Mask wearing is a choice, and personally I know a number of conservative Republicans who wore/wear a mask due to their own choices. They are no less conservative in their views simply because they wear a mask. It's my understanding that Covid was never a problem in Milei's country like it was here in the US, so the two should not be compared against each other. Of course, I personally don't think Covid was ever a real issue in our country, but that's another story...

Attached is a photo of Trump wearing a mask. That says it all... according to your logic that is. Do you feel naive yet?? Trump is playing conservatives for fools, with his many lies. That said, I do not for one moment harbor hatred for the man, as he is but another tool used by the globalists, and he has my deepest sympathies if anything.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Making me support Putin vs. the corruption of the worst of Europe.

Not very far from "the queers for Palestine" and getting debauched by Iran WHEN Israel is the only country in the Middle East THAT tolerates the 'rainbow' flag advocates...

My interactions with you and other libertarians on this site were usually positive. You were usually in agreement with MAGA on most things: lockdowns, Bill Gates unsafe vaccines, the hateful left, Critical Race Theory, Wokeness, Trump Derangement Syndrome. The list goes on. These were all things you hated. Also, we agreed about imperialism being a liberal agenda. We all agree here that liberal tolerance went too far, but Dave Rubin himself is gay if I recall. We had nothing against gays, we didn't agree with the agenda to force participation. We have humor. We love Dave Chappelle.

When I am on Facebook libertarian groups, it is another story. There, I encountered libertarians with Trump Derangement Syndrome. We here think Republicans are much better than Democrats. They in the LPUSA think both parties are equally evil. Some libertarians even went woke. Some libertarians were more like the ones in this group, and they were embarrassed by the way the LPUSA is going. They invented the meme, not me. Disillusioned libertarians pointed out that Chase Oliver supports Drag Queen Story Hour. The Chasetards are in coalition with Jill Stein, Cornel West, and Ajamu Baraka, which are socialists. Heck, I even encountered a libertarian who believes that gun violence is a problem and wants common sense gun control. I was shocked. Jo Jorgensen is for open borders.

This is what I mean by a conservative libertarian. Level-headed. Agreeing with conservatives that the Democrat Party hates America. Sympathetic towards MAGA as a movement. One thing that used to turn me off about Libertarians is open borders. But now I see that open borders libertarians still exist. None of them are here in this group. There are libertarians paid by George Soros. In Africa, George Ayittey proved extremely disappointing. Ayittey approved of Soros and apparently believes that Boers are racist. But he is Africa's libertarian. If Africa had an empire dominated by George Ayittey's neoliberalism, it would be us whites hating capitalism. Seriously. Patrice Lumumba is the one that tells me I'm not guilty, and Ayittey calls him a socialist. In the Congo, Denis Mukwege is similar to Chase Oliver, and he has Tshisekedi Derangement Syndrome. Soros pays Mukwege. Open borders manifests as Rwanda sending terrorists.

But now I find that you are with Chase Oliver, and I am shocked. I started out as an economic interventionist while Bush was President. I preferred Bush over Kerry because Bush Derangement Syndrome pushed me to the right. Then I was persuaded by free market literature that laissez faire was correct. I was attracted to closed borders libertarians like the ones here. This year's experience has given me a reality check. Libertarianism is not popular in third world countries. Milei is a fluke, and he turns out to be a conservative.

As for Putin, the fake news cannot be trusted on Putin, either, and the worst position I will entertain is that our current conflict with Russia is a cold war like the previous cold war: justified, but atrocious in its conduct. I don't think it is even that. Putin is a huge step above Krushchev. The Cold War politics came here and overthrew our own leader. It is now possible to understand the Congo, thanks to Russia, Russia. Conservatives are Lumumbists, and Lumumbists are conservatives. But few look into it.

@jasonc65 That's not really a matter of us agreeing or disagreeing there, I'm trying to understand how you can rationalize the meme above? Just because one supposed libertarian has some odd ways about him does not automatically mean every other libertarian out there or the political Party itself is somehow socialist now. Also, those who identify as and who genuinely are liberal are not our enemies... our true enemy is those who identify as leftwing progressive socialist/communists. There is a very big difference between being liberal and being a progressive. All those politically correct things you mentioned there come courtesy of the leftwing progressive crowd.

