That is an ever present danger to freedom. Temperance of behavior is all that separates the good from the bad. Until everyone decides to grow up or just keep repeating history.

That is true, people are not helpless if they don't own a gun. I am sure that is equally true that all the people own guns, there are plenty of white collar criminals who don't own guns, and I can think of Dr.Swanko who was a mass murderer and he didn't use a gun.

Are they in the majority? NO, but then WHY are we the law abiding being penalized for the minority's behavior? (And no pun intended on the minority of race or creed!)

@Weltansicht Are you penalized for not owning a gun?

@Lightman why would you be penalized for not owning a gun? you are projecting some delusional fantasy of specious logic

@Weltansicht No, I'm trying to understand what you wrote.

"Are they in the majority? NO, but then WHY are we the law abiding being penalized for the minority's behavior? "

Care to clarify?

@Lightman the criminals, are they in the majority.?.

Besides that, more laws will not help when they do not enforce the ones at present. Passing laws to hinder the freedom of law abiding citizens will just instigate / institute anarchy. If it is not already in the chaos of anarchy.

If you pass these type of laws based upon demagoguery and playing on emotional turmoil, what have you done but passed an agenda of control, but you still have the criminals with the guns, doing the crimes, and no control of them. Then defunding the police when there is already no control of miscreants, borders on insanity and true cognitive dissonance of liberalism.

When it comes down to there is no law enforcement, the only thing stopping some of those militia groups is the respect of the law or fear of it of breaking it. You should consider the movie The Postman and its scenario. No establishment of law in place, the unarmed might become the slaves of the armed marauders.

@Weltansicht The Postman (Costner) nah... fiction not reality...

@Lightman I know its fiction but I said scenario. Then consider reality of Venezuela from the richest most prosperous South American nation, with oil reserves and foreign capital petrodollars accumulations, not to mention their rare elements....and where are they now? If it is so great there, then why are not the illegal migrants going there, its half the distance and certainly not a cultural language either.

@Weltansicht IMO There will be no Postman scenario in the US or any other Western nation.

@Weltansicht Lightman lives in a Socialist Society, He does not nor has he probably ever experienced a FREE Society that not only allows it's citizen to defend themselves, but actually EXPECTS that FROM THEIR CITIZENS!!!!

@Serg97 I hardly call Australia Socialist nor would the US Government.

@Lightman strange, I was under the impression by all the publicity, and the vitriol and diatribes, mostly about gun control but other issues as well - that here in the States - a few years back of some music idol moving to Australia because it was socialist & that she couldn't stand the benefits she accrued by capitalist success and as always of course, celebrities know what's best for everyone else or you are just jealous of their success and want you to live by the means they deem necessary for their followers but they don't have to abide by those same edicts.

@Weltansicht nah never happened. We are not Socialist but we do have sensible gun laws.

@Weltansicht, @Serg97 then your definition of Socialist states is wrong. We have a welfare Net, but we are certainly not socialist.

@Lightman if you say so

[independentaustralia.net]

[abc.net.au]

@Weltansicht ABC are nearly all LW Progressives... they want a Socialist Australia.
IA never heard of it, Matty Clarke never heard of him either. I doubt anyone but his friends actually have.
"Struggling through both mental illness and brain damage as well as failing health, he has earned the respect of his peers and risen to become who he wanted to be — a journalist. He is here today because of the support of Australian journalists and publications who believed in him and it has made him a happy man to become what he always dreamed."
Hardly a good personal reference.
SO also hardly a good selection for reality.
Ps going by IA's articles etc They look pretty Left leaning from where I sit.
Not mainstream leftist either... bad choice I'm afraid.
Oh and the ABC article doesn't support Australia being a socialist state.

@Lightman ah so Google search is left leaning thank you for the verification.

As I said before, if you say so. Not my problem not my country but thanks for your sharing your view from your perspective, but the MSM narrative is....

@Weltansicht depends what you put in to search in the first place... but yes Google is biased towards certain things when you use its search engine... Never heard of adwords?

@Lightman nope never heard of it, I use duck duck go for my personal stuff and safety, but use the Gaggle when investigating everything else...I still have Webcrawler to really throw monkey poo on cookies HAHHAHAHHAAAAA

@Weltansicht Google adwords is the system by which Google search chooses what appears at the top of the search list.