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A potential measure for thought diversity

One downside of social media is it's propensity to create echo chambers - that is, grouping people with similar views together so they re-enforce each other and create a "group think" dogma. This has the unwanted effect of rewarding those with the most extreme views by making them the thought police.


I'm working on an idea to try to measure the acoustics of our <strong>discussion</strong> or how diverse are the people commenting on a given post. The technique could also provide a way to estimate how similar you are with other members (i.e., so you can quickly learn something about them other than their username).


One way to do this is to ask members specific questions on a range of issues. While we might do later, it has a problem of getting people to do it. Another way, is to look at the things members do and guess based on that. I started by analyzing the tags (keywords) used in posts and comments to come with several sets of tags for you.


Towards that end, I'd like to get your thoughts on which of these tag or topics you feel most accurate reflect your interests (note: the list don't imply your opinion pro/con/etc). The lists below are already customized for you (everyone is different). I'm only asking to get your feedback in general here as it's a work-in-progress. Also, I want to be 100% transparent (unlike Facebook, Google, Twitter, etc).


Simple - this just lists the most popular tags in things you post, currently shown as an option on your profile)

Not enough info


Posts - this is the "simple" list sorted in a way to highlight unexpected or less popular ones.

Not enough info


Views - this shows the unexpected or less popular tags from posts that you view. This one has the benefit of not requiring you to post things but is not a candidate to show on your profile page (or to anyone).

Not enough info


BTW, I've no idea yet if this approach, or even the idea of using AI to assist community interaction, will be useful. An obvious issue with tags is that it doesn't provide much insight of you are pro/con/neutral to a topic. Either way, I promise to keep you posted and consider feedback. Thanks!

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Admin 8 Apr 15
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24 comments

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7

I don't even look at the tags. I read what people write.

7

Given the nature of the IDW, I don't think you're likely to get a great deal of diversity. While much of the IDW professes to be on the left, most of them are closer to libertarians than the current breed of leftist. They are prepared to discuss and defend their views and they would like others to do the same. That's a rare breed on today's left.

It's good that you are trying but, I'm not sure this approach will do what you want. I think I know what you'd like to attract. From what I've seen, most people on here tend to have a conservative/libertarian perspective. I think you're looking for people with a leftist slant that are willing to defend their viewpoints in a civil manner. I'd like that too but, those people are few and far between.

In my experience, most of the left would rather call you names than engage your arguments. That's assuming they will talk to someone that disagrees with them at all.

Those leftists do self select out of such discussions I think. Speaking with a broad brush and using generalizations from my experience, their motives are to distract and propagandize, weaken discussions through trolling. Honestly they are not interested in truth or rational discussion. Just propaganda. They're not going to be interested in "discussion" on a forum where they can't silence other views by reporting posts or some other such mechanism.

Liberals, on the other hand, probably post here already. They probably just get mistaken for libertarian or conservative.

@WingedRyno I agree completely. You may be quite right. Liberals, in the classical sense, may very well be on here. However, the line between that point of view and libertarian is difficult to distinguish in this setting. They also tend to be pretty appalled by what the left has become. That's why I used left as opposed to liberal when I commented. The classical liberal point of view wouldn't stand out here.

2

The tags help to sort, but really, I'm just appreciating the transparency here.

2

I commented before, but it just hit me, to accurately judge, how are you going to offset the skew that a few minority vocal people have on your numbers? You could have one REALLY active person posting and commenting, that is 10 times more active than most. With only a few of them plus the Pareto principle (80/20 rule), you only get a metric to gauge the most vocal part of the community, not the community at large.

True, it's something to factor in the calculation. I don't fear algorithms so long as they are clear to members and have a goal that's not maximizing revenue but to improve the discussions.

2

Maybe I’m not social media-aware enough; I don’t understand what’s being asked and how it will affect discussions. If there’s one thing I do know, it’s that I’m all for implementing any strategy that will discourage an echo chamber.

Oh, I'm just trying to do something that I don't thinks been done before - grouping people with a goal of getting a mix of views. Facebook and Twitter, for example, select people and posts to show up in your feed that maximize their ad revenue (e.g., same views and avoid conflict). Yes, we're currently too small to consider clustering, but it's just an idea to research.

