21.03.25.0118Th It wouldn't matter if there were 10,000 mass shooting in the last 7 days - it wouldn't diminish the human rights of the individual! 1914 OUT

@1914wizard What about the human rights of the innocents killed in mass shootings... or don't they matter?

Why do american citizens need to own guns?

Because life is not predicated on proving why you need things to other people who don't give a damn about you or your life.

Why do you own a motor vehicle? Far more people have been killed - both intentionally and unintentionally - on an average year than civilian-owned guns do.

@Alysandir So no actual answer gee thanks...

@Lightman

I gave you an answer, just not the one you wanted.

You want people to justify to you why they need a gun, as if their ownership of one was predicated on your approval of their reasons. What I'm saying is that it's not necessary for you to understand - or approve of - why someone wants a gun, nor is necessary for them to try to make you understand.

@Alysandir You did give an answer but it doesn't actually address my question now does it.
Also don't try to be as mind reader... you are not good at it.

@Lightman

Yes, it does answer your question. Now, perhaps if you wanted a different answer, you should've asked a different question.

And yes, we've most certainly established that few people - if any - actually understand what's on your mind when you start talking, given the amount of time you spend berating people.

@Alysandir Losing the argument by posting more personal crap isn't helping you

@Lightman

This is why I like you, Lightman; no matter how little sense you make, no matter how rude you are to people, and no matter how hypocritically you behave, you are always the clear victor in your own mind. It must be a truly amazing life you lead.

Tell you what; I'll sit quietly right here and we'll watch to see who - if anyone - pays any attention to you and gives you the answer that you think your question deserves. And then we'll see if I'm correct, in that no matter what reason that person gives, you'll respond with disapproval and scorn, because you don't think anyone actually needs to own a firearm. It'll be fun.

@Alysandir Oh go away.... if you can't answer a simple question just go away and stop wasting everyone's time with your rot.

I asked 2 simple questions...

Why do american citizens need to own guns?
Now that's out of the way... how did this guy get hold of a gun?

Both of which you failed to answer.

@Lightman

American citizens need to own guns because American's criminals and governments own guns.

He got hold of a gun because guns exist, and he wanted one.

It's not that complicated.

@Lightman

Fine, since you're being your usual dull self, I'll spell it out for you:

Why do american citizens need to own guns?

I'll answer a different question: "Why do American citizens own guns?"

Because they want to. Because they need to. Because the Founders of our country thought it was important. Because some hunt. Because some want to defend their homes from intruders. Because some want to deal with predators on their land harassing their livestock. Because some want to target shoot. Because some are collectors. Because some are investors. Because some have firearms that have sentimental or historical value. Because some simply like firearms. And that's just a small sampling of the reasons why.

IN OTHER WORDS, the same reasons why anyone would own damn near anything.

But your question specifically asked, "why do American citizens NEED to own guns?" which implies that you wanted someone to justify to you why anyone NEEDS to own a gun. Hence my original answer to you: no one owes you - or anyone else - ANY justification or explanation as to why they need a gun and if you insist of having one you can kindly sod off. Neither your approval, nor your understanding, of private gun ownership is important.

how did this guy get hold of a gun?

In isolation, this is an innocent enough question, and the reason I didn't answer this is the same reason you asked it, because this information isn't available to the public yet. Did you really think I was ducking the question, as if I somehow knew this guy on a personal level?

No, of course not. Even as unreasonable as you tend to be, you wouldn't make that assumption.

Coupled with the tenor of your first question, however, it becomes clear what you're really asking: "don't you Americans see a problem with letting a crazy man have access to a firearm?"

And the answer is "yes, there is a problem with people having access to firearms who shouldn't." Mentally ill people shouldn't have guns. Violent criminals shouldn't have guns. Ex-soldiers who were dishonorably discharged from the military shouldn't have guns. And there are pages and pages of laws at the Federal, State, and local levels stating that very fact.

But just as drugs and illegal immigrants pour into the U.S, so do illegal guns. You could literally ban every legal gun in all of North America, and guns would still get in the same way drugs and illegal immigrants do.

Did this lunatic have an illegal gun? No one knows yet. He might've bought it years ago. It might've belonged to a family member. Hell, he might have even used a 3D printer to make one, or have access to a machine shop with a CAD/CAM machine and made it that way.

But where he got it is NOT the important question. People strangely assume that a lunatic with a bellyful of hate has no means to kill people if he has no access to guns. Which is why I asked you to justify why you have a motor vehicle, because that kills more people a year than guns do. Perhaps you even remember the incident in Nice, France back in 2016 where a guy intentionally drove a 19-ton truck into Bastille Day crowds killing 86 and injuring 458 people. Not a gun to be found, which is ironic, because if someone HAD a gun that day, they might've shot him dead before he killed and injured all of those people.

So there's your answers. Which you will now reject and berate me some more about because, hey, why change who you are now?

@Alysandir Not reading your crap.
If you still can't answer the questions I'm not wasting my time.
You are a hypocrite and a moron.
You claim I don't like your answers... hey buddy apparently you don't like or are incapable of answering my questions. so you change them ROTFLMAO
go away and waste someone else's time.

@govols Thank you for your answers.
You have police and the military don't you?
We seem to do fine without the 2nd amendment and some paranoid need for guns here.
Perhaps gun ownership laws need tightening there so that people like him can't access guns.

@Lightman

Yes, and we have an armed citizenry.

You do you.

We'll do us.

@Lightman

I answered you once, and then I answered you a second time in excruciating detail, even though I KNEW I was wasting my time with you.

That'll teach me for actually choosing to respond to you again, I suppose.

@Lightman

You have police and the military don't you? We seem to do fine without the 2nd amendment and some paranoid need for guns here. Perhaps gun ownership laws need tightening there so that people like him can't access guns.

And here you are doing EXACTLY WHAT I SAID YOU'D DO.

Must be very frustrating to be called out on your bullshit before you even commit it.

21.03.25.0111Th @Alexandir, I posted then walked away for just a short time. When I came back (not even sure how I got back to this thread) I find a full on debate with you doing a more admirable job than I could imagine – I’d just walked away in face of such ignorance – you have my kudos!

But when a person can’t recognize an individual’s human boundaries – well it must be something inbred into them like socialists can’t fathom the sovereignty of the individual always defaulting to groups or tribalism. It’s gun control today – it’ll be thought control tomorrow – and how many fingers am I holding up?

1914wizard OUT

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ku·dos

noun

1. praise and honor received for an achievement: "she was looking for kudos rather than profit" 

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@Alysandir Sunshine your blindness to your hypocrisy is mind blowing... if you weren't such a legend in your own mind you might actually see it.

@Alysandir 1/ you did not answer my questions as posted. 2/ you admitted you decided to answer your questions... that is a waste of my time.

@govols have you needed to use this armed citizenry since your civil war?

@Lightman

Yes, yes...I refused to play your game exactly how you wanted it played because I knew precisely what you were trying to do, but somehow this makes me a hypocrite and a moron.

Of course, this comes as little surprise to anyone who actually watches you, because you pull this stunt pretty much every single time. Here's your typical MO:

1. Make comment or ask question.
2. Criticize the person who responds for not understanding what you "really meant."
3. Insult and berate person trying to have a dialog with you while obsessing on unimportant minutiae that's irrelevant to the discussion.
4. Devolve into pure name calling while refusing to continue any relevant part of the conversation.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Folks, anyone else who's reading this, this is what you get with Lightman. You can TRY talking to him, but don't say you haven't been warned.

@Alysandir stop wasting my time like you always do....