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The police.
The police state.
Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
It has also been said “Society cannot exist without law. Law is the bond of society: that which makes it, that which preserves it and keeps it together.’ (Jo. P. Bradley)
The motto of most American police departments is “To Protect and to serve”
Many, especially in minority communities, often say it should be “to punish and enslave”
Do police abuse their authority? Sometimes. To claim otherwise would be dishonest.
Do police protect and serve the community? Most assuredly. And thank God for that indeed.
But my question is this: If we in fact live under the rule of law and the police are the enforcement arm of those laws how we can make certain that those who serve serve us, and not a ruling class?
The criminal justice system is broken. We have given up far too much freedom for far too little safety. When those charged with protecting us can take a life and need say little more than “I thought my life was in danger”, regardless of facts proving otherwise, and face no consequence, we border on totalitarianism.
Does that mean that every police officer that draws his weapon is a cold-blooded killer? Of course not. Almost all police involved shootings are justified. The question is, justified by who?
I am not a criminal, I am a white upper middle class professional. I am not a SJW/BLM cop hating fool. I respect the law. At least to the degree it doesn’t impinge upon my personal freedoms.
But ask yourself, when a police officer pulls behind you, do you feel protected or paranoid? Let’s hear what you got to say IDW. Tell what you think! Tell me why I’m wrong or not! "Eclectic Encyclopedia " Group

Boardwine 8 Apr 23
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15 comments

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0

From a UK perspective, clearly massive difference re firearm threat etc however UK approach is more focused on reducing threat in relation to all involved included potential 'offenders'. Temporary measured containment and even retreat where appropriate is used to reduce threat, calm situations, encourage dialogue etc Ending a situation without anyone getting hurt is the priority.
Interesting legislation is Uk Public order act which has been used successfully for many years, individuals being 'offensive' can be warned to stop and if they don't, can be arrested. I'm always amazed about how in US officers can be insulted in public with no recourse?

1

Paranoid. I don’t trust authority. I am a law-abiding citizen, but I don’t talk without my attorney. I used to have more trust, but I have seen too much in my life to trust blindly again. Some people are morally excellent, and some folks will always abuse their authority. Most people that abuse their authority don’t even realize that they are doing it… And that is the danger of authority. Oddly, my father was a policeman.

1

A number of those Policemen these days are of the 'Self Serve' variety.

I live in Maryland. The city of Baltimore has one of the most corrupt police forces in America. They just sentenced almost all of the "Gun Trace Task Force" to federal prison for everything from selling guns and drugs to extortion and robbery.

@Boardwine That's pretty scary.

@jwhitten oh yeah.....it's crazy. I won't even take my family to the city anymore. It's a shame too. Lots of cool bars and restaurants. The Inner Harbor is nice. Many old funky neighborhoods with quirky stuff but just not worth the trouble

3

I would refer you to two court cases. Warren vs. DC, DeShaney vs Winnebago County. The Supreme Court has held that the police are there to protect society. Not the individual. When the police are behind me, I am not paranoid. If I'm stopped, I put both hands up on my steering wheel palms up. When the officer asks me for my insurance and license, I calmly tell them that I am a concealed carry holder and I am going to reach into my glove compartment to pull out my insurance card. Upon his agreement I do so. Then I tell him I will reach into my pocket and produce my driver's license. The police have a very difficult job, and not all police are good people. All I can do is show them a modicum of respect, and comply, within my rights to their questions. Beyond that, they will be disappointed because I will not answer their questions.

4

Police like all jobs/professions are made up of humans. Some are good , some are bad, most are just average people doing their job. I would say most are people from the town/ city they work in and hold the values of that area.This can be both good and bad. But for the most part they are your neighbors.

1

For the most part police serve their communities. While detaining those who refuse to follow the law of the land. Without laws there is chaos

1

That’s a pretty intense set of questions, I’d break that down into different threads for better reflection. As far as I can tell it’s certainly subjective in man respects and situational. I’d say all Government entities abuse their power to some degree, I don’t think that can be disputed, rather to what degree we as a society should allow and under what circumstances should it be allowed if even at all. It’s a good set of questions, I’d just repost them more succinctly on an individual basis for better feedback.

I’m trying to appeal to the masses here!!!?. I myself would sacrifice all safety for freedom. Better to die a free man, unprotected, than live long and prosperous as a slave. The “State” is an unreasonable bargain. But I opine from the luxury of upper middle class America.... so what the hell do I know?

@Boardwine That’s just the spirit of liberty in your veins. That spirit doesn’t see color or class, it’s just inherent in nature and our evolutionary biology. I agree to some extent, but I’m also very analytical about everything. I have to really break it down to its root cause before really making a decision.

2

In Chicago, I believe that the culture of the police and their union is fundamentally corrupt. My views have been shaped by the work of a journalism group called The Invisible Institute:

Citizens Police Data Project [cpdp.co]
The Code of Silence series on The Intercept [theintercept.com]
The Chicago Police Files series on The Intecept (particularly part 7 on the current chief of police) [theintercept.com]

2

Oh Lord, that picture should probably be my avatar. I should make a poll to find out who all thinks I should shut up and get to the point...I was born with the wordiness disability...errr,...alternatively abled.

Oooooh, really good op, packed full of discussion fodder. Touche'!

