I don’t spend much time on this page and I’ve been trying to figure out why it doesn’t appeal to me, I am extremely politically engaged, love intellectual debate, and feel a strong need to push back against the SJW culture, by all rights this should be my home. Though I loved engaging on Facebook, I could no longer tolerate the political bias and censorship of right wing personalities, and have recently deleted all other social media platforms (more like a year or so ago), but still haven’t found this site to be a good alternative and I think I know why. It’s an echo chamber. Nearly every user here and every intellectual figure (for the most part) agrees with my worldview and we never see any level of dissent or challenges to our narrative. Perhaps some people like that (though I argue it’s unhealthy and unproductive, and would strongly urge anyone to engage with those with whom they disagree), but it’s not for me. I don’t need a flood of likes and “attaboys”, I want to engage in difficult discussions where I truly need to work to justify my opinions, and reflect on and counter (or accept and adjust my opinion in some cases) the arguments against my view. I guess what I’m trying to get at is that the admins of this page need to figure out a way to market this page to more people of more political persuasion, we are lacking an arena in this society that fosters an environment where people can share their ideas with one another without the narrative being altered by the powers that be, and in my opinion this page isn’t much different. The narrative is predetermined to flow in one direction, and rather than creating that through censorship it’s achieved through merely not attempting to bring in any other perspectives. And that would also subsequently allow us to try and convince others why we are right, and if we truly believe we are correct then we should welcome the opportunity to defend our positions with facts.
Please feel free to challenge me or provide any other feedback, I’d be interested to see where most people stand on this.
Well the problem is two fold:
First, you need to engage in the first place. I have found no one on earth who completely agree with all my views and I have had a lot of interesting discussions here where I disagreed strongly with the majority here... even though I agree with 80% of what is said here.
Secondly, the only left wing writers here are just trolls with the exception maybe of Ricky. HiQ and the others have no interest in actually discussing anything. And they rarely say anything worth reading.
And that bring us to the third problem (OK, three fold then).
Very few people are willing to listen and change their views.
The sole purpose I am here is to test my views and learn from others... constantly evolving my views as my understanding of the world grows.
I have discovered I am a very small minority.
I have found a lot of very educated people are not very smart nor wise, yet they believe they earned the title of Intellectual because they learned the skill to defend Dogma. A real intellectual is excited to learn something new even if it conflicts with what he believed to be true.
I tend to agree with you. I don’t often get on here (primarily when an email lets me know how many new posts have gone up since my last visit), and it does seem to be a bit of an echo chamber. Perhaps the lack of challenging debate has more to do with the possibility of this being a ‘safe space’ for Libertarians and Conservatives, in which we know we’re not going to be called Nazis/racists/homophobes/misogynists for simply expressing our opinions. Although it would be nice to engage with like-minded people, even if we don’t agree on everything. I’ll make it a point to check this site more often, and begin to mix it up a little. Thank you.
I have participated in forum discussions since 1993. The complaints made in the original post about participation have not changed in 26 years.
I do not believe people come to online forums to broaden there intellectual experience. They come to forums for the same reason old men once gathered at barbershops. As social animals we seek social engagement. Just as the old men who once gathered at barbershops we argue politics because it a sport that distracts us from are mundane lives.
Expanding your intellectual horizons is hard work. Like building new muscle it is also painful. You have to destroy your old self a little bit at a time to become the thing you want to be. You are not going to find people with the necessary discipline easily. Like star athletes real intellectuals are going to be the exception.
To have a serious intellectual discussion in the modern world you are faced with the additional problem that as knowledge has expanded so has specialization. In this environment most gifted people are scholars not intellectuals. Even in politics most people will be well versed in only one school of thought. A deep discussion will necessarily require agreement on fundamental principles and focus on the finer points. In the past intellectuals exchanged letters to hammer out the details and that unfortunately remains the best way to carry out a deep discussion. If that is the goal try the personal message system.
go look for users like HighQ, WileyRickWiles and Crikey. These are just the few leftists I have encountered here although I know there a plenty more.
I might be mistaken but I believe the reason it looks like an echo chamber for the right is that there is no censorship going on. Right side people are allowed to say whatever they like and the lefties can't have them censored or kicked off the site. Without "politically correct" police on the site the Lefties tend to be quite less verbose. They really have very weak and in many cases indefensible arguments and they get a lot of push back from Righties...so they tend to stay silent or simply to leave the platform.
I find it to be an echo chamber by the lack of dialogue, not the lack of disagreement. Some trolls have made level 8 by trying to annoy us, then rack up “interaction points” as we attempt to regain our dignity against his accusations.
I’ve posted parallel statements in IDW and Facebook and received more dialogue on Facebook. I love IDW and the potential it offers, but I think most members here would love an emotionless, fact-driven discussion to hone their attitudes and positions.
