"There is no such thing as society" - it sounds a little disconcerting, doesn't it? Maggie Thatcher said it and it is often quoted by anti-Thatcherites to demonise her . The thing is, they hardly quote the rest of what she actually said, and once you know the full context of her remark, you will realise she was saying quite the opposite to what anti-Thatcherites want people to believe and, it actually makes a lot of sense:
I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it: 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society.
There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation.
Mind you, now she sounds like a visionary! She was right.
Do you know any quote like this that has been taken out of context and misapplied? Let me know.
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Well certain problems can only be solved at the group action level like group conflict like between ethnic groups. it is hard to succeed on this alone.
Schrabrina
Level 2
Mar 27, 2019
1
I do not think her critics are using that quote out of context. People sometimes do limit it to “There’s no such thing as society” because that’s memorable, and you can infer the meaning from it.
The suggestion that everyone should look to their families and neighbors for help, completely ignores the question of whether or not those people have the means. Look at the closure of mines in the 80s. Generations of families grew up in these places and when the mines closed, the entire town would be left to rot. Nobody would be able to help. The government however, which can direct spending on a national level and alleviate the economic problems is perfectly placed to resolve these problems. The fact she didn’t is one of the reasons why these towns remain destitute 40 years later.
So much for personal responsibility, when the failures of her government have yet to be addressed. So much for having obligations when she ignored her duties as prime minister. So much for criticising “entitlement” that she sold off council housing at discount rates to the occupants, because she believes everyone should own a home...
Make no mistake, a lot of damage has been done to this country by Thatcherism. You guys don’t like the “elites” and the division today? Well, neoliberalism is the cause, and she is its mother.
InternetDorkWeb
Level 6
Mar 25, 2019
0
I take your point about Thatcher, but I think it has to be discussed under a different post. Why don't you open a debate on Thatcherism yourself? I'm sure many people will be interested.
As you point out yourself, a tiny excerpt from someone's remark is inferable, and that is the point I was making. Please let me know if you can think of any excerpts and quotes that are slightly controversially inferable, as I hardly know any myself.
@Naomi “Religion is the opiate of the masses” -Marx
Opiates were a common pain killer at the time of writing, not the hard drugs we think of today.
Now you're talking! lol This is very interesting. "The truth is that, while Marx was very critical of religion, he was also in some ways sympathetic.", right? You should post this to invite others to discuss - you haven't posted anything yet. Or shall I do that for you?
@Naomi When I can think of something worth posting, then I will. There’s not much use in posting the Marx quote in its own thread when it’s already here, I don’t think.
Generally I sympathise with what she was saying. But she did not say it particulary well. Of course there is society. Perhaps there is no society in the sense that people invoke when they feel powerless.
Michendo
Level 3
Mar 25, 2019
1
My point was how someone's remark could be taken out of context and misapplied. In Thatcher's case (and others' for that matter), she can't defend herself because she's dead. lol
But I hear what you say.
Lady Thatcher is absolutely spot on here. In the same sense there is no government, but a collection of individual politician and bureaucrats who make decisions that affect us all. Collective groups only make decisions and choices if there are enough individuals within that group who decide or choose the same way. Any politician who refuses to do what's right for the people because it may adversely affect his/her political career is short-sighted and selfish. "My continuation in office is more important than the policy that the country needs." The individuals who comprise the government have a self-interest that may be at odds with the needs of the country, state, county, city or township.
Lickspittle
Level 6
Mar 24, 2019
4
I agree! We cannot not belong to a group, but it's got to be the individuals in that group who are the driving force of the group, not the group that controls the individuals in it. In my simple mind, I prefer bottom-up approach (liberalism?) to top-down approach (socialism?) .
Agree. Labour,s Corbyn basis his speeches on the dire position of the poorer people. He pretends that labour would give freely to all. Never mentions self responsibility or obligation, encouraging them to believe that the tories are to blame and the said people played no part in their own misfortune. Grassroots people continue to vote for Corbyn because this dogma is ensconced in their minds to the exclusion of everything else.
Corbyn - Don't get me started! Or May for that matter! The UK is an absolute embarrassment to the world, re: Brexit! I'm gonna have to calm down now, and no thanks to you. LOL
@Justme Not a whole lot different here across the pond. Two recent elections where Democrats won the popular vote but were kept out of the White House only because of the Electoral College tells a story where 50+% of the people are buying the whole "we'll take care of you in exchange for your vote" mythology.
I agree with this nearly entirely. I can't think of any (mis)quotes at the moment, but I know one I want to paraphrase. You've heard the quote "Soylent Green is people!" ? I think it might be on point to howl "Government is people!" in the same tones of alarm. Certainly I feel the US gov has got too big for its britches, yet folks seem to be able to continue to think it's a benign, neutral substance of some kind, that you can just scoop up off the ground and wield as you please.
DesertMinx
Level 5
Mar 24, 2019
2
I hear what you say. The UK government is terrible in a similar manner. Brexit is on news day in day out, and it's become apparent that the politicians are not representing their constituents; they're too busy with political struggles among themselves to listen to what the people in the UK are demanding. Plus, the censorship implemented by the government is getting worse. Freedom of speech is dying in the UK, yet, many people seem nonchalant about it. Perhaps, they can't relate themselves when high-profile figures like Sargon of Akkad and Tommy Robinson become banned by social media. The thing is, once it got to them, it would be all too late.
@Naomi It's what can happen when people allow themselves to think "rights" are given to us by government. It's odd, too, because English Common Law was a major game changer...
Tell me about it. It's going backwards... baffling.
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