LINK Britain's Version Of 'Medicare For All' Is Struggling With Long Waits For Care
"Long waits for care are endemic to government-run, single-payer systems like the NHS. Yet some U.S. lawmakers want to import that model from across the pond. That would be a massive blunder.
Consider how long it takes to get care at the emergency room in Britain. Government data show that hospitals in England only saw 84.2% of patients within four hours in February. That's well below the country's goal of treating 95% of patients within four hours -- a target the NHS hasn't hit since 2015.
Now, instead of cutting wait times, the NHS is looking to scrap the goal."
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.The devil is in the detail, as Jordan Peterson would say.
The right wing government is selling it off to private entrepreneurs at an alarming rate.
So what system is your recommendation ?
Organicplum
Level 7
Apr 14, 2019
1
Gemma O’Dogherty (check her out on YouTube while she’s still there) said yesterday that there are hundreds of thousands waiting for hospital beds in Ireland. Yet they’re bringing in migrants by the thousands who are already destroying the culture of many cities and small towns.
maggiemay97
Level 3
Apr 9, 2019
1
No idea - different country!
I said that on facebook and it got me in Facebook jail. This is why I love this site to air my views without offending some gobshite
GB has been taken over by the muslims! Flooding the system to make it crash is their agenda and nothing else............
rogue
Level 5
Apr 9, 2019
2
Ireland also
What evidence do you have for that assertion?
@Incajackson EYES!
@rogue OK - What have you seen, in the UK, as evidence for that assertion?
@Incajackson Tom Quiggin Reflects on his Complaint to RCMP to investigate Liberal Govt Funding for Terrorism. Check this x RCMP and what he has to say.
@rogue I'm talking about the UK.
@Incajackson For example.
There isn't a health care system in the world that isn't rationed in one way or another. It has to be rationed either by time (waiting lists) or price (some people can't afford it). So, it's a choice that all countries have to make. There isn't yet a perfect system, otherwise we'd all be doing it already!
Incajackson
Level 6
Apr 9, 2019
1
The welfare system in the UK used to work, until we allowed the EU to force us to allow millions of migrants into the UK. How can a small country possibly sustain taking care of millions of extra people who burden our healthcare system without every paying in, it was a recipe for disaster. Another big thank you to the EU for screwing the UK!
Jaycee2010
Level 4
Apr 8, 2019
2
Not quite. I live in an area (city) of the UK with very few migrants and we suffer the same drawbacks as elsewhere in the country. So, blaming the problems purely on immigration is a bit too simplistic.
@Incajackson When you run out of gas the whole car stops, not just part of it ffs!!
@rogue I repeat - a bit too simplistic.
There are other factors to take into account when trying to explain the problems the NHS is suffering. When it was introduced in 1948, the world of medicine was very different and the NHS was really only designed for emergencies and serious illnesses. People didn't receive the extensive and expensive treatments for things like cancer because those treatments didn't exist! Even after the first year, politicians realised that they couldn't include everything and so the provision of free spectacles was removed in 1949 (except for children).
Now, it's services have expanded to include many other, equally worthy, causes such as mental health, social care etc. Add to that, welcome, modern advances into increasingly expensive treatments, drugs and equipment, an unsuccessful foray into the use of the private finance initiative in the 1990s to upgrade dilapidated buildings and you can see that it starts to become a lot more complex.
If we forcefully removed every single immigrant from the UK, it wouldn't solve those problems. In fact, it would just exacerbate them, as many immigrants work in the NHS!
Most debate about the future of the NHS focuses on methods of funding and people often look towards countries such as France, Japan or Germany for new ideas. Unfortunately, many residents view the NHS as a sacred cow and refuse to even consider any changes and that stifles any rational public debate.
To you who say it is too simplistic, yes it might be but if you look at the number of illegal migrants to the UK as well as the legal migrants allowed in because of our open borders you will see how many millions have been added to the UK's population and unless every one of those people pay into the system that pays for our healthcare you will see how it will eventually fail, and that is what has been happening. It has been slowly overloaded with more and more people being given free healthcare, people from Europe who have come to the UK just to get free healthcare, it has been happening for decades and without being allocated sufficient funds by the government to cover the additional load on the system it is doomed to failure. It is way too complicated to argue all of the points on one page or even 100 pages, but the simplistic fix is to take the load off the system, and that means the people who have been freeloading on it for years and make them pay, just as they do in the USA, nothing is free and someone has to pay for it, and without taxing the British workers even more to subsidize the healthcare system to pay for the freeloaders it can only go downhill.
I would also add a demographic factor; the UK has an increasing aging population and a relatively high birthrate. In other words, the number of tax payers and the number of to-be-provided-for are out of balance.
As a backround of my personal beliefs, i'm a classic liberal, love a bit of that capitalism and I think the government is worryingly large in the UK at the moment. However, I personally have had nothing but good experiences with the NHS. It has served me very well my entire life. I do hear horror stories about the service from friends etc but I have yet to see this for myself. It was always quick and did a very high quality service. A part of me really likes the idea of a universal healthcare system but as with most things, the government does a terrible job at handling things. The NHS is only going to get more unstable and less efficient. I can't see them keeping up the high standard and apparnelty it is already going downhill... but honestly, I think it might be a better system then the american one, although neither is ideal.
