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Is saying "Green Book" was quite good racist?

owen21stcentury 4 Mar 28
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1

If you’re actually concerned with censoring your own speech about it, I would guess that you’re okay with that sort of thought process.
I don’t know how you got that way but ...
Were someone to tell me that I was “racist” because I thought ANY Book was good, I’d tell them ... using your vernacular to; “Sod Off” I might then elaborate on the concept that their opinion means less than nothing to me ... as would that person themselves.

I find it interesting that miscellaneous people think that, because they exist, I should give a Flying F*k about their existence ... never mind their opinions.
I find it interesting that other people readily buy into that thought process.
Personally, if I don’t “know” a person, the fact that they exist or not ... or whether they continue to do so ... means absolutely nothing to me.

Why DO you care what others think about what you think?
Is that a disease?

She was someone I respected, someone I've known for almost 20 years so when someone who knows you well accuses you of being racist out of the blue.....over me liking a film....I think it's fair to ask am I the problem? And also understand where they are coming from. Sadly I think she is the problem and I still think pbuck has been the closest to "understanding" where my friend was coming from. And I think there's a lot of people out there who think like her, and that should worry us all.

@owen21stcentury
There’s a lot of people that I “respect” for some things but don’t care at all about them in other things. I have never extended anyone “blanket” respect to anyone. I know several truly brilliant people who I absolutely wouldn’t trust with a wrench (spanner) under the hood (bonnet) of my car ...
From your description, she IS the problem ... but YOU seem to have given HER the power to make you question yourself ... BAD IDEA.
Well, I suppose you might have a point about “...should worry us all.” Except “worry” gets you nowhere ... there are things that can be fixed ... things that can’t be fixed ... and things that will work themselves out. To spend any time “worrying” is a waste of time, energy and assets.

1

I liked Green book a lot. I don't really care what anyone thinks. My emotions watching a movie are mine alone.

3

Depends. If you are "white" its racist. Otherwise not.
Realize that anything you do as a "white" is both racist and privileged.

Perhaps you're right. I probably should have stated from the outset in this post that I'm a British middle class (born working class) white agnostic Jew....ish (Ashkenazi) male whose married to a white middle upper class disabled woman in her thirties with a strong pan Norwegian/British church of England background. I'm 5 foot 9, have friends and family from varying backgrounds, and I believe the individual is sovereign and is the sum of ALL parts, not just their skin colour, gender, religion, etc

Not sure if it's relevant but my friend is white British female in her thirties, single, left wing feminist. Says things like "Trans women are women", the "gender pay gap is proof of female persecution in a male patriarchy" and has an obsession with black centric/led American tv shows and films like "Insecure", "Atlanta" anything by Jordan Peele, etc

2

I was having a lovely day out with a friend and then things turned weirdly toxic out of nowhere.

In a nutshell I said Green Book was quite good.

My "friend" then said its a film that suffers from "white saviour" narration and behind the scenes Don Shirley's family wasnt consulted.

I then said I take the film at face value and unless something "really bad" comes out regarding behind the scenes (ie Polanski, Michael Jackson, Bryan Singer, Harvey Weinstein, Kevin Spacey, etc) then I will continue to take that film at face value. In other words I felt the problems highlighted wasn't enough to demonize my enjoyment of the "quite well made/acted" film.

She then highlighted the films inaccuracies.

I then highlighted Blakkklansman's inacurracies and this really wound her up. Flip Zimmerman (Jewish police officer) who infiltrated the clan in the film wasn't even Jewish in real life and his Jewishness is central to Flip's (played by Adam Driver) conflict when infiltrating the clan.

She then said I'm conflating and comparing an innacurate real life Jewish character in a true story to an innacurate black character in another true story and that "it's sad I see the world that way".

I said they're the same issue but she's saying Green Book is worse because Don Shirley is black! Plus Blackkklansmen is directed by Spike Lee whose black so he's allowed more kudos for any innacurate narration in his story.

And then I had the audacity to mention Tony Lip in Green Book wasn't simply white but "Italian American". This made her lose her temper. She kept reducing the argument to black vs white!

While I acknowledged "White" Italian and "white" Jew, I insisted there's more to these characters than the colour of their skin.

And then she accused me of being part of "institutional" racism because I view films through a white priveliged lens.

I then said "and when was the last time you saw a Jamaican/African film"

She said we're talking about Hollywood.

And I reiterated audiences can't be aware of every behind the scenes shenanigans of every film ever made.

I used the French film "The Intouchables" as an example. Basically it's a true story of a wealthy white quadriplegic man who befriends his black carer. It's a heartwarming buddy film that's one of the highest grossing French films of all time.

In the end you find out the REAL carer is Abdel Sellou, a French Algerian arab, so not black.

I then said, while that dampened my enjoyment of the film a little bit (the REAL life Phillipe and Abdel's picture is at the end of the movie) it still wasn't enough to take away my enjoyment from the film, and I simply don't see it as "Uncle Tom racism" or view Omar Sy's character as a "Magical Negro", I view him as a great actor whose "presence" made the character jump off the screen.

Basically she outright called me racist for not putting enough emphasis on the issues she raised on Green Book, and I said mainstream audiences aren't that interested, as proven when I highlighted Blackkklansman where racism is central to the narrative and had similar "accuracy" problems, but because one had a black director and one had a white director, she is clearly picking and choosing which film does racism "right" and which film does racism narrative "wrong".

Also Green Book was only quite good and a bit of a rehash on the Driving Miss Daisy story.

But she shouted at me in the middle of London accusing me of being complicit in the "inadvertent" racism enforced on black people in "white" dominated society.

She then said I need to be less racist.

I said "same with you"

Wow, I would unfriend a beast like her in a minute...messing with my equilibrium like that. I really enjoyed Green book.

@Puffykins I'm seriously considering it. If someone of relative intelligence (my friend is very well read) calls me a racist then I'm willing to listen to them and see if they have a point because obviously I try and do my best to judge people on their individuality WITHIN the matrix of whatever factors formed their identity, which can include class, country, town, religion, race, gender, upbringing, sexuality, etc. If someone calls out a flaw in my attitude then I'm willing to listen and see if I can improve as someone who wants a harmonious world.

What I can't quite fathom is what it is that made me racist through her lens of the world? I think pbuck has the best answer so far, in that she sees me as a "privileged white male" who is taking my "responsibility" for granted, and thus I live in a "white" (via Judaism) bubble where race relations are supposedly hunky dory now, but was bad in the old days (wiggish).

Of course that's a complete misrepresentation of who I am and I'm no fool, I understand racism in all its forms, which is why I was disturbed by her brutal accusations against me. Quite simply I thought Green Book was a pretty good film about an unlikely friendship where people can change the world in small but powerful ways. She sees it as a film about racism, for whites by whites.

I genuinly believe people like her are part of the problem.

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