You bring up some good points.

Nazis were a specific political party in Germany, which is one of the reasons a "Nazi" state has not arisen. It seems they mixed typical fascism with white supremacy and other weird, mystical beliefs. There were other fascist governments, however, during WWII. Italy under Mussolini was also fascist, and you could easily argue that Japan under Tojo was a sort of Eastern fascism.

You make a great point about the Nazis also being imperialists, which makes them less nationalistic than we might think. But the difference between them and the globalists on the left is they wanted the glory of Germany, specifically, to be spread across the whole world. The Marxist, globalist wants a new world order with no governments, controlled by the common man... which, of course, ends up meaning a huge government that takes away all control from the common man and kills anyone who disagrees.

Both sides essentially end up at the same awful place. But I think it's helpful to ask ourselves, "Given my predisposition and biases, which path am I mostly likely to be pursuaded to walk down, and how do I keep myself from doing that?"

And my point is placing all the blame on the other side leaves us blind to our own problems.

@jnaatjes I like your points.

Just one comment: My wife is actually Japanese and she always refers to Tojo as "Militarist". Pedantic, I admit!

Right. I think that happens when we drift toward overly romantic nationalism, where we start to think we are inherently better than people from other nations, simply because of where we were born. That leads to imperialism. That's what led to WWII.

@jnaatjes Don't forget the Nazi's rode a bunch of anti-Semitic hatred, general paranoia about outsiders, and unfair treatment by outside countries in the wake of a massive war. Also a lot of economic issues.

Again, if that makes them leftists, then why does the left abhor the Nazis? Why is the right more bothered by Communism.

Most of the right is obviously disgusted by Nazi ideas. But at a gut level, there's certainly more of a tolerance on the right for things that lean in the direction of Nazism... at least more so than things that lean toward Marxism.

@jnaatjes The big secret is that the progressives don't abhor the Nazis. It is a diversion. They want the collective to blame the Republicans and "rich white men" for taking their wealth. The most evil thing to call someone is a racist Nazi so they place the labels on us to convince their useful idiots that we are evil and everything we stand for is evil so that they won't dare even consider the other side. The Nazi's used the same propaganda techniques to demonize the Jews. Then they used the democrats' Jim Crow laws to segregate, dehumanize, and eventually destroy them.

@jnaatjes how can you say on a gut level the right is not as disgusted by the Nazi's? That is ridiculous, the people on the right that you know must not truly be on the right. The last I checked the left is the only side that wears shirts of Cha, idolizes Chavez, thinks Mao was not so bad, and has movie stars supporting Maduro. The only difference I can see is if Hitler was a different color they would probably make excuses for him too, like they did for Mao. There was even a Mao Christmas ornament hanging on the White House tree one year, disgusting. The left can't pin Hitler to the right because the right is not for full government control. I just really disagree.

@Kam60463 I don't know anyone who has a tolerance for actual Nazis. But political views are on a sliding spectrum.

Populist nationalism is sliding in the direction of nationalist socialism (aka fascism). The Trumpian Right is growing increasingly comfortable with regulating the economy to favor American goods, American products, and American blue collar industries. They're also increasingly comfortable with playing identity politics for white people (they're no where near as bad as the left though). Even conservatives who don't agree with this are at least still more comfortable with it (at a gut level) than they are with, say, taxation to redistribute wealth or intersectionality. So again, they are more comfortable with things that "lean" in a certain direction.

That does not make them Nazis, of course.

As for the left being ok with Communists, it might have something to do with race... but Russians are white, and the only thing they ever have to say about the Cold War was how we stupid Americans were too paranoid. They frequently ignore the atrocities committed by the Soviets as well.

@jnaatjes when you say America is regulating the economy to favor American products let's hope so, every country should be doing what they can to help their citizens and country. China is very good at this. I am sick of people thinking America should put every countries needs ahead of their own. We should continue to help where we can but we are so in debt that we are going to have to the piper soon. We are the world's police and barely get a thank you. Our men and women die for other people's nations more than any other country. Thank God for America and other countries that believe in freedom, there are not many around this dangerous world. PS no one is better than the left with identity politics. I am so sick of it, most people I know do their best to get along and are not wrapped up in race, gender, and sexual identity, just be decent.

