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First, I'm so happy I found this community. I have spent the past several years completely disoriented at a core level as the classical liberal rallying cry I still hold sacred of "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Has somehow been replaced by "You can say anything that we agree with, but if you say something we don't agree with, or challenge our assertions in any way, you are a biggoted, priviledged tyrant who needs to be silenced" in "liberal" politics and "discourse." There is nothing liberal about this stance, and it can't be termed "discourse" because its sole purpose is to shut down discourse, which it does with frightening effeciency.

This is terrifying to me. Actually terrifying. I'm terrified when I see major university after major university cancel guest speakers because someone or other is offended by what the speakers have to say. Or when the universities hold their ground and allow the "controversial" speakers, but the protesters drown out the speakers, silencing them as effectively as if they had succeeded in bullying the universities into cancelling the speakers in the first place. Shoot, if they really disagreed with the speakers positions, it would serve their arguments better to attend the speech, pay attention, take notes, and deconstruct the shit out of their arguments, then publish this rational deconstruction as a response to the speaker. I can't understand why it's hard for so many people to grasp why this is better than censorship.

Isn't half the point of higher education to teach critical thinking skills, like how to use reason to make or challenge an argument? And why good ideas are the best medicine for bad ideas, NOT censorship? What are the implications if higher education stops teaching these as fundemental to academic scholarship and public discourse, or are prevented from doing so?

This brings me to why I'm posting. It seems people can no longer tolerate being offended. I have to confess, I get offended all the time, I'm human. The problem isn't that people get offended too easily, in my opinion. I think it's their reaction to the discomfort of being offended that is problematic. They seem to feel like they have the right to live their whole lives without ever having to confront anything that might possibly offend them.

I see things differently. I like being offended at what people say because it presents me with an intellectual challenge or two. The first is to observe my internal emotional response and to interrogate it (I'm a bit contrarian by nature, so I have no trouble arguing with myself; it's both fun and useful). I ask, why did that offend me? What was the person's intent? Were they really trying to offend, or simply trying to make a point I'm uncomfortable with? Why am I uncomfortable with it? Did it really offend me because it hits too close to home, or because it's so far off the mark? And so on. I need to defend my answers rationally. If it hits too close to home, then I need to re-evaluate my position and arguments. If I think it misses the mark, instead of lashing out, I use reason to argue why it misses the mark. I may do so heatedly, but without ad hominem attacks.

I like a good heated debate, after all. My late best friend Bobby and I founded our long friendship on having opposing political views across the board and a shared love of intense, yet rational and respectful debate--it gets the juices flowing, so to speak.

I don't see friendships like ours much anymore. Too many people can't disagree without becoming hateful. They get personal with ad hominem attacks instead, and once a person does that, the debate is over, and the abuse begins. You can't have a rational debate with someone you have declared evil, or moronic, or crazy. You can't dehumanize someone, then give their arguments a fair hearing. Why is this so hard for so many people to understand? It seems blatantly obvious. Even painfully obvious. Unfortunately, ad hominem attacks have become the basis of political "discourse" these days, and people with opposing political views are seen as evil enemies.

So my question: is the problem that 1. people really are too easily offended, 2. they have lost the ability to tolerate being offended, 3. have forgotten (or never learned) how to rationally argue a topic, 4. have become intellectually lazy, or 5. some combination of the above?

One of the reasons I'm writing this, is I'm also seeing a disturbing trend that has declared emotions as useless or worse. The spread of caullousness. I am afraid of what can happen when emotions are demonized (instead of being considered useful and enriching, adding depth and meaning, so long as reason holds the reigns), and free speech is simultaneously suppressed. That particular combination seems quite the dystopian nightmare. Demonize emotions and suppress free speech. That's a perfect recipe for mass control. Add in curtailing artistic freedom (example from music, which is what I teach--singing and performance skills-- and have been trained in since age 3: everyone is being accused of missappropriation if they perform music influenced by another group, usually another race/ethnicity, but are then--if white--accused of racism if they only perform music by their own race...what the ever living hell am I supposed to sing?!?!?! Mist I stop performing because, well, I'm white and therefore racist no matter what I do?)

Then again, I write fiction and poetry, and am a singer/songwriter by training, so I'm a bit biased in favor of emotion's importance, and have enough of an over-active imagination to imagine some pretty awful stuff. However, at 41, many of the awful things I, and many others, imagined 20 years ago are the norm now, like our near-total lack of privacy, so...

(Sorry this was a bit of a rant. This is the first time in a long time I have experienced a place where it is safe to express any of what I just expressed, so it all just sort of poured out.)

SapphireTrail 2 Apr 16
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7 comments

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0

I can imagine the flack you can get from both sides of the isle. There are few "classic" liberals left. I lost a friend about 5 years ago that was wonderful to debate with. We would try to look at things from both sides.

I think the fact that people are quick to take offense, that the internet does not encourage the nuances that face to face discussions allow. But also that there are so many "sound bites" out there that the tendency to regurgitate or form our own (in an attempt to one up another) is detrimental to real discussions.

0

Does one get extra points for verbosity here jaja

2

the left has become deranged and wants to cancel all free thought you can rant all you want but I will not be silenced

0

I would say some of #2, a lot of #3, and almost universally #4.

1

I appreciate your post. I think the number one problem is that we no longer teach people to think only to react. It is not that emotion is bad but emotion should be the art to reason not the basis of reason. People can no longer articulate why they feel the way they do so they just megaphone their feelings. This gets a rightfully negative reaction because it truly doesn't lead to discussion or a way to consensus. You can't have any input on someone's feeling and if that person can only articulate feelings then the discussion can only go as far as you acknowledging that they feel the way they say they do. That is of course a healthy way to signal the desire to discuss something but it isn't the basis for a discussion its just conditions for an open discussion. I honestly think that when people threw out the idea of ultimate truth and everything became relative what we have been left with is a basic shouting match with the loudest claiming to have won. I completely get your frustration because the truth is no one is winning we are just becoming more and more isolated in our shouting.