  1. When does law cross over from protecting and serving to suffocating liberty and controlling the citizenry? Seatbelt law anyone? Criminalizing drugs? Wonder how many examples we could come up with...

  2. 'Cops' are not a hive--just like no group is. There are individuals, so personalities will inevitably vary. Cops as a group are an interesting dilemma for us. Are they the local enforcement of thought crime, or will they side with us against the ruling class if there was ever a conflict? Hard to know, but worth some time thinking about it.

  3. I'm hesitant to remove from the police the freedom to err. They're human--not machines. Mistakes are inevitable. Those guys never know what's coming at them. Do you want to be the one walking up to cars out on the road? Very dangerous situation. We should probably rethink how we approach some of our enforcement. Those guys are too often targets. So many things can escalate a situation--none faster than flat out not knowing what to expect. If you're not on your guard, you can be dead. If you are on guard, you risk shooting someone by mistake. It's not a good situation. Maybe we can think of a better way.

@chuckpo excellent points all!!! I love that people here are willing to take a statement/point and run with it.

2

I was going to try to explain this and the judges quote below, but opted to search for the case and this article popped up first, case included.

"fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen."

[firearmsandliberty.com]

1

Most assuredly, people feel paranoid around police officers. How often do you experience people on the highway, sowing down when they see someone pulled over, in fear they’ll be next? Years ago, I was attending a training seminar for performing Air Force 1st Sergeant duty. The Base Area Defense Counsel made a statement that sticks with me to this day. “Nobody has done nothing wrong.” Basically, our laws are so intricate and arcane, you can never be quite sure if something you consider an innocent act, isn’t covered under some form of law, regulation, or ordinance, making it a misdemeanor offense.
Most people have forgotten, or have had the notion slowly expunged through popular media, that the police work for us. We, as citizens, hold the power and authority, they’ve only had it delegated to them. This goes for political and bureaucratic office holders also.
Look, police officers are doing a hard job that gets little respect at times. I get it. They’re often stuck between doing a good job and appeasing their superiors so they can keep their job. Sadly, our LE agencies have become the strong arm of political elites who are bent on fixing perceived social ills over just doing their jobs within the confines of our national and state charters.

EXACTLY!!!!Thank you!! I appreciate and respect officers of the law. I also distrust and fear them. Humans with power are dangerous because power corrupts. Do they protect and serve us or the lawmakers? And it’s a short trip from protector to prison guard.

0
  1. Eric Bolling recently had an episode where he did police training. He knew that use of force would be required in each scenario but was bumbling quite a bit in his reaction to the many situations that could come up in a situation. Use the gun, use the zapper, get behind cover, watch out for bystanders, etc... Wish I could provide a link. Very informative.
  2. Roger Stone's on site arrest by a swat team was justified under the "suspect might destroy documents" argument. That argument is too broad and the use of a swat team and no-knock warrants needs to be dialed back.
  3. This is funny and should provide more appreciation for what cops have to deal with -

I seen that video. I completely understand that it’s a difficult and often thankless job. And again I am in no way a “cop hater”. But I am concerned about abuse of authority and even more concerned but the prevalence of the “thin blue line” worshipping of my fellow right leaning citizens. Authority must be both respected and feared by all those that love liberty above all else’s

@Boardwine I understand. This video with the cop playing Simon Says infuriates me. Not sure how this was not manslaughter.

@RobBlair it was murder. And this illustrates a major problem. This man should, and in a just society would, be in prison. Badge be damned.

3

If you have an interaction with law enforcement and you treat them like you would want to be treated if the roles were reversed, regardless of your race, you don’t have a thing to worry about.
With that being said there ARE cops out there that go above and beyond and SHOULD and DO get held accountable for issuing their own justice.

2

Can't say that I feel paranoid when an officer of law enforcement pulls up behind me. It is usually due to my behavior. Perhaps I have not maintained the condition of my vehicle, such as a burned out tail light. Perhaps I did not keep track of my speed and was driving too fast. That is the way most stops for traffic infractions go. I would certainly not feel protected by such a stop, why should I? Since I drive an older vehicle, usually one that is about twenty years old or more then I attract a certain amount of attention, usually for safety concerns over the condition of my vehicle. That is to be expected since I am not the norm in automobile ownership.

Funny, for a very short period of my life I drove a commercial delivery truck.

When the owner of the company I was working for showed it to me on my first day he said "look, this truck is brand new. You are going to have to stop at every DOT checkpoint from now on. Even though it is brand new any inspector worth his weight will be able to find at least a dozen reasons to hold you overnight if they want to. It is your reaction to them when you pull onto the scale that will determine whether or not you are going to spend the night with your family or alone in the sleeper cab of this truck."

I took his words to heart and for most of the times it was inspected the most I got was "hey when you get back you might want to have this looked at". I saw plenty of other drivers get the real beat down and one literally get beat down. It was all about respect, if i showed them respect I got it back.

Even had one officer tell me that he hated finding things because of the amount of paperwork that had to be done.

2

I carry a pocket constitution and the bill of right's with me. I have all the proof of this in my phone and sent it to very trusted limited family. If I get pulled over I know my rights, I wait for the asking of information and give it to the officer with the constitution visible any officer on the right side of the law understands, any that is not body language tells a lot. My right's kick in heavy at that point.

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