slug.com slug.com

23 11

How do we create a voice that isn't going to be drowned by hate?

I struggle with saying anything controversial. So often I see others with powerful voices getting treated poorly because they make others uncomfortable. I work in a service industry. Social media is powerful. That makes me afraid and that's a terrible place to be. I have idea. I have a voice. I use neither. I don't think I'm alone.
What do we do? How do we change this (both in a global way, but also in a smaller community oriented way)?

wanttothink 4 Apr 12
Share

Be part of the movement!

Welcome to the community for those who value free speech, evidence and civil discourse.

Create your free account

23 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

10

Well, most of us don't think quite as fast on our feet as Ben Shapiro, but I find that the progressive left is only trying to confuse, rather than understand, so arguments and facts are irrelevant. The only way they can justify their position is to shut down discussion and debate with some politically correct-type response, like; the scientific consensus is blah,blah blah..or studies show blah, blah, blah. I can't hear you..... La, la, la, la, la....

All that is necessary to understand the progressive view is that they are not particularly fond of "people" and/or what they do. They wish to save the planet and animals and rivers and forests, and feign empathy for what they consider the poverty stricken. As long as they can appear morally superior they are happy or at least feel their resentment and hate are fully justified.

The saving grace lies in the fact that progressives really don't understand each other, let alone a dissenting view, and will eventually lose any sense of cohesion as a collective. Feminists don't like trans-genders, Islam doesn't like the LGBT's, Black lives matter doesn't like Uncle Tom's - no matter how Black they are - or white anything. Environmentalists don't like Unions or blue collar workers that want jobs - that means development. And on and on....

So to answer your question of how to create a voice that doesn't get drowned out by hate, avoid addressing their claim of victim status for whatever victim group they are either a member of or support. Remember, feminists are victims or they wouldn't be feminists. The planet is a victim, animals are victims, trees are victims. Anyone that doesn't support victims is obviously, an oppressor, automatically a member of the alt-right and a Nazi. Also, distinguish between a real victim and the progressive's manufactured victim. People, like veterans that have sacrificed life and limb for the country are not acceptable victims to support. They belong on the oppressor side of the fence. John Kerry has tried to point that out all of his political career. It's hard to manufacture state sanctioned victim status out of veterans, after all a majority of them are trying to avoid any victim label and the left just can't make it stick to them.

I mentioned state sanctioned victim status. These are the progressive left's labels that have been recognized by authority. Criticism of them is not possible without being banned on media like Farcebook. It is very brave to attack those that create, define and support the label. Candace Owens comes to mind. She is fiercely trying to lift that label off the Black community. Democrats and community organizers funded by them are trying to hold it on there. If you are not as fast as Candace Owens is on her feet and are a simple-minded peasant, such as myself that would be sliced to pieces on the front lines, avoid direct confrontation, just clap.

Of course, all of this is identity politics and born out of Cultural Marxism. The proletariat was the original victim group and the goal is always purported to be the same for all victim groups - equality.

Well.. That's it for me right now. Recognize the origin, it is a Marxist plank to create a victim class and divide people. There is some truth in it that there are victims, we have all been victims of something or someone in our lives. The thing is to get up and carry on without the weight of that label. Victims worry about payback, reparations, punishment. They carry around resentment and hate. They are not all that concerned about equality unless it means "getting even". Look at it from that point of view and I hope you have an easier time of it.

Damn I wish I had something stronger than a simple 'like' to give you. That was a really good comment.

One thing I have disagree on. Not really a disagreement but an additional facet you may not have taken into account.

You said:
The saving grace lies in the fact that progressives really don't understand each other, let alone a dissenting view, and will eventually lose any sense of cohesion as a collective. Feminists don't like trans-genders, Islam doesn't like the LGBT's, Black lives matter doesn't like Uncle Tom's - no matter how Black they are - or white anything. Environmentalists don't like Unions or blue collar workers that want jobs - that means development. And on and on...."

There is an overriding factor that gives them the cohesion to act in unison. That would be access to the public treasury and the power to control it. That is why you don't see union construction workers break ranks when environmentalist wacko's stop their projects like oil pipelines. Even when they are robbed of tier jobs they don't break ranks with the Democratic party. The reason is simple. Access to the public treasury is more important. That is where the really big money is and it is the love of money, easy money, other folks money. That's the root of all evil.

