then you are an idiot.... Babbit was shot dead at almost point blank range by a hiding armed figure, who could simply have arrested her.

@Lightman what does this have to do with the YouTube comments claiming she was a crisis actor and it was all staged?

@JacksonNought Oh yeah she staged her own death... I suppose you still believe Russian collusion was behind Trump too eh....

^You are an idiot.... Babbit was shot dead at almost point blank range by a hiding armed figure, who could simply have arrested her.

I agree, there was no need for the insurrection to happen.

@JacksonNought there was no insurrection...

@Lightman an insurrection doesn't have to be successful to still be considered an insurrection. So yeah, there was one.

@JacksonNought nah, just a bunch of angry tourists...

@Lightman yep, nothing but tourists breaking windows and smashing barriers and beating cops and threatening to kill members of Congress and trying to stop a Constitutional election process from taking place because they were upset at who won.

@JacksonNought yet Trump was still speaking to his loyal supporters up the road.... these were a rabble not armed insurrectionists you don't go to an insurrection unarmed you dope... that woman was shot dead for no reason other than she was at the front of the line coming through a barracade due to the surge behind her and some trigger happy dope shot her dead. Was she armed? a danger? No she wasn't. Just in the wrong place at the wrong time...

@JacksonNought Five people died Jan. 6, 2021, including a U.S. Capitol Police officer, when a mob violently invaded the U.S. Capitol in protest of the November 2020 election results.
Mind you the police allowed them entry to the Hill.
The police officer who died died of a heart attack no bullet wounds or a stabbing etc... Four other people died during the attack at the heart of American democracy as mob members vandalized the building and assaulted police officers. One woman was fatally shot by police and three people died of apparent medical emergencies. She was shot at point blank range the officer involved could simply have grabbed her and arrested her.

@Lightman what are "arms" exactly? First, yes, people did have guns. There were also pipe bombs found. Also remember the horned nutjob carrying a spear? Using American flags to beat people and destroy camera equipment? So are bombs and spears not arms?

Trump actually told his loyal supporters to go to the Capitol and demand Pence do something he didn't have the power to do, and Rudy demanded trial by combat. The insurrectionists also were waving Trump flags, including replacing the American flag with a Trump flag, and they are on video saying Trump and other Republicans would approve of their actions.

Babbitt was trying to break windows and trespass. She was climbing over the mob to get in. There were officers pointing guns at her and demanding she stop. She didn't comply. She had a violent past, and make it clear on Twitter what her intentions were. She was not just some innocent bystander in the crossfire.

@JacksonNought The pipe bombs were not found at capital hill, as for guns... you people are all entitled to be armed FFS.... As for the horned nutjob with a spear... now you are being stupid... did he gore or spear anyone... ??????????
You want to post Trump's speech? Point out exactly where he demanded violence? No?
As for people thinking others would approve... well what a vacuous claim that is...
Babbitt was in a hallway shot at point blank range by an idiot with a gun who should simply have arrested her... did you not see it?

@Lightman now you are moving goalposts, walking back claims, putting words in my mouth, and flat out lying.

@JacksonNought No I'm not.... not at all... stop lying and address reality

@Lightman oh really?

LM: not armed insurrectionists you don't go to an insurrection unarmed
JN: people did have guns
LM: you people are all entitled to be armed

You don't live in reality.

@JacksonNought LOL idiot they weren't armed for an insurrection you fool, not all of them were armed and none of them used their personal arms to shoot anyone except the officer that murdered the girl.
Who doesn't live in reality... YOU DON'T YOU IDIOT.
What I wrote is completely accurate, you are delusional.

@Lightman your original point was that they weren't armed so it wasn't an insurrection. I pointed out that they were armed, both with guns melee weapons. You then pivoted to there were allowed to be armed and the melee weapons were a joke. So, as I said, shifting the goalposts. You also don't need to be armed to engage in an insurrection.

You are sissyt flat out lying about the circumstances of Babbitt. There's video. We saw what happened. There's also a paper trail. Anyone can see it.

@JacksonNought Oh dear you are thick... was it an armed insurrection? Were weapons used? No...
You crapped on about a guy wearing a horned costume carrying a spear FFS.
How much denial is there in your little head?
I saw what happened to Babbit you idiot, she was shot dead needlessly.

@JacksonNought Kingsley v. Hendrickson, 135 S. Ct. 2466, 2473-2474 (2015). This is an objective standard – the force must be objectively unreasonable when viewed from the standpoint of a reasonable officer at the scene. Here, Babbitt was unarmed, was climbing through a window and not attacking anyone. In response, she is shot and killed. Easily excessive.

@Lightman and I already said, yes some of the insurrectionists did have guns. And bringing a spear is being armed. Whether the weapons were used against people doesn't change whether or not it was an insurrection. Building gallows and shouting "hang Mike Pence" and breaking windows and breaking barricades to storm the Capitol in an attempt to overturn an election and stop democracy is quite literally an insurrection - an attempt to overgrowth the government.