Offering up an honest criticism of Donald Trump does not automatically equate to Trump Derangement Syndrome. Trump made many promises the last time that of which he did not keep, from not making sure Hillary Clinton was put in jail, to pushing tariffs which are nothing more than an over-glorified tax, to promoting yet more corporate welfare, to infringing on our gun rights with his ban on bumpstocks, and the list goes on. He is not our friend, he is the damn swamp, and the national debt increased quite a bit during his watch. Trump is no Javier Milei, that's for sure. Besides, how do you know for sure those really were libertarians and not some bad actors associated with leftwing groups posing as libertarians? The two-Party system in our country is crooked, and continues to sell we the people up the river. I don't blame them for feeling disillusioned with the system.

There are alot of conservatives out there who are equally phony. I am not with Chase Oliver, you misunderstand... I am merely questioning here why him being queer and wearing a mask somehow equates to socialism? That statement makes no bit of logical sense to me, as both of those are about making choices for oneself and have nothing directly to do with socialism. Need I remind you that in the beginning of the Covid pandemic before Fauci declared that masks were a good idea, alot of conservatives on the right were stocking up on supplies like face masks and taking certain precautions precisely because they did not trust the Government to do the right thing. A few weeks later Fauci then declared that mask wearing was necessary, and shortly afterwards those on the right shifted their views on face masks and became staunchly opposed to such. At the start of the Covid pandemic it was the conservatives who had stocked up on supplies like face masks, the leftwing progressives copied off of them.

I don't care about what the news medias have to say about Putin, I care about the claims Putin makes himself. Not comparing there, both Putin and Krushchev are equally rotten and corrupt in my book, and Putin has no qualms in disposing of those who go against his will. He has ruled Russia now for over two decades, and maintains his rule over that country just like a dictator does. The man has too many communistic ways about him, a reminder of his days serving in the Soviet Union. If that is the only scenario you are willing to entertain, then I'm afraid you are not thinking nearly enough on thay matter my friend. I not only distrust the leftwing medias, but also the rightwing ones as well, as both of them desire absolute control over our minds. I'm reminded of that song Everybody Wants To Rule The World, which is an accurate depiction of the world today. Question everything and believe nothing, and never stop thinking for yourself. Don't let yourself be persuaded by any one given ideology, for they all are trying to manipulate your mind. Nothing human made is perfect or totally trustworthy for that matter, and as a friend that's the best advice I can give you.

@SpikeTalon I'm going to shock you. I am not sure how thinking gun violence is a problem and wanting common sense gun control and red flag laws equates to authoritarianism. My real concern is about the war on guns, which is like the war on drugs. The left has the agenda to take guns away from us, and they groom the shooters. It is a lather, rinse, repeat.

Progressivism is very popular in the third world. It doesn't mean communism every time. Women's rights is considered progressive, and many countries want it. Many countries are coming from a status quo where sexism is still real. And of course queer is progressive, and you have no problem with it.

I have taken a reality check on government run healthcare, and most countries want it and have it already. Cato Institute praises Botswana, and they have progressive policies, including free healthcare. Even the most staunchly capitalist countries have it. I don't know how to explain it. I cannot understand it economically. Lumumba is remembered as a progressive. The term is vague, anyway. Progressive simply means having goals. Communism might be the goal (Democrats, WEF, etc) but not necessarily.

I'm giving libertarianism the reality check. Most of the world doesn't want it. Libertarianism had an epic fail in a Massachusetts small town, where they could could not even fund the police. It feels like socialism defund the police. It was a deregulation epic fail. Most of the world believes in regulated capitalism, the social contract, the minimum wage, and safety regulations. There is no such thing as libertarianism. It doesn't exist.

There are libertarian globalists, Soros libertarians, open borders libertarians, libertines, Woke libertarians, economically capitalist cultural marxists, and reverse global capitalism that hates whites. George Ayittey thinks Boers are racist. Rwanda is now killing in the UK. If Africa were an empire filled with George Ayittey neoliberals, we whites would be hating capitalism. Libertarianism is a mess. Biden is Hitler, and Putin is applying Churchill. We must stop the war. It's crazy.

