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What do you guys/gals think? I watched a 13 year old girl get stoned to death in 2004 in Afghanistan. We weren't allowed to intervene. It will probably be the last thing I think of while I take my last breath. So I'm biased. Skip to 2:20 on the vid

ADMIN: Please note my comment at the bottom of this page. I suspect that this may be a hoax video.

LastLiberal 6 Mar 4
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6 comments

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1

Interference in the Muslim countries has lead to its spread. Wars fix nothing and can give an advantage to ideology that we fight against. Sharia has spread in England. And the same in other places where Islam is the majority. Remember they dominate from within the freedoms the host country supplies.

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Interference in the Muslim countries has lead to its spread. Wars fix nothing and can give an advantage to ideology that we fight against. Sharia has spread in England. And the same in other places where Islam is the majority. Remember they dominate from within the freedoms the host country supplies.

1

Half my family is from India, my Grandfather's side is Christian, and my Grandmother's side is Muslim, from what I understand, is that India was riddled with Religious conflict, until the British colonized it. The British were basically the only thing keeping the different religious groups from killing each other. Under this period many of the Muslims did secularize, which I can thankfully say is the case for a large part of my extended family. When the British left, and India divided, many of the factions regressed into their old ways, sadly. I say this, because I do know that Islam can be made to conform to the modern, and secular world.

The Issue:

Basically, when Islam started spreading from the middle east, the Islamic caliphates forcibly converted many Christians, Jews, and Pagans, and especially Zoroastrians, Buddhists and Hindus, the farther eastward they went. It is important to remember that Zoroastrianism was the Religion of the Persian Empire, and the Sassanid Empire (which covered relatively the same territory as the Persian Empire, but was formed in Late antiquity, as Greco-Roman influence decreased in the middle east, as the Roman Empire split) which expanded from Asia Minor (Modern day Turkey) to India.

Islam was spread by the sword, the way it historically expanded was through military insurgence, and it forced conversion on all the cultures it invaded, unless you were Christian, or Jewish, in which case if you didn't want to convert, you would get a second class status, and would have to pay extra taxes. Under the Ottomans, the first born male of the Greek Christians would be taken from the family, converted to Islam, and trained militarily to make up what was known as their Janissary force, which was an elite soldier in the Ottoman army. Though the Janissary practice isn't definitive of Islamic-run states generally, what is definitive, is that it can be justified by the belief, that non-Muslims under Islamic rule do not garner the same status as Muslims. In Islamic Spain, they expelled the Jews, because of such intolerance. This persists when you look at no-go zones across Europe, the local Jewish community is the first to be persecuted. There is evidence that in Sweden, there are currently Jewish communities that have to relocate, because of the danger that the proximate Muslim communities pose. That is not to mention that the ideology is easy to join, and deadly to depart from, and is culturally designed to expand through conversion, subversion and breeding, this sounds hyperbolic, but some of the more radical branches have admitted as much.

The greatest issue I see, is the left wing is either willfully blind, or naive (or both) about Islam as a religion. Islam functions as a Religion, a Legal System, a Political Ideology, and also has a Cultural aspect, which admittedly might be better attributed to Arabic Culture. It is definitely not helpful to label those who criticize Islam as racists, as Muslims are not a race, as a matter of fact, Islam is quite racially diverse. I'll start there, and am by no means an expert, but I am pretty aware of the dangers Islam poses to the west, which in my opinion is far more threatening than the far Left or Far right, because the imposition of a Canonical (for lack of a better word) Islamic society is more Totalitarian, and far more archaic.

This is what I meant when I called it a "perfect" ideology. It is perfectly designed to spread. Fear is the great motivator and when you have the idea that god, the alpha and the omega, DEMANDS that non believers and apostates be destroyed, it limits the ability for more reasoned moderation. It becomes almost impossible to secularize when the threat of decapitation, stoning, or crucifixion is what will happen to you for attempting reform

What can we do? This is why I made this post. I think about this every day and I have yet to come up with anything even resembling a humane solution. Look out how Myanmar and China attempt to solve it. Genocide and "re-education." I think that will only make things worse. Yet I don't have any better ideas

@LastLiberal I am perhaps, more cynical than you in the fact that I am aware that even the average Muslim believes that the Qua-ran cannot be changed, or updated, and even secular Muslims consider translations of the Qua-ran as illegitimate "interpretations" of the text, which can only be properly understood in Arabic. An tack on the Hadiths, which often divert, if not contradict he Qua-ran.