@Kam60463 that's fine if you believe that. It's just, that's not what conservatism in America traditionally is. The purely conservative take would be that the best thing the government can do for its citizens is get out of the way and let the market work. They'd argue that the govenrment has no business dictating where the products we consume come from... that the more entities competing for the consumer's business, including foreign entities, the better for the consumer, because the competition drives down prices and drives up quality. And that American workers should stop being cry babies and take advantage of the fact that they have more opportunity to succeed than anyone anywhere else has in the history of the world because of the time and country they were born in. That they should stop crying about impoverished Mexican immigrants taking their jobs, and go make themselves more competitive.

But both that view, and the view you just espoused, are right wing. Sometimes I think American conservatives think libertarianism is all there is to right wing politics, but it's not true.

Extreme libertarian is anarchy. But there are different strains of right-wing politics. The only thing that unites them all is nationalism. The left, conversely, is globalist.

Even an extreme libertarian- an anarcho-capitalist- is still a nationalist. They're just so extreme in their libertarianism that they literally define the State at either an individual or familial level. The Government is essentially just the entity designated to enforce laws. A right wing anarchist would say individual should always take matters into their own hands, making them their own government.

Left wing anarchists also exist. They're opposed to both private property and state control... which really makes no practical sense at all.

@jnaatjes That is why Libertarians are the far right, not fascists. The anarchy, you speak of, on the far left is the definition of Communism, add nationalism or statism and you get Fascism.

@shash adding the nationalism makes it right wing.

@jnaatjes No, socialists make it left-winged. National Socialists. The Germans worked for the state, there were no individuals. The military controlled the citizens and deemed who was worthy and who was not. Nationalism on the right is the same as patriotism. It's what the individual CAN do for his country. Nationalism on the left is what the citizens MUST do for the good of the country to be considered citizens. The US did not conquer countries during WW2, they liberated the citizens.

And the right is the only place where those ideas are still alive. I don't want to disparage the right, I want to fight against those bad ideas that exist on the right that threaten these good ideas.

If collectivism is only on the left, then why are conservatives typically so patriotic and loyal to their country, and why do progressives so often hate their own country and their own culture?

@jnaatjes Because collectivism is an adherence to the group over individualism. It's the same as Communism or Marxism. Communism is supposed to be stateless, but that utopia is unrealistic. That is why Communism must become a dictatorship, or Fascist after the wealth is gone. The Marxists must destroy democracy and capitalism in favor of the collective. Democracy and capitalism is what supports freedom of the individual and what made America the most free and prosperous country the world has ever known. Patriots fight to maintain that freedom and support the ideals the country was founded on.

@shash I think some of the right wing patriots in this country are simply following a basic instinct they have to defend the established traditions of their group. And they're luck to belong to a group whose values respect the sovereignty of the individual. Thank you, founding fathers.

But sometimes I see conservatives who bristle against ANY criticisms of America's role in the world, or ANY criticism of a Republcian president, and I wonder what they would've been willing to defend if the established tradition had been something else.

@jnaatjes No human or government is free from criticism or a tainted past. It was the republicans that put morals ahead of established tradition by defeating slavery and giving blacks and women the right to vote. Two things the left tries to change history and take credit for. The left writes the school textbooks. The left has attempted to change the definition of Nazi, and unfortunately it's working.

I think true anarchy appeals to very few people. But I think libertarians also go too far when they suggest that not only should we mistrust government, we should also mistrust all our social institutions. I think they start to totally disregard the need for a social fabric.

And it's like, no, the only way to keep people from relying on the govenrment is if you build strong, voluntary social fabric.

Not believing in the welfare state doesn't mean we stop helping the poor, for instance.

@jnaatjes I get what you're saying, but I've yet to cross paths with a libertarian who had zero regard for the poor. Plenty of privately run charities and organizations that assist the poor, no requirement for government run ones. As for the social institutions, I'm glad there are people left who do question them, blind trust in such is no way to go. Yeah, I don't think alot of people out there desire total anarchy, I sure do not.

@SpikeTalon I agree, actually. I think that's far more often true than not.