Thanks for giving some attention to the topic. It hasn't been drawing much interest, but it's sort of a 'who are we' topic--kind of important. I've been surprised more haven't jumped in, but it is really complicated. I'll take a look at your new community guidelines.

By the way, there's part of this conversation happening at [slug.com] --near the bottom.

@admin, okay just looking at the topics, I love it so far.

@admin, the horseshoe is sensible. Why is it a humanist view? Why did you choose not to include religion, or is that a separate horseshoe?

@chuckpo My thesis, and the one I want the IDW to consider more, is that the growing demographic divide between the Religious Right and the non-Religious Left (e.g., people under 30 are MUCH more non-religious than before) has to be bridged with a focus on shared values. Fundamental to good people, regardless of their views of the supernatural, is Humanism. Humanism, here defined as "being good to others" is one of the bedrocks of religion, that is, Religion = Humanism + Rules from the supernatural (codified by it's church/etc). There are MANY non-religious people who are sick of Identity Politics, being called "bad" for being white, etc who want to leave the Left but are afraid of the Religious Right (shall I say "Abortion Bans"?). Frankly, the Right, demonizes non-believers as "if they don't believe in a god, they'll believe in anything" idiots. We need a way to carve out the "good non-religious people" from the indoctrinated Left. AND, these good people will be critical in reaching out to the Far Left as they don't have the Pro-Life hammer. (Thanks for the vent).

Your thesis, have gone to the top of my favorite posts thus far. People making assumptions about other peoples views, on topics that garner interest and are considered worthy in that individuals view of further exploration, is at risk of becoming problematic on this site, in my view. also, which is what I am getting out of it.....but that's just my biased opinion, lol

@admin Thats an interesting concept (Humanist Horseshoe). Visually, it implies the "Humanist/Social Extremist" axis has a sliding scale aspect, much like the "Left wing/Right wing" does. The definition of Social Extremists is very helpful in understanding that side; do you have a corresponding definition for the Humanist side?

Also, correct me if I misunderstood, but you seem to regard the "Religious Right" as a specific group. I'm not sure I buy that .... I bet there are religious people scattered all across the Humanist Horseshoe. Not equally distributed, but enough to make the "Religious Right" moniker inaccurate.

It's funny, because recently I was considering the so-called "Left/Right" political spectrum, and I wondered in passing whether a ring/donut might make for a more accurate representation. Did you consider that shape for your thesis?

@jneedler maybe this is why not, lol [images.app.goo.gl]

We should expect civility from people most of the time, but remember that the social contract is broken when certain groups of people are not treated as equal citizens. When that happens, those people have a moral right to use non-civil means to restore their civil liberties. Isn't that what the American Revolution was all about?

@WilyRickWiles yes it is, but not many are ready yet to consider that as the only option and the chaos and blood that must be spent. Many still believe this ship can be righted, which is for many of us why we are here. And it would seem that the only revolution being respresented at the moment, in main stream, is the Anti-American revolution. Which is why, I don't underestimate, nor seek to invalidate any patrotic man's viceral response to these issues. As a matter of fact, if it comes down to it and all talking ends up running its course without satisfactory resolution, there will be only 2 options, submit or fight. I don't plan on submitting and thank God patriots seem more than willing to take the fight to them if necessary. Just hoping it doesn't have to come to that!

@purdyday What is "Americanism" and what does it have to do with being treated as an equal citizen?

@WilyRickWiles I didn't say Americanism, there's one of the SJW 'ism' terms. And as for being treated as an equal citizen, who or what group are you saying are not? Think I already explained my stand, what is not clear is yours.

@purdyday You used "anti-American" as an adjective describing a purported revolutionary political movement. To me that implies an ideology (i.e., an "ism" ) based on some quality of being American, i.e. nativism, rather than one based on universal ideas, like liberalism or republicanism.

Why does it matter what group I am talking about not being treated as equal citizens? They should have the same moral rights regardless of their identity. Would you deny rights from some groups of people?

@Admin i see alot of assuming in your post. How many people on the " far right side of religion" spectrum have you spoken to or vice versa to come come to this conclusion? I myself am excepting of anyone who is the same of me. As with anyone i know.

@WilyRickWiles it is not a purported political movement that seeks to undermine the American Constitution and pervert the Bill of Rights to their own ends. The only Revolution I would compare their actions to is the Russian one. And I deny no one their rights, they have the right to live in any country, as long as they accept that country's laws and respect the culture found there. There are plenty of socialist countries they could choose to live in, if thats what/who we are talking about here, this country happens to be a republic.

@purdyday Last time I checked the Constitution didn't read "you have an obligation to culturally conform," or "it is an act of sedition to break the law," or "you have a right to leave the country," or "you have a right to citizenship in another country." It seems you are the one perverting our founding documents!

@Gerri4321 I grew up in a loving, religious family. I know that the majority of religious people are not imposing their thoughts on others. I am focusing more on how hard-line religious people are seen by those on the Left who are not religious.

@Admin i can see see your view my mother was as i day a bible thumper. But to respond to a post or comment should be self control and self responsibility to some degree. We need or shouls have learned to control our are emotions and respond to thing's at the age of becoming Adults