@Admin, I think it’s the use of tags that’s confusing me because I have never used them. Am I interpreting that correctly? If commenters and posters tag the majority of their posts then you would manipulate the tags to identify groups and/or disperse groups?

2

I'm skeptical that categorizing people can be productive or constructive . It has the potential of being impersonal and potentially damaging .

1

I would be considered right wing by most LIBS.
I have interest in many topics and strong opinions on most.
I don't know if this will help IDW, but I'm willing to do what I can to help.
This is the only social media site I use, and have not even bothered with the others.
Let's keep this going.

1

a nobly motivated idea but it does not take into account several things: first, human nature. While almost all human being naturally compartmentalize very few will willingly pigeon hole themselves: next thing; this idea in a way overlooks the reason people gravitated toward IDW community in the first place. Here at IDW they have found a veritable oasis where they can vent their own fears and ideas - in a sense your members are like refugees who have fled the hostile environs of Facebook, twitter, youtube and IDW is a much needed and sought after place for people to put their "wrong think" ideas without being punished for doing so. The third and I think the most significant factor is that your idea seeks to do just the opposite of what you say you are trying to facilitate. You just cannot systematically pigeon hole people and then expect them to feel any impulse to "investigate the other side of the socio-political spectrum" - it seems unreasonable to ask people to self identify as "X" and then expect they will go out to see if perhaps "Y" is better - better than themselves is the tacit message there.

1

I don’t pay attention to tags.. but I dig the transparency and effort.

1

As for the group think ppl are pack hunters we naturally become a part of a group but each group is a group of individuals with their own views and ideas which makes the group smarter and stronger so im not sure what you should put a rating system on this natural human behavior i think this will change the natural path of proper human interaction. i also seen that a video was removed from the platform that at least one person was bothered by it i got to see a part of the video and dismissed it because the ppl that produced it were obviously close minded and stupid so as a libertarian i don’t want any free speech or expression cencered i truly believe that it hurts us all i also believe that the idw community will deal with this as we se fit. thanks for your time and your platform so far it has been a great experience

1

People naturally congregate, which is why echo chambers form (especially when facilitated by AI sorting). How would sorting or tagging people change that?

Are we going to somehow 'force' people to interact on IDW with groups or posts they don't 'opt in' on?

What am I missing?

1

I love the transparency and seeking input. Even if I don't have enough situational awareness to offer anything useful as in this case, it's still great to be asked. Thank you!

1

It is difficult in this day and age of data to organize the vast array of what is out there for consumption. I work with large sets of data IRL and trying to tag the content is necessary, for making sure you see what you want. The issue I think you might run into is that IF the data could be marked up fully that the echo chamber you want to identify and avoid will in face become greater. The tagging will allow us to, if only unconsciously, to avoid certain discussion and favor others that we want. Unless I am missing the mark of what you are trying to accomplish with the tagging.

1

I think that the biggest issue that you will run into with something like this is that you have no way to add/remove humor/sarcasm and such things from the reality of a person's beliefs. For instance mine shows lesbian, avocados, and guacamolematters ! Go ahead, profile that!

0

I think it is fairly easy to tear Libs a new one as they are such knee - jerk psychopaths. That is why not that many participate. It is easy to prove them wrong with facts they do not want to hear. They believe they have the moral high ground of Virtue Signal emotions. I have been on some sites in the past where there was more back and forth and they are gone now. The arguments tend to go in a circle road to nowhere.

0

When I use tags it’s because I want to identify topics in the post so others interested in that topic can find it.
So if you included a tag like #democrat in my profile, I want to delete it because I don’t identify with that tag.
Maybe instead of using the tags to identify a persons “swim lane” how about using their profile response? At least that way it might better reflect that person.
Good luck with your attempt to try something that hasn’t been done - am sure you will succeed.

0

I'm a bit skeptical as to whether or not tags would be enough to advance discussions, as like you had mentioned above tags do not exactly specify stance on issues (pro, against, undecided etc). Now, involving AI into the equation sounds like a reasonable next step...