However, I feel a lot of people just love to post videos which need to be watched in real-time in order to comment. Who has that kind of time? Are they infomercials, trying to find subscribers in IDW? Like you, I want thought-provoking discussions, an environment that I cannot imagine liberals wanting. Let’s all just start doing it and see if it grows!
If admins make it a level playing field where all are welcome, and only some people choose to show up, what is admin supposed to do? They can't change how people select select out of discussions.
There are certain people who simply won't show up to debate and discuss their views because they know their views and values are indefensible and they require an actual echo chamber that censors alternative views. The irony is, if you go to their echo chamber, you likely won't be able to participate freely.
I agree to a certain extent. I do like to come here just to get some uncensored news. I find it kind of a safe place for conservative news. I have grown exhausted from the personal attacks from people on the left on Facebook. You can’t seem to have any kind of debate or opinion that differs from them without the automatic personal attacks. They won’t even entertain any kind of discussion if they think you have a conservative view point. I have even been gang attacked from memes I posted on my wall. One lady freaked out and wanted me to take it off my wall. It was just a meem about climate change.
I like to come here just to know I’m not the only one who sees things differently .
While I agree with a lot of what you said
Invite more people of different ideologies. I invite all people I know. Which is pretty diverse.
Seems anyone who thinks differently, doesn't want to engage. Preciously because they don't censor, and you can actually have a logical debate
Let's face it. Most of the hard left and right. Do not like open debate. Where their belief system is challenged.
Like you I enjoy having my beliefs, and perspectives challenged. It is healthy, and can have positive results
Like affirming ones beliefs, or being able to change. Of presented with the right evidence to support facts.
Facebook is leaning hard left, and censoring people, and that's what people want nowadays.
It's sad, but that's the way it is I guess
Reading the comments here I am seeing many relevant, and correct, push back to my opinion. You all are correct to point out that leftists in general do not want to talk to the other side and don’t care it we’re decent people, they’ll smear us as garbage regardless just to further their own agenda, but we need to be bigger than that. I get the distinct impression talking to fellow conservatives that there is a growing sentiment of “well if you don’t want to talk fine, fuck you too”, and while I understand that and even engaged in it myself, I think it is the wrong course of action. There was a time when the left was the side of inclusion and tolerance while the right was more prone to moral authoritarianism, but as the left gained popularity and subsequent power, they began to rapidly drift into the realm of moral authoritarianism. As that has happened it seems the right has reacted by moving more towards a position of acceptance and inclusion of diversity of thought, and that is a brilliant tactic which will inspire rapid growth in the conservative base if we, the people, continue to work to make this shift known through open dialogue. The left still argues that they are the side of inclusion and diversity but people are waking up to that, even people on the left. I have socialist friends who prefer to only talk politics with conservatives because having an honest conversation in their circles is impossible, any disagreement results in anger and ridicule. On the right I am seeing more and more tolerance to opposing views and ideas, and that is the only diversity that really matters. Superficial diversity is meaningless, we all look different from one another whether it’s tone of skin, complexion, hair color, eye color, some of us put pineapple on pizza and others know that only disgusting wretched filth would consider putting fruit on a pizza, but none of that matters. The only thing that truly matters is who we are as individuals in our minds, and we should welcome those who have different perspectives and work to combine our views to make something that works for everyone.
It's going to be difficult to find someone who disagrees with you that wants to have an intellectual conversation.
Most people who disagree with you don't know how to have an intellectual conversation,they just call you names and make a bunch of unnecessary noise. Not being able to learn from each other cause some are unwilling to have a conversation,is really sad.
No real argument here. I think thats because there no chance of a "progressive" stumbling across discussions here. I find progressives fall into 1 (or more) of 3 categories:
The weak of mind are the innocent sap that have just been surrounded by lies and honestly believe the lies are true. They have no concept of actual reality because they have been fed only lies and have been told opposing views are lies.
The weak of will know it's all BS but lacks the courage to stand up and say so. Their spouse or significant other or parent or sibling is a crazed progressive so they just go along to get along.
The weak of character are the real problem people. These are the leaders of the democratic party who know exactly how to manipulate the first two groups.
I come because there are a lot of alternate news sites I didn't know of, and the topics are not always mainstream ... discussion and debate takes time and effort, most people check in make a comment or view someone else's, but I doubt most have time for deeper discussion and reflection. This medium because it is spotty with most people perhaps not even there to see a comment or response, makes a debate or discussion either too time consuming; over several days or next to impossible ...
Well it looks like you’ve got HighQ’s attention. He is a pro at bashing the US and not agreeing with anything that mirrors conservative values. There’s also another member... Wiley something. Those 2 will keep you busy and on your toes!! Lo!! DING! DING! DING!!! Ready to ruuuummmble!!!