2

There's a lot in there. I'll start and just take a point. Do you think the KKK should be sanctioned to speak on campus? Sometimes, we get so caught up in our big global causes we don't ever succinctly define our terms. Surely, there's a line. I don't want to walk into a lecture hall on campus and see white hoods and listen to the hateful rants that come with them. I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to speak, but should they have a legislated RIGHT to speak in churches, for example? There are lines, but we dive behind broad 'free speech' slogans and never get around to defining those lines. Is there nobody campuses shouldn't sanction to speak? If there's even one, you've just set a limitation on free speech.

I may address another point or two, but I'll start with that one.

Bravo..!

We did get around to defining these lines, and we did so a long time ago. Not wanting to see and hear something isn't a reason for censorship. Actually inciting violence is. What is the litmus test? Yelling "fire" in a crowded room when there is no fire. That would cause an actual stampede, where people could (and in such stampedes often do) get seriously injured or killed. We protect ideas. Perspectives. Speech. Up to this point: We do not protect speech saying "go hurt people, go kill people." We do protect even ignorant and hateful speech, and we counter it best by showing why it is inaccurate and deconstructing the ignorant assertions point by point. Why? Because if you ban the ideas, or any discussion of the ideas, it is no longer something that can be looked at and discussed. You don't get rid of the ignorance or hate that way, you make martyrs of the ignorant and hateful. Which actually works out really well for them when they are looking to recruit. They paint themselves as the misinderstood victims who are oppressed, and there you go. You've handed them a great recruitment tool. Conversly, you can allow the speech, then exercise your own free speech and deconstruct their speech point by point, and that is how you defeat them. Calmly. Rationally. Fairly. And without handing them their martyrdom.

And no, churches are different (but nice straw man there) These are religious institutions that are supposed to be protected under the establishment clause of the first ammendment where I am, in the U.S. I meant public, secular universities. Religious universities, like churches and religious private schools, should have their beliefs protected within their own institutions. (You do realize you just argued that free speech might intrude on alreay protected... free speech?)

I might suggest On Liberty by John Stewart Mills, if you want to basically understand where I see the limits of liberty, that being the moment one's rights infringe on another's rights. No one has the right to supress the liberty of others just because they don't want to see or hear something that offends them. Don't go see that racist speaker if you don't want to hear them. Don't read that book if you don't like what it says. But just because you don't want to hear that racist speaker, doesn't mean that speaker has no right to speak. Or that book has no right to be published. Debate them. Argue against everything that they say, but if you don't let them say it, you really can't actually argue against them anyway. You can't have an argument or debate, because you've just closed it down.

@SapphireTrail, what? Churches aren't different. Stick to the college campus, and let's have the conversation there. So, back to being clear and defining our lines. Are you saying the KKK should be sanctioned to speak on public campuses? We should allow them in wearing white hoods, handing out refreshments, promoting hate and division. There's a difference between allowing hate speech and sanctioning hate speech. You get that, right? Have you thought about this? You know, it occurs to me you never see the KKK sanctioned to speak at public universities. Why? Just because we don't talk about the line doesn't mean it's not there. That level of denial is really not useful. It's better we talk about these things. Should the KKK be sanctioned to speak on public university campuses?

@SapphireTrail, so should the KKK be sanctioned to speak on public university campuses?

@chuckpo YES they should. If it is a PUBLIC University (taking Money from the government) then it has no right to ban anyone acting n a peaceful manner, even vile, ignorant, scum. The scum IS PART OF the "public" paying for the University. They don't have to provide protection, a venue, or ANYTHING else, but they cannot prevent them from preaching their ignorance on the campus.

@Psykozen, different context. I actually think I wasn't clear enough. I'm not talking about walking onto public campuses and speaking. I believe they should have that right too. I'm talking about SANCTIONED--including a particular time on a particular day, venue, protection if needed, resources. Speak AT public universities may have been a little clearer. But, now you know. Apologies.

Yes i do i do i believe the only way to change some ones mind is to discuss the whole issure and not just the parts you like or support

@SapphireTrail welcome o voice of reason, glad you found this landing spot. And 5., Or combination of them, with maybe some other mental issues thrown in 🙂

0

I do like your post and understand. It's #5, 3+4 plus others. In late '60s I was a little flower child being with "hippies" so in '80s heard the same as you say. The "times they are a'changing". I find most don't explain their opinions or rules, the "do as I say, not as I do" so the new into the world of real life don't understand, they were never educated on how to learn. We still have the same as always, some cause a problem to solve the problem and be a hero for more power and control, not supporting and letting those with a problem solve it themselves. I've asked some that act the way of what you stated, are offended with everything but have no idea how to solve. I've also been in areas where the media and officials say a problem, or attitude, but talk with people who also wonder, don't see the problem either. I try not to offend, when someone is bothered I asked why and how to solve without arguing leading to more arguing. I'm glad for your post. Hope more read it and think first. When someone gets offended, I ask why, then ask a better way so they think and I learn. Everyone complains about cost, money and banks. I ask, how do you replace money, it's nothing, but some are so greedy they want it all. How do you replace it? When some are excited because the are offended, ask why and how to solve without causing a problem for others, then it doesn't look that offensive to most. I ask who is telling you they're offended and why?

I believe if you don't work you should not be fed or supported by others who do. I am not talking about the injured or old when i say this

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