@DanMartinovich I agree with that conclusion, it is what gives them cohesion. Time is not their friend and also, any policy that may be perceived to benefit one over another introduces some friction. They aren't natural or trustworthy alliances. An historical example occurred in August 1939 when Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union surprised the world by signing the German-Soviet Nonaggression Pact, in which the two countries agreed to take no military action against each other for the next 10 years. We know what occurred after. Germany attacked Russia and Stalin signed on with the Allies.

@FrankZeleniuk What I mean though is the money they get from the public treasury. Our money, laundered to them through the Democratic party. Those amounts they get from government ar far greater than the amounts they would have gotten from a few private sector projects that other special interests in the party stopped. So they will never disintegration as a party along special interests lines unless the money gets cut off.

6

I have a leftist brother whom I love dearly. We try to avoid politics and difficult social issues but they do come up. We do discuss them and give each other a chance to explain our views. I am amazed at how ill informed he often is. So many leftist talking points and much more feelings than facts. I calmly explain myself and he will often say that he needs to confirm the facts which I use to support my views. Nobody really convinces anyone of anything but we remain brothers and friends. You never know, perhaps I give him food for thought.

Sometimes just being able to converse and share might be worth it, even without winning people over to our sides? Just keeping communication open...

I'm also dealing with a liberal sibling who demands "proof" and when I go to the trouble of doing his homework for him, it gets ignored as he attacks the next thing he disagrees with. Now I am a Christian and try not to be a bad example, but the time for me being just done with trying to reason is getting closer. I never learned how to debate, wish I had in high school. I wonder if it's even taught anymore. Doesn't seem like it, judging how many people are just going on feelings rather than fact.

6

Such an interesting conversation. I think a lot of people have made good comments. I guess my own contribution would be from counseling couples. Couples come in when they're stuck and don't know what else to do. In a lot of ways, the country is in a really similar place. The first thing a counselor would do is establish a relationship with each partner, create safety in the room and hold that safety. The content isn't really always important, but reactivity is generally high. Deeper things are going on between the couple than the content. Usually, fear and the way we assign meaning to what others say are our big downfalls. Anyway, the idea is to get people away from the content and talking about the primary emotions in a way that allows each partner to see the other cares and is reacting to their own primary emotion. The process leads partners to rediscover each other emotionally to where they can start learning how to build that safety into their own conversations outside of counseling.

SO, I'd hypothesize something like that may have some success IF both sides value the relationship to do the work. I have had a hard time finding people on the left that want reconciliation. Most would tell you straight out they want a divorce. That doesn't leave much space to heal the injuries that have occurred between the two sides. But, I can't think of a more sensible approach.

Man, that's two incredibly insightful comments in a row. This is a good thread!

6

Well you're right there is quite a bit of mob injustice these days. So you do have to be careful.
Always consider your livelihood before choosing a battle.
Break your arguements into Factual and perspective based arguments. Two separate arguments may be beneficial.
Engage locally with friends, and family.
When voicing your idea's it's not about winning it's about sparking growth.
As Well you could easily reach a degree of anonymity with creating a website to voice your ideas.
Which is also reasonably inexpensive.

This is really reasonable, thanks so much for sharing πŸ™‚

6

This is like "If you never ask, the answer is no."

Speak up. Let people be uncomfortable. Correct yourself when you are wrong. You are an important part of society.

I really like your answer! Thank you!

5

By speaking in unison. It's ok to be afraid but we have to overcome this. They are hoping that fear will silence us. WE MUST RESIST.

I think part of the problem is we can't always do that. Sometimes a "supporting" view does so in a way you don't agree with and you get lumped in with a "they".

5

Speak the truth in love.

4

By smiling and accepting-- tolerating each other a whole lot more.

Healthy I think!

4

I have heard the phrase; "A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in baskets of silver", but how do we accomplish that? If your goal is to engage others in a positive and meaningful way then I humbly submit that you focus on the following ideas. Learn how to speak in public, study the art of listening, learn about conflict resolution/negotiation, and pick up some sales skills.

I don't know where you stand on issues of faith or religion however I have found much wisdom in the bible around dealing with others and myself...if you have had negative experiences with the church I am right there with you...ignore the foolish and just stick with the text they should have read.

The art of listening is a solid skill, something I absolutely need to work on, thank you!

@wanttothink I have read through and am going through again a book titled "Crucial Conversations", "Just Listen", "Power Listening", and others around the topic of listening. There are many others I would add to my reading list on the subject but that is a good start πŸ™‚

3

Speak the truth, there are many that agree with truth. As long as you have based your views on facts and not feelings and can articulate your beliefs on why you agree or disagree with the facts you will be fine, unless or until the left takes over and becomes a tyranny. The left rarely can justify their views on facts, they rely on lies and misinformation for the most part.

