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I cannot accept benevolent or any other dictatorship. Neither will the rich vanish nor will the poor be protected. Some rich men will certainly be killed out and some poor men will be spoon-fed. As a class the rich will remain and the poor also, in spite of dictatorship labeled benevolent. The real remedy is non-violent democracy, otherwise spelt true education of all. The rich should be taught the doctrine of stewardship and the poor that of self-help. (H, 8-6-1940, p. 159)
I call myself a communist also….My communism is not very different from socialism. It is a harmonious blending of the two. Communism as I have understood is a natural corollary of socialism. (H, 4-8-1946, p. 246) from, The Mind of Mahatma Gandhi: The Communist Creed.

Were any of you ever taught this about Ghandi? I just learned this recently when researching South Africa, which is where his activism began. I wonder how accepted he would be today?

TomLeVasseur 6 Apr 30
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The following is a short documentary on the cycle civilization the part that most people refer to as socialism or communism is merely the collapse stage.

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Socialism/Communism/Islamic theocracy are demonstrably the most oppressive, deadly, destructive, soul crushing ideologies ever devised. They are by definition and out of pure necessity despotic and authoritarian in practice. Necessarily so because no sane person would ever agree to be oppressed and subjected to authoritarian rule which, again is exactly what socialism/communism/islam are. The nature of man is to live autonomously - free - with liberty to prosper and we try to find a workable balance between individual liberty/autonomy and a way to live in cooperative participation with society at large. Democracy itself in a purist application is also oppressive because it really boils down to a condition of majority rule - 51% of a purely democratic society can and will foist its whishes and whims upon the remaining 49%. Hence the wisdom in devising a representative republic with open elections and an electoral college. Leftists in USA today are crying loudly for an end to the electoral college. Believe this. They would NOT like the resulting look of things once USA became a true and pure "democracy" ie; Majority Rule- USA founding fathers spoke of this as a "tyranny of the majority". But I digress. I don't know you and I don't really know where you live but I can be almost certain that you never lived under a Socialist/Communist Regime. In theory those things sound all benevolent and kind. In practice they are evil and there are at least a billion dead humans piled high upon the altar of Marxist ideology over the last 90 years - give or take.

iThink Level 9 Apr 30, 2019
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Coincidentally, I was just talking about dictatorships, monarchies, various systems in their pure forms. Dictatorship is quite possible the best system ONLY in the case your dictator is pure (imagine Jesus, haha). Here's why: You have no other power-centers to complicate things with self-interest. Of course, history shows us that all economic or organization structures are flawed because of bad actors. The best we can do is have a system with many checks and redundancies--no single point of failure. Dictatorships have a single point of failure. No matter how benevolent your dictator is, you don't know what happens in succession, and all of the rules are set into place. You're left with the bad, as well as the good. What do you think? Does that sound plausible?

I've never seen socialism/communism work as well as even capitalism in practice. Socialists like to cite countries in Europe that are HIGHLY homogeneous across multiple factors, so I don't know how that system even works in the USA with our diversity across just about every factor.

I think this is mainly a Ghandi post, and I just don't know enough about Ghandi to comment. But, I do tend to look for extraordinary sacrifice as being worth looking at. A lot of people say they're different while doing the same ol' thing. FEW people actually ARE different.

chuckpo Level 8 Apr 30, 2019

I never thought of it that way, but have to agree with your points sounding plausible. I also know little of Ghandi but when researching SA and the killing of white farmers, and apartheid became the topic, I saw his name. I've read Marx but when I heard Zizak describe his brand of Socialism, which Peterson described as a strange Socialism, and Ghandi describe his the similarities we're striking.

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American Founding fathers tried to create perfect Constitution by looking at Anciet Athenian direct democracy model and the Ancient Roman Republican model sadly it seems they have failed. Direct democracy is just the Cities telling country folk how to live lives. We need to find a better way

Why do you think they have failed?

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I believe his take is associated moreso with the idea of personally not being attached to material or property. Relative to the idea of communism being a state of non-private property.

But, rather, all property and means of production being owned and controlled by the oligarchy is an issue I highly doubt Ghandi would represent.

Did I miss the point here or was this an acceptable response?

Yes, I really didn't know this about him. He did speak always in favor of non violent resistance, but did not deny the inevitability of conflict. Damn, I'm 60 and so much to learn, ha.

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