Edited
[townhall.com]
Even Conservatives need to be careful about falling into Lefties language traps by using terms like "Your truth" or "my truth". There is no such thing. There is only Truth. Remember during the campaign when Biden said "we choose truth over facts"? He was talking about "his truth" not "the truth".
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.I would be careful going down the truth path. Truth is distinct from fact. Facts are those things that have strong empirical evidence. Truths are more elaborate and abstract. For example the truth for Catholics is that Catholicism is the one true religion but the majority of people would not agree with that truth. Another example would be "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”. The only empirical evidence there for that statement is the relative superiority of governments that function under that belief system in providing for the well-being of all of it's citizens. There is however no evidence that even equality before the law is achievable. Ideals are always abstract and can never be realized.
Even facts have to be qualified. For example Newtonian physics is factual within the limitations of it's practical application but are insufficient when dealing with reality at tiny scales such as those that quantum mechanics addresses. Truths because they are abstract tend to lose their meaning when qualified.
I like to say there are no non trivial truths. Truths depend on a shared understanding among those that hold them. Once there is a shared understanding they become trivial in the sense of self evidence. What that means is they are factual given the complex and abstract social context in which those that hold them experience reality.
The reason that people object to subjective truth is not that truths are actually self evident but that a society becomes dysfunctional without them. To understand this you first have to understand that abstraction are real. For example money is entirely abstract and has no actual value. That said the lack of money has a reality that is manifested in physical consequences. To understand this you have to realize that all thought is abstract or representative and approximate. By extension all languages are abstract. An example is the language of mathematics. The simple concept of one is entirely abstract. There is no one thing that is not divisible or meaningful outside of relationship to other things. Like money however mathematics are a powerful tool in negotiating with and within physical reality.
In the past religion played an important role in bridging physical reality and abstract socially constructed reality. It's why secular ideologies take on religious overtones. A society cannot function without shared truths. While the reality is that our limited experience and intellectual capacity technically preclude the existence of absolute truths we cannot function in the world without faith. We also cannot function without approximate facts. Without faith or facts we would be paralyzed. A society without a shared faith or facts becomes paralyzed. Constructive cooperation and emotional stability have become increasingly impossible as shared truths become rare.
wolfhnd
Level 8
July 19, 2021
1
Yes. This distinction is well understood in the world of science. Science distinguishes from data and theory.
In the Army, it's "weapon" or "piece". Never "gun".
In the Navy it's "ship" or "vessel". Never "boat".
In science there is theory and data. Never truth.
If someone uses the word "truth", tell him to shove it up his ass.
Bruce Lee: Avoid the vague.
Freeman Dyson: I'd rather be wrong than vague.
There is only "specific" or "vague". There is no such thing as "right" or "wrong".
Wolfgang Pauli: A theory that is vague is "not even wrong".
I'm not really sure what you are trying to say with all that but it seems like a very wordy roundabout way of saying "there is no such thing as objective truth". I believe there is. Jesus spoke a lot about truth and said to Pontius Pilate "I came to bear witness to the truth." Pilate asked Him "what is truth?" Jesus gave him no answer, not because He didn't have an answer, but I think because He knew that any answer would be useless to that closed mind.. But earlier when He prayed for His disciples at the Last Supper He said" sanctify them with Thy truth, Thy word is truth.
I want to meet people halfway on this.
As I pointed out we have to have faith and truths to function in the world and for society to function. Mostly that means we have to have faith in ourselves and others. Truths are similarly necessary not because of knowledge but the lack of knowledge. In other words truth has to be tempered with humility.
Many of my scientific acquaintances have a hostility towards religion. Most likely a hangover from historical persecution, suppression an violence by religions. Personally I have no animosity towards the religious. While I believe scientists should debate religious texts they often counter with scientific truth. I feel it is the wrong tactic as it opens them up to being secular religious. What they often seem to miss is the nature of abstract reality. The nature of social organization, language and thinking tools. Our window into reality is sensual. The tools we use to extend our sense include instruments but also abstract tools such as mathematics. Most of these tools are narrowly focused high resolutiom or reductionistic. The world however is a complex chaotic system. To deal with it we need broadly focused low resolution tools. As far as I know we don't have any.
There is a lot of confusion over the terms objective and subjective. Objective means the thing itself without regards to the limitations of the observer and subjective means the experience of the observer. All I'm saying is the thing itself is invariably too complex to be experienced in it's totality.
As with everything in life it is a matter of degrees of objectivity. Observation is always subjective because it depends on the frame of reference of the observer. In so far as the observer is limited both sensually and intellectually objectivity is relative.
The problem you pointed out has less to do with the nature of truth than with the failure of people to competently negotiate their truth within the social framework. While they seem to be saying that truth is subjective what they are really saying is you must accept my truth. It's little different than a Catholic claiming the one true Christian religion. Their logic defeats their own political argument as they refuse to accept your truth as equal valid.
The liberals are not wrong in arguing for a universal truth for social harmony the problem is they have been proven incompetent in the implementation of their truth. The facts as best we can define them call into question the practicality of their truth. History shows us that for the most part government should run on facts and truths should be reserved for the realm of abstraction. The truths we hold to be self evident have to be nearly universally agreed on in the abstract in a functional society.
The most important truth the liberals can't rap their heads around is the abstract reality of freewill. Like the socialist
You can break out of the objective/subjective paradigm by thinking in terms of sensitivity. Of resolution. If you build a scientific instrument that has more resolution than any previous instrument, then you will likely make new discoveries.
Improve the quality of your perception.
Improve your theoretical framework for interpreting perceptions.
The Shadow: The clouded mind sees nothing.
An example is computational physics. We want to know what's happening inside the sun but we can't perceive it directly. We have to simulate it on a supercomputer. The art of computational physics is the rigorous process of designing a simulation that captures the reality.
Since we can't go inside the sun, should we give up and declare it unknowable? Bull!
@jaymaron
You need to be careful not to confuse the terms Leftist and Liberal Leftists like to pretend that are one and the same but the truth is that they are almost exact opposites. Liberals are like Roosevelt Harry Truman and JFK. These men would be tarred and feathered and fitted with cement overshoes and dropped into the ocean by today's Leftist Democrats, For a good illustration of the enormous difference you can go to the Pager U website and look up the 5 minute video Left or Liberal. I may look it up again and post it just for grins.
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