That reminds of Jordan Pererson's concept of God. He is how we personify our conception of truth. In that sense, I do believe truth comes from him, because it is only by God that we understand truth. We rely on him for it. But I also believe in God in the literal sense. And in that more literal sense, and this is stretching my thinking so I'm open to not accepting this idea, but God would likewise need a frame of reference to conceptualize truth... thus the LDS idea of Gods upon Gods stretching across eternity.

Again, many call Mormons crazy for believing something like that, but to me it's a more palitable than some mysterious, a-morphis blob that for some reason knows everything.

@jnaatjes Most religions are polytheist but they don't attempt to change or even claim their theism is the correct interpretation of the only monotheistic religion Judea-Christianity. Although it would be fair to argue Christianity does the same thing expanding the Parthenon of "Gods" from the God of the Old Testament to include his child, Jesus and the Holy Ghost.

@urso I think perhaps you meant a pantheon of Gods. But yes, you could even go further and call all the saints sub-gods the way Hindu has Hrisha and then 33 million sub-gods, or something like that.

@jnaatjes The younger me might have taken a swipe at 'crazy Mormons' but as I get older I realize we've all got our crazy beliefs but what's more important are one's actions and Mormons are some of the nicest people I've ever met, always friendly, never pushy, great families, easy to work with... To me those qualities count for far more than whatever I might think of your magic underwear! (Sorry, I guess even the older me can't resist taking a cheap shot! I watch too much South Park!)

@KrustyG that's refreshing to hear. We're all just trying our best to make sense of this crazy world we're living in, so I don't get why everyone has to be so up tight about religious differences. I believe strongly in my own faith, but so long as someone else's moves them away from nihilism and toward a meaningful life, I think it's of God.

@KrustyG and the same thing applies even if God isn't at the center of their belief. My view is that God is still influencing them.

Yes I agree with you. I do believe that concept. Mainstream Christians murdered Joseph Smith, partly because he taught things like this. But to me it makes more sense. It gives a purpose to our existence and to God's. Maybe I shouldn't question why all this is happening, but I want to believe there's answers.

I'm LDS, so you might not want me to get into that haha...

Suffice it to say, Joseph Smith taught this controversial idea:

"As man is now, God once was. And as God now is, man may become."

This implies an eternal progression of heavenly fathers creating and exhalting their children... happening again and again into eternity... which I personally think of as more like a circle than a line, but I don't know quite how to make sense of that.

Maybe that sounds crazy and blasphemous. But it's not totally out of line with scripture. Paul taught the Romans that we are children of God... "And if children, then heirs; ???heirs? of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we ???suffer? with ?him,? that we may be also glorified together" (Romans 8:17). And Christ taught, referring to Psalms, "Ye are gods" when the Pharisees were accusing him of blasphemy.

@jnaatjes God is Christ, and Micheal is in training

@urso got me there haha

So do you think God is a literal being, or are you saying the idea of God is simply how humans have personified truth?

@jnaatjes I tend towards the latter.
Or something like that.

I am not convinced of god being an intelligent being of some sort

How do you feel about Jordan Peterson's views on God? Or are you more in the Sam Harris camp?

I agree that he and his plan are not evil.

That verse in Isaiah is indeed puzzling. However, considering the Bible was written in a different time and context than our own, and the KJV was translated by people in a different time and context than our own, I don't think we can interpret "evil" as being the sort of dark malevolence we associate with hell and Satan. It's helpful to look at other similar verses and read them in context. Job, for instance, said we "receive evil" at the hand of God, referring to his trials. But trials are slightly different than what we think of today as "evil." And it's also important to note that, in that story, God allowed Satan to torment Job. God did not actually do the tormenting.

And that, I think, is key. Evil exists, in my opinion, because God placed us in a world of chaos and expects us to apply true principles to create a habitable order (to paraphrase Jordan Peterson). I think God is much less of an interventionist than we sometimes suppose. He allows evil to exist because God does not violate the natural laws that govern the universe. And one of those laws seems to be that things devolve into chaos unless another force actively organizes them (as with the creation story in Genesis).

But if the laws that govern the universe were written by God, then why would he write them that way? He could've created beings that don't need to be tested and tried. He could've created an Eden-like state that was incapable of corruption... that the snake could not penetrate.

How could a good God have created beings such as us for the sole purpose of giving him glory, arbitrarily decide the rules they must live by, knowing full well that the vast majority would fall short and not accept him (nor even hear his name), and then when they do fall short, condem them to an eternity of suffering? If that is God, then living in his presence would be hell.

But I do not believe that is God. I believe in a God who perfectly understands truth, who perfectly understands the path that leads to an exhalted state, and his commandments act as guide posts. Obeying his word leads us to him, and then his grace gives us salvation.

I cannot, of course, prove this is true. But it makes much more sense to me.

@jnaatjes Actually, according to Titus 2, it is God's grace that leads us to Him, as He teaches us His way. Yes, God "allowed Satan to torment Job", or caused him so to do. Perfect love (God) casts out fear. Job feared. God loved him enough to cast out that fear, using Satan to show him that his fear was unjustified.

God doesn't condemn sufferers to an eternity of suffering. He perfects through suffering. God is perfecting His creatures, His creation, using "evil" as part of the process.

@dmatic I think you're right that grace also helps you come unto Christ, because I've personally felt his enabling power in my own life.

I agree that evil is necessary. I think it's a necessary precondition for our perfection. But I have a hard time believing a good God would intentionally make it that way. Why not create beings who are already perfect and don't need to suffer? If you're making up the rules, why make suffering part of the process for perfection?

I know it's not a traditionally accepted Christian idea, but I can only see 2 possibilities... either God is bound by natural law, and we don't fully understand what he means when he says he's omnipotent, or God is malevolent and likes to watch us suffer. A possible third explanation is that God is merely a creator but is not interested in us.

But because I have developed a relationship with God, and because I've seen his love in my life, my feeling at the moment is that the first option comes nearest to the truth.