@jasonc65 Nothing you mentioned there actually shocked me, and no doubt there's a war on guns being actively pushed by those on the left. A number of those on the right have also gone along for the gun control ride, and I'm not talking about just red flag laws there either.

Again, nothing shocking there, and I never suggested that any and all forms of progressive policies are automatically communist. I am all in favor of equal rights for women, but I don't support this thing called feminism, which is more about promoting an agenda than it is simply to uphold civil rights. As for homosexuality goes, I am not nor have I ever been okay with that sort of thing, I think that's unnatural, and have never tried to hide how I feel about that whenever asked directly. I may not like that sort of lifestyle, but I also recognize that I live in a free country, which means people should reserve the right to live their lives as they see fit regardless of whether I agree with them on their decisions or not. I don't like drugs either, but still think that sort of thing comes down to making personal decisions. I think you get the picture...

I don't agree with Government-run healthcare, and the mere thought concerns me to no end. I also don't care about how some other libertarian organizations or individuals might be in favor of such, as libertarians come in all shapes and sizes and political persuasions, so making generalizations is probably not the best idea.

Am I supposed to be shocked by the statement that most of the world doesn't want libertarianism? Because I'm not shocked and have known that was apparent for years now. Not surprisingly, I also think most of the world has lost its way, and perhaps the reason why there are so many troubling issues going on around the world right now is due to a majority of people not taking a balanced and fair approach to things? You're right, pure libertarianism does not exist nor ever has... which is why some of us are trying to open up more eyes to the possibilities libertarianism has to offer. For what it's worth, and to date, the world has also never witnessed either fully socialist/communist/fascist societies as well, as virtually all Governments in the world are a mixture of capitalism and whatever else their respective societies want. For example, there has never truly been a fully communist country. There may be some communist states such as China, but even they have a mixed society that sees capitalistic influence. So in that sense, pure communism as Marx had in mind does not nor ever has existed either. That still wouldn't remove the fact that communist sympathizers do indeed exist, and the belief system itself is very real, just as sure as the libertarian philosophy is very real despite never ever being fully implemented in any society.

Everything you just mentioned there is hardly exclusive to just libertarian types, as the same would apply to any other political and social ideologies, including conservatism. No definition of such viewpoints and beliefs are ever that narrow, and you certainly didn't mention anything above that of which I hadn't already been aware of for years now. I don't trust any of them, from Biden to Putin to Zelensky or even Trump, they are all bad actors as far as I'm concerned and I certainly don't believe any of them have my best interests in mind.

@SpikeTalon libertarianism actually is very narrow. Any intervention in the economy is anathema to libertarianism. Hence your strong dislike of tariffs is consistent with your libertarianism. Conservatism is not narrow, as you say. Conservatism is essentially classical liberalism, recognized as such after liberalism became economic interventionism. Lumumba could be a conservative, but he cannot be a libertarian, since he was for minimum wage and nationalizing the mines. There was one mention of free healthcare in his speeches that I caught. Conservatives have been for minimum wage and tariffs at various times. In the Congo, resource security is an issue that could be used to rationalize nationalization, much like conservatives here rationalize closed borders. In fact, strictly speaking, closed borders is against libertarianism. Conservativism is adaptive. Libertarianism is strict on everything. I am too realistic to be a libertarian anymore. For me, libertarianism is an ideal, not a strict standard. It is a reasonable ideal. Communism is horrible, even as an ideal. But like communism, libertarianism can lose its way in ideologue behavior. I myself was uncomfortable with Trump tariffs, but I liked the result. Jobs were coming back from China. Outsourcing is similar to open borders, and tariffs is the closed border solution to outsourcing. Outsourcing is literally a tax loophole. Tariffs are a much needed tax loophole patch. Too many libertarians are anarchists. Even minarchist libertarianism defunds literally everything except the police. We saw that policy fail big time in a small town in Massachusetts. They must be anarchists, because they somehow managed to defund even the police. So forget it. I am a redpilled ultracrepidarian, like Weltansicht said. Call me socialist. I don't care anymore. When realistic libertarians report that Chase supports Drag Queen Story Hour, I believe them. That is a big globalist issue. I'm like, not around the kids. I don't believe your report that Trump censors platforms. That doesn't sound like him at all. Trump was known for Parler, not Facebook. Also, both libertarianism and communism are internationalistic. They both hate nationalism, and both of these ideologies have condescending lessons for third world countries. Libertarianism might not use war, but I have noticed that when libertarian organizations like Atlas Network and Students for Liberty operate in Africa, they show zero solidarity with any grassroots, including ones that are a step towards libertarian ideals. They have no more support for Zambia's conservative President, Hichilema, than missionaries. Denis Mukwege shows these libertarian traits, and he calls Tshisekedi a dictator. But Tshisekedi got Kabila out of the way of people, and that is huge improvement.