Yes, Babbitt was trying to climb through a broken window into the Capitol. Police had guns on her and demanded she stop multiple times. She didn't comply. Her Twitter feed was basically a suicide note of her willingness to die to support Q craziness. If you ever excuse police killings of Black men for resisting then you have no leg to stand on here.

@JacksonNought At the very worst Babbit should have been arrested for disorderly conduct nothing more. Instead she was killed. You support that, you excuse that, you are one sick puppy.

@Lightman I never said I supported Babbitt's killing. In fact, I have stated before that I did not, and she shouldn't have been killed. Doesn't change the fact that she was participating in an insurrection.

Do you support what happened to George Floyd? Or Breonna Taylor? Or Michael Brown?

@JacksonNought Oh for god's sake grow up...
I think Floyd was a criminal who failed to comply...

@Lightman Babbitt was a criminal who refused to comply.

@JacksonNought George Floyd was a criminal that refused to comply... gee what a good point.
She wasn't asked to comply she was just shot dead.

@Lightman and here you exhibit just how blind your bias makes you, and how controlled by identity politics you are. Babbitt was quite literally a criminal, she had multiple run-ins with the law, and was arrested for attempted murder once. She was trying to break through the Capitol windows with a mob of angry Trump supporters behind her. The officers shouted at her to stop, she refused. She was given orders, she didn't comply. She and Floyd are exactly the same.

@JacksonNought I'm not biased I have no skin in the game stupid. I call it as I see it... in fact as it is. You on the otherhand are well known here for your biased opinions.
He was hiding in a doorway, she was in the buliding in a hallway, he had her in his sights well before she even got through the hole which btw she never did, and shot her at point blank range... you cannot here any warnings on the video, he did not confront her, he killed her needlessly... George floyd didn't comply for over 15 minutes.. how dumb are you?

@Lightman Babbitt was in a group of insurrectionists breaking windows and trying to break through a barricade. Their intent was to break in and get to members of Congress, most likely to kill them and install Trump as their dictator. You hear in the video multiple times that there is a gun, and warnings to get back. There are even officers behind trying to get the mob away. They didn't comply, they kept breaking through. Babbitt was in the process of climbing through a broken window when she was shot. She had posted her intent on Twitter earlier. She knew what she was doing. She was a criminal, in the middle of a criminal act, refusing orders. This is perhaps a bit more serious than someone being accused of having a counterfeit $20 bill and having the full force of a human body pressing on their neck for over 9 minutes.

@JacksonNought Oh for goodness sake seek help will you.... talk about biased nonsense??????????????

@Lightman yes, talk about biased nonsense. You are twisting yourself into knots to lie about what happened and paint a false narrative that she was some innocent bystander who had no idea what was happening. You make it seem like she was minding her own business on a normal non-eventful day when some scary man leapt out of the shadows and shot her for no reason. The video is clear as day, and we all know what happened. And you claim to have no skin in the game, but are getting so worked up that no one is buying your bullshit.

And yet, I actually agree with you! Despite committing a treasonous act, which typically is punishable by death, I agree that there was no reason for her to have been killed, and there were plenty of other ways they could have stopped that particular mob without lethal force.

Where we differ though is that I am morally consistent. You seem to be all rah rah back the blue when someone who doesn't share your political leanings is gunned down, but when someone you align with is shot, the police are suddenly dangerous jackbooted gestapo. It's not surprising, it is pretty typical of people on the right side of the aisle. Sean Hannity spent days trying to paint George Floyd as being worse than Hitler, and yet when a Conservative man ran over two police officers while resisting arrest for breaking COVID restrictions, Hannity had him on his show the next day hailing him as a hero. So I guess I am not surprised by your hypocrisy.

So again, both Floyd and Babbitt were victims of unnecessary force by police officers, and neither should have happened. But being accused of having a counterfeit $20 bill and being slowly killed with a knee on your neck for over 9 minutes is probably not as bad as being shot while trying to break through a window to commit murder. I'd say Babbitt is more like Casey Goodson Jr.

@JacksonNought lol stop wasting my time you deluded fool... I have said the same thing from the very start.... she was shot dead unnecessarily... there was no armed insurrection... if you like you can consider the BLM Protests more of an insurrection than what happened on capital hill...

@Lightman and you are wrong, because it was an insurrection. End of discussion.

@JacksonNought Call it what you like... you keep ignoring everything else except the one word... shows just how idiotic you are.

@Lightman keep talking out of your ass about things you have no idea about, Aussie.

You mean like George Floyd? He was a violent thug. I bet you only hate Ashli because she's not your side, if she was a lefty you'd be bending over backwards to defend her

Pathetic Jackson, simply pathetic.

@Tom81 hey, turnabout is fair play. If the Right-Wing can dig into Floyd's past and say he had a criminal history so it is justified for him to be murdered over a $20 bill, then why can't we dig into Babbitt's past and show she had a criminal history and so it is justified for her to be murdered for trying to break into the Capitol?