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1350 years ago, multiculturalism and diversity was born šŸ¤

Lt-JW 8 Aug 26
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2

The ā€œPā€ in Islam stands for peace

1

I say come on son let's join the Arabian Band and go see the World.

1

I hope no one expects that implementing diversity by our commie trash overlords will be any more merciful. Such people in power have no interest in either fairness or ................anything.

2

The problem for the west today are not the Muslims, its the liberals and globalists. Muslims are simply taking advantage of that. The part with Jonathan Bowden talking about Muslims is interesting.

1

Hate to break it to you, but if you read accounts of rise of Islam, it was not like that at all. For centuries various religions lived together in peace and conflicts that did happen were not exclusive to the different religions. The truth is far more complex. There were violence on both sides, before the Crusades officially begin, and many interactions during crusades, especially first Crusade, resulted in some surprising exchanges. From inter marriages, trade, even high education system was brought over from Islam to the western Europe. While centuries before that Islamic Golden age was based on what was saved and translated from Ancient Greece and Western Roman Empire. Islam had its renaissance centuries before western Europe. Both thanks to combination of their own work and works of the Hellenic civilization.

Judeism, Christianity and Islam are so called Abrahamic religions, meaning they come from same basic ideas. Jeruslem as the Holy City is the place of the Temple Mount.

But if you read about Byzantine Empire you will find similar problems. After all history is written by the victors and also every story has at least two stories. Just read accounts from Christians, Roman Catholics, vs Greek Orthodox Christians and Muslims about the Crusades and you will see what I mean.

I'm not trying to say that arab world did not see its fair share of violence, but so did everyone else. Trying to sum up religion of so many people in so many different cultures over such a long period of time into a cartoon with bulletpoints its like trying to do the same for Christianity. Its an impossible task if you are serious about it.

A Bosnian Muslims, Indian Muslims, Pakistani Muslim, Arab Muslim, Nigerian Muslim are about the same as Croatian Christian, American Christian, Nigerian Christian, Syrian Christian or Australian Christian.

For the sake of simplicity, both Islam and Christianity has each about 2 billion or more followers who self identify as followers of their respective religions. But that is a lot of people. They vary greatly between their devotion to religion, their other interests, their local customs etc.

The cartoon you posted says: 1350 years ago. But there are those who doubt weather the original Arab conquers were Muslim at all.

Channel 4 - Islam - The Untold Story (2012)

Lol channel4 is as much of a cesspit as BBC, CNN, ... if not worse

@Lt-JW "channel4 is as much of a cesspit as BBC, CNN"

That is true. I agree. They were not always such though. Especially BBC.

Either way, I would not say this particular program is. Including the author and his book on this topic that is essentially presented as video here. Give it a try and judge on your own merit.

Or you can read the book, instead of video. Educate yourself. Don't judge historic events based on memes.

Islam: The Untold Story is a documentary film written and presented by the English novelist and popular historian Tom Holland. The documentary explores the origins of Islam, an Abrahamic religion that developed in Arabia in the 7th century and criticises the orthodox Islamic account of this history, claiming that the traditional story lacks sufficient supporting evidence. It was commissioned by the British television company Channel 4 and first broadcast in August 2012. Its release followed the publication of Holland's In the Shadow of the Sword: The Battle for Global Empire and the End of the Ancient World (2012), which also discussed the rise of the Arab Empire and the origins of Islam.

Adopting the theories of the academic historian Patricia Crone as a basis, Holland claimed there was little hard evidence for the origins of Islam and asked why it took several decades after the death of Muhammad for his name to appear on surviving documents or artifacts. Arguing that there was little evidence for how the faith was born, he suggested that the city of Mecca may not have been the real birthplace of Muhammad and Islam. While not disputing Muhammad's existence as a real historical figure, he posited that much of the Islamic origin myth to have been later developed in the early years of the Arab Empire.

The documentary proved controversial. Mainstream media reception was mixed, but it provoked criticism from figures within the United Kingdom's Islamic community who argued that Holland ignored evidence supporting the orthodox account of early Islamic history. Government-approved regulatory authority Ofcom and the broadcaster Channel 4 received an estimated 1200 complaints regarding the program.[1] Fearing violent retaliation from militant Muslims, Channel 4 cancelled a public screening of the documentary at their London headquarters.

Islam: The Untold Story deals with the origins of the religion Islam. Travelling to Saudi Arabia, Holland visits Arabian Bedouins to hear their orthodox Islamic accounts of the religion's origins. Holland then talks to Seyyed Hossein Nasr, a practising Muslim who teaches Islamic studies at the George Washington University, Washington D.C., and Patricia Crone, a non-Muslim historian of Islamic history at the Institute for Advanced Study, Princeton. The former defends the orthodox Islamic account of the faith's history, citing its development within oral history, but Crone challenges the reliability of oral history, and therefore the traditional account.
Holland suggested that Mecca (pictured) was not the home of Muhammad

Holland looks at the earliest evidence for Muhammad, Mecca and Islam in the first century of the Arab Empire, pointing to a lack of evidence in the historical record to support the traditional account. He points out that there is almost no contemporary historical evidence about the life of Muhammad, with no mention of him at all in historical texts until 70 years after his death. He states that contrary to Islamic doctrine which says Islam was behind the creation of the Arab Empire, Muawiyah I became leader of the Arab Empire in Jerusalem 30 years after Muhammad's death despite showing little sign of being Muslim, and that no mention of Muhammad or Islam can be found in any of Muawiyah's inscriptions, coins, or documents.

Holland proceeds to note that with the exception of a single ambiguous reference in the Qur'an, there is no mention of Mecca in any datable text until a century after Muhammad's death. He points out that in the Qur'an, the Prophet appears to address farmers and agriculturalists while his opponents are described as keeping cattle and growing olives and vines. This appears to describe an environment foreign to Mecca, where there was no agriculture; thus Holland posits that the location attributed to Mecca in the Qur'an more closely fits a city in the Negev desert, in what is now southern Israel.

Holland suggests that under the reign of Arab Emperor Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan, Mecca was intentionally yet erroneously portrayed as Muhammad's home and the birthplace of Islam in order to provide the religion with Arabian origins. Holland argues that in doing so, the faith was dissociated from the Jewish or Christian heritage that would have been self evident at a location in the Negev.

[en.wikipedia.org]

@Krunoslav

Life is too precious to waste it on any production made by those TV stations.

@Lt-JW Suit yourself.

1

The once and future multiple choice.

1

Caught between a rock and a hard place!

sqeptiq Level 10 Aug 26, 2022
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