@jasonc65 American libertarianism actually evolved from left-leaning liberalism, and I say left there as back then in that time period the left or just left of center was genuinely liberal and tolerant, unlike today where the leftwing is almost exclusively progressive socialist/communist. Most if not all political or social viewpoints could be considered narrow, and that largely would depend upon personal perception. Modern day conservatism is not classical liberalism per se (they are two different things), think what you meant to say there is that (some) modern conservative viewpoints intersect with classic liberal thoughts and views. Measuring by today's standards and how political/social belief systems are categorized, the classic liberals today are mostly libertarian now (which is what I'd loosely identify as).

I am not in favor of closed borders, I am however in favor of guarded borders and allowing immigrants into the country who do truly mean well and that of which would contribute to the country. There is much evidence out there that would indicate that legal immigration helps boost our economy, fill unpopular job roles, and overall contribute to the betterment of society. The totally closed borders idea proposed by most Republicans of nowadays is technically an un-American position, and while I am in favor of keeping our borders safeguarded against illegal aliens I would not be in favor of fully closed borders like the Republicans desire.

Libertarianism in its truest form is hardly restrictive, and believes that each individual should reserve the right to live their lives as they see fit, so long as they do not impede upon another's existence and how they would desire to live their lives. Conservatism on the other hand is not "adaptive" as you claimed, due to the fact conservatives strive to adhere to perceived traditional values or what sometimes is simply referred to as the "good old days". That goal does not maintain an open mindset, hence it is not exactly adaptive then.

Fair enough as to what you choose to identify with there, and please keep in mind that personally speaking I loosely identify with the term libertarian, as there is far more to my character than what a single word could describe, and I've long found labels of that sort to be far too limiting. No one particular political or social ideology has ever been fully successful, as there will always be some people who would be in disagreement. Any sort of belief system could eventually lose its way as you described above.

You are only focusing on the shortcomings and some consequent failures of libertarianism, while overlooking times when success was achieved. One often-cited example of libertarian principles in action in the United States is the state of New Hampshire, particularly its "Live Free or Die" ethos. New Hampshire has a reputation for low taxes, minimal government intervention, and a strong emphasis on individual liberties. The state has no sales tax and no income tax, which aligns with libertarian ideals of limited government and personal financial freedom. Additionally, New Hampshire has a relatively low level of regulation compared to other states, which proponents argue fosters a more entrepreneurial environment and allows individuals to make their own choices without excessive government oversight. The Free State Project, an initiative that encourages libertarians to move to New Hampshire to promote libertarian policies, has also contributed to the state's reputation as a hub for libertarian activism. While the state still has its share of government programs and regulations, many libertarians view New Hampshire as a successful example of a place where libertarian principles have been implemented to a significant degree.

Yes, there have been some failures with libertarian policies, but success has also been achieved too. Again, I don't favor Chase Oliver or any other political candidate for that matter, and virtually all American political parties nowadays are corrupt to an extent and do not have our best interests in mind. That sounds reasonable, and as I mentioned earlier above I don't much care for labels myself, that sort of thing is too confining. I guess libertarian would be one of the best words to describe my overall viewpoints, but I loosely associate with that word though. Life is too short to worry about what others may think about you or how they would label you politically speaking, let them speculate, doesn't matter much to me.

