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WILL CHINA INVADE TAIWAN IF RUSSIA MOVES ON UKRAINE? --- WELL WE COULD NEVER CONDONE EITHER .......... BUT WHO ARE WE TO PREACH WHEN WE SPENT YEARS INVADING OTHER COUNTRIES LIKE IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN?


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lindasteel 7 Jan 20
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Umm... who are we? We're the coalition that saved the sovereign nation of Kuwait from Saddam Hussein when he invaded them, just like Xi wants to absorb the Republic of China (Taiwan), and Putin Ukraine.
If you remember, we amassed at the border and put on a very public and very very expensive show for 5-months trying to get Hussein to leave peacefully.
He didn't.
We only went back the second time after a solid decade of Hussein ignoring the 16 worthless U.N. Security Council resolutions that were intended to make him less of a threat to his neighbors (and especially to the Saudi and Kuwaiti oil fields); and we were welcomed by the Iraqi people with cheers and open arms... people seem to forget that part.
People also like to pretend that it was a reaction to 9/11. When, in fact, by 2001 it had already been the official policy of the United States for 3-years, to "...support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq", through Bill Clinton's bipartisan 1998 Iraq Liberation Act.
"Support efforts..." implies some measure of coalition consensus, or at least the intent to pursue it.
9/11, just like "WMDs", was good for rallying support, but it was never "the reason" for liberating the Iraqi people.
The "war", itself, was over in about 3-weeks; lasting from 20 March to 09 April 2003.
The reason the operation dragged out for so long after, is simply because we stuck around to "nation-build"... should've just left. As the diplomatic clipboard-warriors dragged their feet and screwed up one thing after another trying to plant a "democracy", the support of the Iraqi people began to break apart and insurgent forces had the chance to materialize and organize.
From then on, we were just trying to protect the new "government" (at their request, mind... that's not an "invasion" ) and help them to establish civil institutions, while they busied themselves trying to get their act together while stuffing their own pockets.
Still, it was increasingly becoming a sustainable peace-keeping relationship... much like the U.S. Forces in S. Korea for the past 70-years under the auspices of the United Nations, but even more urgent because the host government was still actively under attack.
That's why leaving the way we did and when we did, was a stupid, stupid thing to do.
The Coalition started pulling out in 2009, a couple months after Obama announced that we were abandoning them on the battlefield, from which the U.S. finally retreated in 2011... just in time for his re-election campaign.
...and the entire effort went up in flames, like, the next day.

Afghanistan... much the same story.
We gave the Taliban a chance... told them to hand over Bin Laden or we're coming to look for him and taking them out as well.
They refused.
The "war" lasted about a month... then began the "nation-building" by the U.N.'s International Security Assistance Force (ISAF); meaning, primarily, the U.S. and the UK.
Again... the Afghans were glad to be rid of the Taliban, and wanted us to stay... that's not an "invasion".
And... once again... Joe Biden, who claims that the disastrous un-forced retreat from Iraq was "his job" to carry out under Obama; turns around and does exactly the same thing in Afganistan 10-years later.
With (surprise) exactly the same result.
Acting Commander in Chief Joe Biden is responsible for the single most disastrous, most devastatingly consequential in terms of both strategic posture and reputation, and... simply the most-dumb military blunder of which I am aware throughout all of history. He'll be studied in future military academies.
We could've easily just stayed indefinitely... just like S Korea, which exactly nobody refers to as the "70-year war", because that's just dumb. We should have at-least held out however-long it took to prevent the wholesale slaughter and re-subjugation of an entire nation of people who thought we had their backs.... because we said we had their backs.

Who's ever going to trust us again? Not just the U.S.... the West and the U.N.
Hell, Taiwanese and Ukrainians know as well as everybody else that Joe Biden even abandoned his own people running away from Afghanistan; why should they trust him, or any Western "coalition"?

If either of them... or, likely both of them, are invaded by China and Russia respectively, THAT is what an actual "invasion" looks like: Initiating hostilities where none existed, in an attempt to conquer and assimilate.
And in that event, we in the West should absolutely condemn it, and we should do everything we can to help protect both of these relatively democratic, sovereign nations from the Imperialism and the strategic ambitions of their neighbors... for our sake as well as theirs.

Because, to answer your question: THAT is who we are.

And if we want to get any of our credibility back... maybe this time we should mean it.

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