3

Honestly,..I don't think there will ever be a nonconfrontational debate on hate. Since the dawn of time, there has always been a deep seated source of hate. And to be in America and have the freedom to be who you wanna be, that sometimes pisses people off. My struggle,..acceptance. I'm a Trump supporting American, I've lost lifelong friends over this, but guess what? True people won't hide behind hate.

Interesting perspective! Hate seems to be primal, but nowadays, so irrational! It's like the emotion has no purpose (like protection) but still functions and needs an out.

@wanttothink They hate because they believe without a doubt that they are morally superior. From that perspective anyone who disagrees with them is not only evil but must be destroyed, jobs, reputations at the least. Beatings and murder at worst.

3

Lots of good input here. Props for positivity and support by all.
I personally don’t argue with a fool. I realize this is limiting. But if you even try to civilly debate a topic with a fool, it just all turns to foolishness.
Having said that, we do need to stand together in order to have a voice to make change in our government and communities.
Ie. don’t bother arguing with your neighbor.. but call your local politicians.

I like that!

3

Much of how we respond relies on our perspective. I tend to focus on language so that leads me to ask a lot of questions when interacting, to seek clarification. If i can manage to do that respectfully depending on the topic & their take on it, it tends to put them at ease & maintains a cordial atmosphere.

Another benefit is you can tell by questions just how well thought out their position is & the strength of their convictions. If my intention is good conversation it works well. If my intention is to change their mind (an intention i have to consciously restrain), i tend to ask the wrong questions & the whole thing is awkward.

Politics tends to obviously be very personal & passionate. If i can remember that the other person likely means well, as i do, than the overall intention becomes to effectively communicate & anyone who excells in sales will tell ya, questions are the best method of acheiving that. BTW, i suck at sales but the practice works.

As for creating a voice that won't be met with hate, we can only speak clearly. The rest is up to them.

I like the idea of speaking clearly. I find that difficult for many because it includes the understanding of what others are hearing.

@wanttothink agreed...i think.

2

I think we change more minds when our words and our actions make a stark contrast to the hate and violence coming from the left. If we fight hate with hate it gets us nowhere. Anyone standing on the sidelines will just walk away from both sides. The truth will win out. Just always speak the truth even if it hurts. It maybe hard to swallow sometimes but it always comes out.

2

I recommend you look into what Jordan Peterson has to say on this very topic.

Thanks I'll try to find it!

2

Great question. I'm interested in the answers

2

honestly, i hate to say it, but echo chamber yourself if you can't stand the hate. its only going to get worse if you let it upset you. and actually, its totally ok if you just don't wanna hear other opinions, but if you try to silence them, that, imo, is the truest of evil

2

Don't be a coward!

1

This was both a mix of advice I had picked up from a counselor I was seeing and some stuff from JBP. As well as a couple people I know who I actually admired who could just flatly say what they think and not care about the consequences. I will explain:

All you can do in your life is speak your peace and let the reaction of others play out as it may. I had lived a lot of my life living a kind of 'lie' because I wasn't being honest with what I really thought. I was always so busy censoring my own speech ever since I was young because I was trying to control and moderate everyone's behaviour around me. It was exhausting.

When I started following JBP and others and started to get help for my own anxiety and depression, it all started to click why I was so upset about things in my own life. I was creating an environment around myself that just wasn't honest or true. I wasn't actually saying things that were really on my mind because I didn't want to deal with people's emotional reactions or deal with the hassle of trying to explain myself. Since I was young, I found myself constantly not really fitting with the "herd" so to speak. I don't like the term contrarian as I don't feel that's accurate but I suppose that's what people would call me. Just simply because I refuse to agree with anything just for the sake of the "group". I'm more concerned with the actual truth of the matter than following a herd of people off a cliff.

Anyway, when it really clicked is when I saw a couple really flawed individuals I know who were into hard drugs at some parties arguing things out with others around them. I was awe struck by one guy as he just stood there defending his stance and simply repeating himself "that's okay, you can be offended, this is just how I think bud". He just was flatly disagreeing with political correctness and feminism and was arguing with these other guys who were claiming to be feminists and he was calling them out on it. And he was outnumbered but he didn't care. Maybe he was too dumb to realize it, maybe he didn't care because he was always drunk or high, but I couldn't help but admire him. "I" wanted to be like him. I wanted to not care and just speak my mind and go about my day. Ya, people were mad at him but he just brushed it off and didn't lose sleep over it. I was totally envious of him.