Toad3
Level 2
Apr 8, 2019
1
I agree it was slowly going downhill when I left the UK 30 years ago, but with so many people suddenly descending on the UK is has overloaded a system that was running almost at maximum capacity as it was. As for the person who said removing the migrants would not help, of course it would, it would open up jobs for people in the UK and take a couple of million people off the NHS. OK some of them might be working and paying in but if half are not that is still a million people freeloading, and it is not just the freeloading it is the massive overload of the system. My niece came back to the UK for a surgery, something I do not agree with as she has lived in the USA most of her life and has never paid anything into the UK, but she still got a surgery within 6 weeks, and cost her nothing! I am sure people travel to the UK from Europe and do the same thing, this is another reason why we need closed borders with the EU, or at least controlled borders..
Canada is having the same problem but there are still many people that believe the US should follow a healthcare system like Canada’s or Brittain’s. Would it be nice to have healthcare for all. Absolutely. Unfortunately in our current state you can’t have healthcare for all and have it be quick.
Jomsviking1776
Level 4
Apr 8, 2019
0
Our health system is being over run by muslims! The plan is to make the country fail then take over, look at their past record...................
It seems a lot of places are having their culture and systems changed by mass immigration.
The reason the NHS is stretched is because of all the migrants and refugees, bringing their own brand of diseases. Tourists come into the uk then wham they need a new heart, kidney and deliver multiply births......they don't pay yet I have to have medical insurance if I want to travel. The government don't care, we pay for their private treatment. The NHS needs an overhaul as theirs to many chiefs and not enough indians, an old English quote.
Leelumorticia
Level 5
Apr 8, 2019
1
Actually, our government does have an agreement with various other countries that, in the event we treat their citizens, the cost can be recouped from their governments. However, for some reason (probably too much paperwork!) our civil service doesn't enforce the agreement.
Wait! I'm an immigrant living in the UK. I work hard and pay tax. I've never asked for or received any benefit. Am I counted in, please?
@Naomi I'm all for people wanting a better life its when they don't want to contribute anything to society but will take, that pisses me off especially when the pension age is raised to support the scumbags
The open border policy is the problem. I sincerely hope Brexit is gonna happen (funny coming from an immigrant like me- ha, ha!)
@Naomi my hairdressers come from Poland and Slovakia. I love them both and would adopt them should they have to return. They are very good to me and I hope they realise that I have great respect for them and the countries they come from. My grandfather instilled in us that if it wasn't for the brave polish we would have lost to germany. Not all migrants are bad but it still boils my piss when avantages are taken.
It is basically about rapid, massive influxes of people no matter where they come from and no matter where they go. No country can be expected to cope with this. I-\n simple terms, it's like you suddenly find 10 people on your doorstep and you're expected to look after them all. That's just impossible. Take care.
@Naomi Exactly and that is the point I have been trying to make, by adding so many extra people wanting healthcare without increasing the budget to the healthcare system dramatically then it is bound to fail. So they need to either start charging none Citizens for healthcare, or increase the amount we have to pay in to national insurance to cover the extra burden, The second option is unfair to tax payers as it is putting the burden of freeloaders on the backs of the British tax payers.
I'm from the UK, I was diagnosed with early onset prostate cancer last year and the treatment I have recieved has been fisrt class. I got an MRI within a day, a bone scan within a week and regular check ups biopsies etc on a rolling programme. Having said that our once flagship system is cracked and broken in parts. The staff are often unable to provide actual care beyond the essentials because of lack of investment and burdensome bean counters. Don't get toothache over here it'll cost you to get it fixed. I know care provision varies, I live in a rural area and am perhaps lucky with our local services. I'd hate to see our NHS go but then I don't know what it's like under any other form of care provision.
GrouchoMark
Level 4
Apr 8, 2019
2
Good luck, mate.
All the best. Take care.
Although I do not dispute the long waiting times that frequently occur at A&E, I feel I must add a little nuance. Because treatment is free at the point of delivery (not absolutely free because we all pay for it through the tax system), it feels free. Therefore, some people take themselves to A&E for the most pathetic of reasons - a splinter, a bit of toothache, bad sunburn etc. In other words, not really emergencies at all. These people are dealt with politely but tend to clog up the system and are the ones who are usually made to wait while the medical staff give priority to real emergencies. I can tell you, from experience, that if it's a head injury,suspected fracture or chest pains etc. you will be attended to immediately. So, statistics and targets may be useful but they don't always give you the whole picture.
There is currently encouragement from government for people with minor complaints to seek help from their local pharmacist (who are medically trained and it is also free) and think twice before going to A&E.
Incajackson
Level 6
Apr 8, 2019
1
VonO:
That is a real bug in any such system.
It is free for people who do not pay taxes and are in the UK illegally, free for the person who gets the treatment, but paid for by tax payers. That is why I do not agree with giving healthcare to migrants unless they can prove they work and pay into the system. If they are illegal they should be deported, not treated!
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