to me.

6

Have you ever read the Communist Manifesto? Most people, in western societies especially, have no understanding of the differences between socialism and communism. Here is a VERY simplistic explanation in the difference between the two. Socialism allows you the delusion you actually have a say. Communism just removes the delusion. Lol So while yes, they are technically two different political systems and not interchangeable, if allowed to run it's course, a socialistic country will. inevitably become a communist country. Most socialists don't like admitting that tho. Lol So, in the political climate we are in now, you are better off making a clear distinction between the two so I wouldn't use them interchangeably.

Well ... while I’m not quite sure I agree with you ... I see them as the “Gateway” Political Systems to Totalitarianism ...
I have to ask, WHAT are you “Laughing” at?

@Bay0Wulf what am I laughing at? At this point it is either laugh at people's blatant, willful stupidity or be so disgusted by it I stop interacting with humanity all together.

Oh, and Communism is an example of totalitarianism. So it can't be a "gateway" to the other. LOL

Yes, I have read the Communist Manifesto.

2

They can be, and are, technically distinct. However, their basic motivational origins, and ultimate effect are the same. In my mind it is a distinction without a difference.

6

They used to be pretty interchangeable in my country (former Czechoslovakia). Socialism was for Marx a stepping stone to communism. As socialism on its own inevitably leads to an economic and social collapse, I think that equating it with communism is not too much of a mistake.

4

Socialism is the pretty word the Left uses to change societies by killing their social values, their strenght, their moral, then their lives. Socialisn is the nice theory on how societies should work. Communism is the Socialism experiment, its Socialism already in its full practice.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:28375
Slug does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.