So I think that's the biggest take away is that at some point we do need to just flatly say how we feel/think and let it out into the world. There are going to be people who disagree with us. There are going to be people who scream and yell at us or even threaten us to shut up "or else". But at some point some of us just need to speak freely and get our honest thoughts out or else we're just going to create an environment that isn't real and is a lie. People aren't going to know who we really are and we won't know how to meet people who are more like us or think like us. I had a lot of people around me that I felt I couldn't honestly talk to or be completely open with.

I am happy to say that I now have met a girl who I can speak really honestly with and I have never had that before. We disagree on some stuff but we disagree well and don't really fight. We're just able to honestly express how we feel on the issue and why. I joined the IDW to also speak freely and maybe disagree on some points with others here, but at least it gives me a chance to find like-minded people.

The more we just openly state what we think, the more opportunity we give ourselves to learn and to let others see who we really are.

I think its also more important than ever now for us to be brave and be like that crazy flawed friend I have who's into drugs but at least can speak his mind. Ya its annoying and sometimes scary to be the odd voice out in the crowd, but someone has to do it. At the end of the day though, most of these politically correct people following social media headlines and patting themselves on the back are mostly just going to yell and scream and go home in a huff. Let them lose sleep on these things, neither you nor me need to lose sleep on them.

All you can really control is yourself and at least if you risk being honest with those around you it gives the chance for a couple people in the crowd who might be similar to find you. And really, isn't it better to risk other people's ire and get 1 or 2 really close relationships out of it rather than 50 fakes ones?

Hope that helps. πŸ™‚

1

Regardless of our positions we MUST expect disagreement, opposition and yes even hate. It will never go away. What matters is our not being silent. If you are on a mid sized, large sized or small web platform having it out with some overly snarky emotive dolts but making your point, pointing out the fallacy of their logic and the irrelevance of their feelings and fragile little emotions and you get swarmed by haters.....you are winning BIG TIME. Many will be following the exchanges. They will see your solid points, they will give thought to your solutions they will have scorn for the ankle biting small minded trolls desperate effort to silence you.

In day to day real life exchanges the same strategy remains valid but you must be careful. Your circumstance and safety must be considered. Just remember that Globalism is just another word for Elitist Control....a modern Dictatorship of the Proletariat.....technocratic billionaires who want the mantle of Stalin...so they may give you the wage, education, opportunity, food, watter, shelter, family that they are convinced you deserve and NOT ONE THING MORE.

All we see arrayed against us connects to them. Drug Trade, Sex Trade, Slave Trade, College Socialist, Antifa, the DNC, 45% of the RNC, one big net with huge holes attempting to drag us into a brave new world where our betters treat us better that we treat ourselves until they don't. Stand up! Learn to cut through their foolish blather and leave a trail others can follow to sane rational thoughts and deeds!

1

I work with the public and it can be very difficult a few rules i follow. Don't start a political conversation on break, nod and smile when a customer is talking politics to you they will think your working but agreeing, and if you do have time and want to say something i alway's say things like i respectfully disagree or i see your point, as i can see this side, on abortion i just say did you know the is a real time Abortion clock counter. Your not avoiding your deverting to a less heated conversation.

0

@wanttothink, In a word, abolish.

Abolish Public Indoctrination Day Care Centers.

Abolish any tax that takes from us the Fruits of Our Labor and property.

In short, abolish any law that is in direct conflict of what it means to be free.

In more words and no so short:
Keep in mind; freedom means freedom from the government. That is the essence of what it means to be free and always has been defined as such.

Any other definition of freedom is a perversion of the word and a direct threat to the very concept of being free.

So, if you can work the question, "Define freedom?" into the conversation, I use it at the onset, as it allows me to do many things.

Primarily, and immediately, understanding the individual's intelligence level, determining if what they are relying on as intelligence is nothing more than propagandized consumption.

Why does this matter? Because it allows us to point out at the onset, their misunderstanding of the concept of being free, and what it truly means.

Be advised, I have encountered people who are okay being chattel slaves. So, be prepared for the thoroughly indoctrinated never being able to grasp anything that the State didn't dictate to them.

My mother used to warn me of the blissfully ignorant being more dangerous than an angry mob or, at the very least, culpable of the injustices of the collective.

It is as if Reality did a Drive-by of these people and missed.

0

Simple. My parents taught me to never discuss politics or religion outside if your home or trusted family members. Keep work professional at all times. You are not paid to speak your mind. It is not your fault, seems no one told you.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:30109
Slug does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.