No, the leader of the House GOP in VA, making the statement above, has an A+ rating from the NRA. He does not confuse pro 2A people with "white supremacists."

We all know what a white supremacist is, despite some media nonsense on the fringes. It seems to be a willful confusion on the right that because the fringe left broadened the term, there is therefore no such thing, and we can have the Klan marching around our state capitol and that's not a problem.

@damo9f anecdotal examples do not make for a winning argument of your position. BTW, the Klan (may the rot in hell) do have a 1st amendment right to assemble and to demonstrate and to march just like antifa, black panthers, the socialists/Bernie supporter, Trump supporters etc. You and I in all likelihood have shared opinions on the Klan but apparently we differ on 1st amendment rights. eh?

@iThink Not at all. I was merely responding to your assertion that the "fake news media" and Dems will "label pro 2A people as white supremacists." Instead we have good news media coverage of a staunch 2A defender calling out white supremacists as the scum they are.

The media is doing fine. I think the "fake news media" accusation may be more anecdotal.

I support freedom of speech and don't think I implied otherwise above.

There's no massacre. The 2nd Amendment protests started before anyone knew what bills would pass. The bills passed have something like 65% approval in the state.

• Background checks before selling guns (remember we had VA tech shootings and others by mentally ill people)

• Red Flag laws where if you have a crazy stalker threatening someone, you take their guns away. This happened to a friend's daughter. It's pretty bad, because you can't keep some crazy stalker in jail or a mental institution forever.

• One gun per month. VA has a problem where people buy large quantities, and sell them in NY and other states to criminals.

None of this is nutso. No assault weapon ban. No registrations. No gun-grabbing.

@damo9f

Background checks before selling guns (remember we had VA tech shootings and others by mentally ill people)

"ummm- we already have that. It's called filling out the form 4473."

Red Flag laws where if you have a crazy stalker threatening someone, you take their guns away. This happened to a friend's daughter. It's pretty bad, because you can't keep some crazy stalker in jail or a mental institution forever.

""Red Flag" law is impractical because it is very suceptible to being abused. Don't like your neighbor? Report him as a threat and watch as the "authorities" come and take his guns...don't like your daughters boyfriend, want to get back at your Ex?...bad idea Red Flag laws - very bad."

One gun per month. VA has a problem where people buy large quantities, and sell them in NY and other states to criminals.

"Beside the fact that there is NO restriction on number of arms a person can own, possess or buy at any given time there is the FACT that to buy even a single gun (retail) for anyone except the person filing a Form 4473 is an illegal act not to mention the act of selling them in NY without filing a 4473 would be a serious crime already."

@damo9f of course it started before the bills were passed. You Virginia idiots think you can pass laws to usurp the constitution. Talk about supremacists, hell y'all need to look in the mirror. You've got a freaking blackface governor, a lieutenant governor who is accused of sexual assault and your attorney General also wore black face so who are the real white supremacists??

@Dmwils Well, the real white supremacists are guys like Richard Spencer, who has an illuminating speech on race here: [soundcloud.com].

Background checks to avoid terrorists, domestic abusers, mentally ill people, felons etc. buying guns are not un-constitutional or extreme. That's why in VA where there is a pretty good split between liberal and conservative, about 88% of people support background checks, including 80% of Republicans.

@iThink My understanding is that you can buy guns without any limitation or form 4473 at gun shows from the non-dealers there. Also that the 4473 does not prevent a straw purchaser or criminal arms dealer from buying many guns, if the straw purchaser does not have one of the (rare) disqualifying items. So if you have 10 people with felony records or similar, and want 10 illegal guns, you can get one straw purchaser to buy them all - or you can just go to a gun show and buy from the non-dealers there.

True?

@damo9f if the people who operate the gun shows were to catch someone at the show selling firearms illegally they would immediately remove them or have them removed from the grounds where the show is operating.
The "illegal sales and transfers of guns" at Gun shows narrative is a red herring as the saying goes. There is no such thing as a "gun show loop hole".
The vendors/sellers at tat gun shows are very honest and compliant to the law when they set up and make sales at Gun Shows.
The Gun Show operators themselves have little or no control over what may go on in the parking lot or down the block but I can assure you they would never allow illegal transactions to go on on the premises where the show is being held.
"Straw purchasing of firearms" is itself a violation of the law. For example I can not walk into a gun store and buy a gun for anyone else - not even for my wife or my son or the Pope.
The problem is not at the point of retail sales of guns - the problem is what becomes of a gun after it has been legally purchased. Some get stolen, others do get sold or traded privately and that does open a window of opportunity for bad stuff to happen with regard to the gun itself. I am not sure how that might be controlled or mitigated except perhaps imposing harsh penalties on those in illegal possession of a firearm...or something along those lines.
I am 68 years old and I have been a "shooter" since I was about 14. I have never made and illegal sale or purchase of any gun.

@iThink I would not think you ever made an illegal purchase - that's not my point.

Private sellers can sell at gun shows, or anywhere else, and do not need to make the buyer fill out a form 4473.

Here's an article I just googled on this: [opb.org] .

Sure, it is illegal to do a straw purchase. But people do it all the time, and nobody is going to investigate you just because you bought 10 guns. Nobody will check if you then sold them all to MS-13 vs keeping them at home in your gun safe. That's why these bills at least limit the sales per month - that way the flow of guns to criminals (not to you) is reduced, and they would need to recruit 10 straw purchasers instead of just the one.