0

I like the questions. Maybe people would be incentivized to complete the questionnaire by offering badges to help identify on where they stand on key issues. This would be somewhere like on their photo. That way it's easily identiable and we can see who's debating, echoing or exploring the other side.
But as another commenter already pointed out, I haven't seen much diversity of thought here- save a nut job or two.

0

The open platform was removed there is really not way for new members to say a look open post area, but your worried about echo chambers now? I don't use hash tags i it does a hash tag on it's own I don't know that. Some are complaining that the sight is becoming to conspiracy minded, Free thought is to policed now? YOU CAN NOT PLEASE EVERYONE STOP TRYING. tell us what your product is we can choose to use it or not. Sounds fair to me. Who else agree's or can add to this statement?

0

Seems like it's overthinking things a bit. If it turns into an echo chamber of sorts it's just a natural result of like minded people finding each other. Besides, given the plethora of left leaning platforms, forums, media, acedemia, entertainment, etc etc, having a place for true liberals (today's conservatives) isn't such a bad thing is it? It's not like you're excluding anyone, but rather letting the market do it's thing. After all, we may be the silent & independent majority, but even independents need a friendly place to crash from time to time.

0

If what we want to do is value a persons argument, I don't know if you should give people some "history" on each people arguing. If they really want to dig in their past let them do it in their own way so they actually read what the person has done so far. This brief tag list almost look like it helps people put one an other in boxes that do not help a conversation at all.

  • Maybe something along the lines of "this user and you are like minded" and "this user and you have different views" could be developped based on those tags.

This could become an interesting functionality, it can be polished and it could give you the end result you are looking for.

0

The more technology changes the more the world remains the same. Many of you aren't old enough to remember the radio days. Radio broadcasting developed into echo chambers just as newspapers and magazines had done before. Each media let individuals select the topics and individuals with whom they wished to associate. The interactions by the public with these medias was through the mails, fan clubs, and reactions in the market place.

Most of us never venture out of our backyards, it is human nature to want to feel safe. Some of us will explore the neighborhood and a very few of us will explore the city of knowledge and opinion. Every individual has a comfort zone and individual variation tells us that such zones differ with each individual. Your question is how do we entice each individual to expand that comfort zone, to expand association with more individuals who represent more differing knowledges and opinions. That has been one of the great questions of the ages. I can't say that there is an answer for a medium that on one hand offers immediate access to a great diversity of thinking and feeling while encouraging insular comfort. If one walks the streets of one's neighborhood one becomes exposed to other individuals one may not know. But how does the individual walk the internet blog site? Is it random choice, chance occurrence?

Perhaps the old Dewey Desimal (god, I wish I could spell correctly) System would be an idea worth using here. Author, Blog Tittle, subject matter expanded. I have been out of the database business for almost twenty years and the last one I worked on was an indexed relational data base. I don't know how it would translate o a social media data base operation. With newspapers and magazines, radio and television, one selected the channel of media where one found the individuals one wanted to enjoy. If one was lucky one could find a reliable guide to all the media so as to find the main channel for other individuals one might enjoy.

I hope this helps you.

0

Here’s a thought-
Background: I like certain topics that I support but that makes it harder to get exposure to content outside of my bubble, which is what I want.

Question: So how do I continue to show support for posts yet not fall prey to my own echo chamber?

Solution: What if there was a slider option of content you want to see? So each person can choose for themselves at what level of exposure of supporting or opposing topics they want.

Social Ai: This resembles what people do in the f2f world- they associate with the groups they want, make friends with those they want. In the f2f it’s not some predetermined encounter that connects you with other people. There is some chance but also has a lot to do with the situations people put themselves in.

Conclusion: This would allow people to make the conscious decision of who they meet, and what they intake. It’s personal freedom. It’s augmentation as opposed to automation. Using Ai to make decisions easier not make decisions for us.

0

Categorization and labeling should be ketp for item's and thing's not people. We are all individuals meant to be different, experience different express diff. Learn diff. Ect. What one tag mean's to me may mean something different to another.

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