Even worse, here is the argument I despise myself for making, but it holds substance. Islamic familial culture is forcibly designed for actual patriarchal oppression, and does treat women as second class, despite its external veneer of feminine protectionism. In many Arabic-based Islamic societies, the husband can legally rape his spouse, who might even be as young as 12 years old. This is designed to take advantage of youthful fertility, and produce more children. It is well documented by Isis's , I don't know what you'd call it, other than a socio-political manifesto, that they do intend on taking advantage of political correctness (which Imam Tawhidi does warn about in his interviews with Gad Saad, and Tommy Robinson), and subvert the culture, and go as far as say they plan on out-breeding westerners. The president of Turkey, who isn't a member of an extremist group has dictated to international Turks within Europe, that they must enter European governing bodies/ positions of social/ legal power for the purpose of cultural subversion.

One of the difficulties that you and I might share would be an intrinsic mistrust of those who claim to hold an ideology, or a belief system that permits dishonesty for manipulative purposes. What I think is that western societies ought not concentrate on appealing to cultures or beliefs that are intentionally subversive, and instead assertively buttress the cultural values that helped build the west to begin with. I think the Christian community ought to attempt to convert Muslims, as many try to do within secular society anyway, and I am appalled by the militant Atheist community who would zealously critique Christianity, but cower under Father Mark's vestments to avoid the same fervent critiquing of the great Religion of Peace. Like I said previously, Islam can be made to fit within the socio-cultural norms, what we have to do is enforce a social dynamic that represses and punishes the extreme expressions of the religion, while facilitating cultural assimilation.

#notallmuslims

@Marcus_Aurelius I agree. We have an inherent issue when it comes to solving this problem. Denial. Even on a website which names itself after the IDW tagged this post as a hoax. It bothers people to think that a truly vile ideology is out there succeeding amongst humanity. It must be dealt with, logically and humanely for sure, but dealt with nonetheless. If we can't show people being thrown off roofs because they're gay, or crucified because they're christian, or decapitated because they're from a western society, we can't approach the situation realistically. People have to SEE it

0

My niece was in Afghanistan for medical humanitarian aid and secretly filmed (from their car) a man beating a totally covered woman with a big hard stick. It was right in the middle of an open market in Kabul and everyone around acted as if it was normal. My niece said it was the hardest thing not to intervene but they had been warned not to.

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My husband was in Dubai in the 60s and a woman was stoned in the public square while he was there. He did not watch.

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I have to say that this video it's not a verifiable and I'd suspect that it is probably a hoax.. That is, it's quite possible that the editing of the clip was such to suggest they were raising their hands to specific questions but in reality they were raising theirs to unrelated questions. The evidence to me that this is true is that when they ask who was Sunni and who were Shia, the whole room raised their hands both times. A Muslim would most likely be either one, not both.

I am not saying that I don't believe you about the stoning as I've seen evidence that such things happen but only on the veracity of the video. If it does turn out to be a hoax, I wonder the author's motivation. The Muslim people I've interacted with locally seem quite comfortable with non-assigned seating and most other society norms including being laissez faire regarding homosexuality. Perhaps it's less typical in other countries.

The speaker's name is Fahad Qureshi. When asked about this video he said his comments were misunderstood, not taken out of context. Only articles I found on this video are Scandinavian and unfortunately, I cannot speak to the integrity of these publications. I don't find anything saying it's a hoax, or anyone claiming to be taken out of context or deceptive editing etc. I still looked for a way to delete this post this morning because I don't want to stir up a shit storm on this site.

@LastLiberal I'd rather disclose it as a hoax and keep it here than delete it. Let's see if other people have thoughts on it. If it turns out to be a real video, then that's another discussion. Thanks!

@Admin It's looking like this is not a hoax. The video was released by Islam.net, the organization was founded by the aforementioned Fahad Qureshi. From what little I can gather his organization was receiving some type of funding from the Norwegian government which was revoked after the release of this video. This was apparently a big deal in Norway in 2013. Here is a link in English. Again I know nothing about the integrity of this news outlet.

[thelocal.no]

@LastLiberal Interesting. I rewatched it and now can see that it could very well be legit. I now see that they said Sunni twice not one each. Sunni is the more strict and traditionalist of the two main branches. A bit scary to watch again.

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