As for the part about Trump being censor happy goes, you would be gravely mistaken about that one. Since Truth Social was launched a few years back, his site has faced constant criticism from mostly right-leaning individuals who had claimed the site had censored them in some way, and they had also pointed out how Truth Social has considerably more stricter guidelines in place than sources like FB or Twitter when it comes to sharing posts. If you take the time to properly research that and from an unbiased stance, you would find enough evidence to indicate that censorship has indeed (and probably continues to) occured on Trump's Truth Social platform, and I rather doubt right-leaning source the Washington Examiner just conveniently made all of that up-
[washingtonexaminer.com]

Again, the actions of some libertarians/libertarian groups does not automatically reflect the views of all libertarians out there, and your logic there is rather selective. Also, how do you know for certain those sources you cited above are indeed actual genuine libertarians and not someone just posing as such and using that name? A number of possible questions there that have no definitive answer. Bottom line is, no one political or social belief system is without flaws, and I've never pretended or believed that libertarianism is any exception to that. That all said, libertarianism as an ideology is not quite the boogeyman you make it out to be.

One last thing, since you mentioned Trump again... I never did get your thoughts on Trump wearing a mask (referring to image I shared above on one of your other comments) or that fact that he was the one who got the ball rolling on unsafe Covid vaccines, both or which are certainly true and have enough evidence out there to back that up. How convenient you didn't offer a commentary on that much? Guess that means Trump is a socialist in disguise...

@jasonc65 interesting that YOU used that both libertarian & communism are bedfellows. Also, both libertarianism and communism are internationalistic. They both hate nationalism, and both of these ideologies have condescending lessons for third world countries. SOUNDS very globalistic to me

@jasonc65 "In the Congo, resource security is an issue that could be used to rationalize nationalization, much like conservatives here rationalize closed borders. In fact, strictly speaking, closed borders is against libertarianism. Conservativism is adaptive. Libertarianism is strict on everything. I am too realistic to be a libertarian anymore. For me, libertarianism is an ideal, not a strict standard. It is a reasonable ideal. Communism is horrible, even as an ideal. But like communism, libertarianism can lose its way in ideologue behavior. "

sounds like globalist hegemony to me, vs. the nationalist....and your statements are QUITE contradictive, especially on closed borders. AND using an African nation as your convergence focal point.....HA!..."an issue that could be used to rationalize nationalization" LOL

@jasonc65 "an empire filled with George Ayittey neoliberals, we whites would be hating capitalism. Libertarianism is a mess. Biden is Hitler, and Putin is applying Churchill. We must stop the war. It's crazy."

why would whites be hating capitalism?

Who said "Biden was Hitler?"

Who said "Putin is applying Churchill?"

@Weltansicht globalist vs nationalist is precisely the issue in all these countries, including ours. Which is just my point. How am I being inconsistent on closed borders? I am for closed borders. Libertarianism as an ideology is against them. I said Biden is Hitler, From Putin's point of view, Biden is unappeasable.

@jasonc65 MAYBE I misunderstood the statement --> *"n fact, strictly speaking, closed borders is against libertarianism''

@jasonc65 on your "Which is just my point. How am I being inconsistent on..."

By being duplicitious; and not just on "the closed borders".

Did you not say"Conservatism is essentially classical liberalism, recognized as such after liberalism became economic interventionism."*

A classical liberal believes he is free until the law touches him, whereas a conservative believes he is free because the law guards him.

Did you not say: *"I started out as an economic interventionist while Bush was President. I preferred Bush over Kerry because Bush Derangement Syndrome pushed me to the right. Then I was persuaded by free market literature that laissez faire was correct. I was attracted to closed borders libertarians like the ones here. This year's experience has given me a reality check. Libertarianism is not popular in third world countries. Milei is a fluke, and he turns out to be a conservative." YET ~

Economic liberalism opposes government intervention in the economy when it leads to inefficient outcomes. They are supportive of a strong state that protects the right to property and enforces contracts. They may also support government interventions to resolve market failures. <-- from the left wing biased site Wikipedia [en.wikipedia.org]

As for Milei being "a fluke" ~ perhaps your indoctrination has blinded you to the fact that "the people" are getting sick & tired on being oppressed & shackled by government & corporations. THAT the Left/socialists/Marxists/communism WANTS the people to rise up & workers of the world to rise up against the regimes of government (in The Communist Manifesto, I believe it is) YET when the workers DO unite against such tyranny, those same leftists/socialists/Marxists/globalists are THE ONES suppressing such actions of freedom. Such as the Canadian truckers Freedom Convoy and the solidarity of the Americans towards it. [en.wikipedia.org]

Not too mention, the French protests or the Dutch Farmers protests....Milei is HARDLY a fluke.