I am going to give this website a try. The good things so far are: I can write a lengthy post and not be committed to a certain number of words in posting, like Twitter. Of course Facebook has been around for quite awhile and has a variety of different things on it's website, but it is getting old and you have to be careful of what you post. I tried Parlor, I think someone was using the site to attack computers, thank goodness that I'm extremely security conscious and don't plan on visiting the site again. So for now, I will visit this site and post here and there and see where it will lead. Patience Grasshopper.
The wool does not fall easily from the eyes of so-called conservatives as they refuse to see that they have been lied to for their entire lives, on the subject of the Nation-State.
As far as I can tell (assuming of course) the general consensus among so-called conservatives is that the criminal Constitution of 1789 is a gift from God, and therefore it is on par with the Bible: sacrosanct.
When faced with the facts that matter in the case these so-called conservatives routinely resort to typical political censorship tactics if they engage the facts that matter in the case at all.
So the shoe is clearly on the other foot as so-called conservatives claim that the Marxists (so-called liberals) have been lied to, and it is those people who face the facts as if the facts were as Kriptonite is to Super Man, but not us conservatives, our foundations are sacrosanct.
I'd say if we read carefully, discerning content, mindset, it may look like agreement but just looks like it.
Like parallel universes, running alongside but not uniting. For me uniting is a very high calling, cannot be pushed or forced or cop out and capitulate.
It's bonding in a thought which greatly empowers the thought. I think of Brian Rose on London Real on YouTube who is about the most positive person I've heard. Some are bonding with his views and it strengthens those views.
But I think maybe I have a glimmer here about your concern. Maybe? Insipid? I wonder if people don't know how to express outrage, anger? Do I? How is it best done. I think it was Stefan Molyneux (did I mispell?) who said free speech will upset others and it is necessary. Maybe we aren't ready for that, or don't know how. One thing I'm leery of and that's being right. There's a difference between being right and being wrong. If I'm not right, I certainly may not be wrong.
I never have all the facts.
At one time I was on a site called TOPIX which I don't think exists anymore. There was good healthy banter back and forth between libs and Americans...lol. I joke, but really believe this! Anyway...recenlty I was on a site that professes Free Speech, called Parler, but when I talked about how the LGBT alphabet soup mafia was the main force against Trump and the source of the lions share of Leftist Trump hate it was not long that my site froze up and was unstable and no more entry to site. The site was the worst I had ever experienced with complicated log in and constant crashes although that may have been part ot their ploy to get rid of me????? So... so much for Free Speech as I see it.
At the risk of being over simplistic, perhaps you might play the "Devil's Advocate" and post a narrative you don't necessarily agree with but for which a tenable defense might be made. It might just attract enough discourse to make this less of an echo chamber and result in more back and forth discourse. You are absolutely right, for the most part, the narrative here is extremely one directional. It needs a bit of spice. With your obvious talent for intellectual debating, I would relish to see you argue the opposite side on certain "hot button" issues. Just a thought.
I feel you are right that there is no counter-voice here. Yet neither is there is the left-leaning think tanks. There needs to be a site where an equivalent discussion takes place. More than anything there needs to be a place where people feel free to express views which the liberal fascists (this is not to say all liberals feel their views should be enforced but there is a strong tendency to) would not allow or would demonise in public. I think it would be good if a portion of the site was opened up to a wider audience to draw in those liberals and force them to encounter another thought view.
What has been forgotten in the wider arena is that there are many routes to a destination and all of them are right. It just depends which route you want to take. In other words tolerance of a wider range of views and philosophies will create a better society and understanding that someone can think differently to you and still be right.
My other issue with the site is that calling itself intellectual excludes many who think they are not. I think this also restricts the postings on this site. Some of the more interesting views I have encountered in my life have been from people who have hardly had any schooling. The idea that education creates a better mind is a poor piece of thinking. In fact modern education channels and restricts thinking because apparently you have to know stuff before you can think. Once stated it is easy to see the idiocy involved in that statement because if this were true then the thinking now would have to be better that the thinking before. If that is the case then why do we keep teaching old thinking?
So I think you have challenged something which I think needs challenging. However please don't throw the baby out with the bath water. This site definitely has use and value but in adding to it, it might be possible to find something that challenges the current unthought attitudes.
"He's a Russian spy!"
Campus anti-free speech riots
Weekly statue riots
Trump rally road blockades
Daily flag burnings
Kids in cages
Atta boy! But, seriously, you've made an excellent point here in that a balance is necessary for good conversation. It would be wonderful to find a platform, a social media platform where there is no censorship, and open conversation is allowed to thrive. Thank you!