Your consistent references/analogies to African situations & Lumumba seems indicative that you are a Central African, probably educated indoctrinated as well. Otherwise, you would use a better well known activist's name; i.e. Steven Biko

Your reference to "Then I was persuaded by free market literature that laissez faire was correct. I was attracted to closed borders libertarians like the ones here." is consistent with someone trying to social engineer & manipulate thought processes. Basically, a shill.

@Weltansicht trying to socially engineer thought processes? I see Ghanaian capitalists doing precisely that, by being for markets and also for reparations and Wokeness. Akufo-Addo literally calls for reparations, and he is supposed to represent the African right. Those who socially engineer capitalist thought processes fund communism by the capitalist mode of production. I was fully persuaded that Ayn Rand is absolutely right about everything, and then I am utterly shocked to find out that Milton Friedman is a globalist. Capitalism is evolving into an evil religion where profit by all means necessary is the only principle, and rape for profit is celebrated as progress. The WEF is economically capitalist and politically globalist. The far left notices the capitalist side and hates it. They call it global capitalism and neoliberalism. We notice the globalist side and hate it. Conservatism in the third world is not a fluke, but libertarianism? Unheard of. Libertarians like Chase Oliver are proving to be evil neoliberals.

@Weltansicht the classical liberals are not libertarians. They believed strongly in the social contract. Lumumba was a classical liberal who was maliciously misidentified as a communist. Adam Smith said that his invisible hand theory only applies if the masses have widespread access to capital. Smith supported labor unions. These classical liberals were not as libertarian as we think. Libertarians have no concept of the social contract at all, and the small town Massachusetts disaster is symptomatic of this.

His attempted comparison could best be described as absurd, and grossly lacking in context.

@SpikeTalon I know. I thought so too. Just...it aggravates me in a injustice kick in the arse type thing.

You have ALWAYS been polite to me; SO>>>that provokes me EVEN more....and you always supported & been polite about my gun choice selections (& with encouragement....

For evil to flourish, good people have to do nothing.

stay well my friend....

@SpikeTalon not my attempted comparison. The attempted comparison of other libertarians that invented the meme. I am only spreading the meme.

@Weltansicht I appreciate your kind words, much thanks.

@jasonc65 Those who spread that meme deliberately left out key context...

@jasonc65 I remember 'Operation Warpspeed'....try finding any images on that news conference...

AND I really resent your projection about my 'Weltansicht' with your/vs. your weltanschauung ~ "You were usually in agreement with MAGA on most things: lockdowns, Bill Gates unsafe vaccines, the hateful left, Critical Race Theory, Wokeness, Trump Derangement Syndrome. The list goes on. These were all things you hated. Also, we agreed about imperialism being a liberal agenda. We all agree here that liberal tolerance went too far, but Dave Rubin himself is gay if I recall. We had nothing against gays, we didn't agree with the agenda to force participation. We have humor. We love Dave Chappelle."

You KNOW nothing about ME, as we have HAD no previous interactions BEFORE this post ( that I am aware of) AND so your projections to catalogue & categorize me ARE quite irrelevant....

An astute assessment.
A prominent so-called libertarian here in Canada was simply a single issue person. When that issue was on the table he had no trouble voting for the socialist NDP.
Left-libertarianism is somewhat socialist I find but some of those types, if not most, tend to have a single issue concern - governance and politics seems to be out of their realm of understanding. The anarcho-capitalist is the other side of the libertarian spectrum and a little too extreme for me. At least they are aware of the tyranny that government can be.
I'm a minarchist as I believe there exists some reasons for a nation state; and thus a national government, to exist - Foreign Affairs being one.
The US lost control of their government in the 20th century, starting with the creation of the Federal Reserve - a private banking institution that controls the government's money supply. But I'm sure you are aware of all this and don't need a history lesson from me.

THAT I understand...

I got lectured by one (who had arrested me AT the time), & who was trying to be a delegate of the electoral college in 2000.....supposedly he was at Waco on the frontlines when it happened, ect....tried to recruit me into his "3%" club

I was more impressed by the people at the "Roby Ridge Incident" ~ where I was at ~ [kids.kiddle.co]

[heavy.com]