@damo9f the point of my remarks was that the so called "gun show loophole" is non existent. Yes a person who owns or has possession of any thing at all including a gun of any kind can sell, give or trade that item completely out of the purview of gov't. Not much can be done about that. Whatever is done must be done legally and that legal action must fall within the limitations established by the US Constitution. So called straw purchases do happen but I submit they do not happen at gun shows.

@iThink Do you think straw purchases are done in bulk, by people who buy a number of guns, and therefore do you think the new limit of one gun per month will reduce straw purchase quantities?

@damo9f
I am not sure what it is you are calling a "straw purchase". I believe illegal sales of firearms goes on all the time and there is no reason to think "bulk" sales do not happen as often as single item sales. Nevertheless, Gun Shows are NOT places where illegal sales and transfers of firearms takes place.
Retail gun shops also are not places for that kind of activity to go on. A shop owner, a legally licensed firearms dealer/retailer not only stands to lose his business but certainly stands to lose his freedom if he were to engage in illegal sales and transfers of firearms.
I do not deny there are criminal activities afoot regarding sales of firearms but the solution to that is NOT to confiscate firearms - which is Constitutionally prohibited in the first place.
I do believe that if in an extremely rare case where someone goes to a legally licensed dealer and buys "bulk" quantities of guns (like never probably) the FBI would deny that sale pending further investigation. Of course I am assuming that you know about how that process works - buyer fills out a form 4473 for each gun being sold or transferred then the FFL dealer calls the FBI and relays the info the buyer put on the form along with the type of gun and the serial number of that gun and the FBI gives a decision on whether or not that sale can proceed. It's called the NICS process. Certainly a bulk purchase would raise flags and FBI would put a delay or denial on such an application.
The problem is with people who work outside the legal limitations on sale and purchase of guns.

@iThink We seem to be talking about different things. In Virginia, the laws passed have nothing to do with gun shows or confiscating guns.

There is a one gun per month limit, so that people can't buy a bunch of guns and turn around and sell them illegally as easily as they used to.

Also a red flag law for various criminals or people with mental conditions, restraining orders, etc.

Finally, background checks for everyone. Some transfers did not require a check, but now they will.

All good?

@damo9f

I think we understand each other but I'm pretty sure we don't agree on some of it...we're good. LOL

We suck. Every one of us. How dare we decide to be white. And the worst ones chose to be men! We should be ashamed of ourselves.

@Daveclark5 We? Im not white, Im actually American-European...typical white person.

Sorry. I guess that’s another problem with us dumb crackers; we can’t even tell if somebody else isn’t white. Shame on us

@Daveclark5 The BLM is very confusing to me...arent all lives made of "matter"? or I guess the concept of life would be subjective.. so no lives are made of matter. Maybe black bodies matter would be more of an appropiate term

You mean a liberal running around dressed like a Klansman beating or shooting people?

Pretty low actually.

I don't know why this is difficult for people to engage with, but violent white supremacist groups are actually 1) violent and 2) target non-whites. That's actually what "violent white supremacist" means. They are not "fine people."

I can't believe I'm here on an IDW site trying to explain why "Nazis are bad" to you .

Hello damo9f. I think it's all about mindset. Rightists find it hard to recognise far-right and leftists find it hard to recognise far-left. Not all of them, mind you. That's my take, anyway.

@damo9f
That’s quite a list of assumptions about me. I agree, "Nazis are bad"! LOL
I’m not a Trump supporter or a Hillary/Biden/Warren/Sanders fan. I’m not even American.
I do think that if you talk to Trump supporters without so many assumptions, you will be hard pressed to find any that do not know what a member of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party is, and I am equally certain you will find it difficult to find one who does not agree that "Nazis are bad"!

Perhaps, it’s time to look past the politically induced vote harvesting "us versus them" artificial paradigm.
You may find that people on every side want the same things you do: peace, equality, prosperity, freedom, friendship, love. Differing opinions on how to achieve these goals do not make people your enemies.

PS: My initial post concerning a false flag attack has nothing to do with left or right. My point is that there are people with a vested interest in keeping the right left blame game alive.

@damo9f I think the point was that a few extremists whether actual or not do not represent the majority. That's why they're called extremists. In a situation as tense as that rally will probably be, it would be pretty easy for a "planted" extremist to cause an issue, which is what the main stream media would latch on to attempting to paint the entire rally with that same brush.... it's a genuine concern for peaceful protesters.

@3percent wouldnt even necessarily be a "planted" extremist. All the media's instigating back and forth from both sides would mostly be the cause to things escalating on their own. The far-left being more for the attention than anything else would most likely be who got the ball rolling, while the far-right acting from natural anger would be the ones to finish the altercation.

Most of these types of controversial events, I believe play out naturally...its once the events are recounted that they become "false flags", becoming tools used to benefit whoever it is who is retelling the news. With the right being more vulnerable to provocation, their sometimes violent actions is what causes authorities to become involved, then attracting the press.

@WorldSigh I'm fairly moderate, but see a lot of this "false flag" stuff by people who don't think that violence perpetrated by violent white supremacist groups exist (or think it is more rare than reported) - or they like to claim not to believe it. So when there is an attack or incident they yell "false flag" and refuse to believe it.

@DesireNoDesires - That was some twisted logic. When a neo-Nazi runs into a crowd with his car, it's not because of "media instigating." It's because he's a neo-Nazi. Again, this is not complicated.

Nazis in the streets marching, beating up people and occasionally killing people or engaging in terrorism. That's what they do.

The "far left" does not "get the ball rolling."

There's such a thing as personal responsibility. Someone joins up with the Nazis (or Klan or whatever) and they pull the trigger or detonate an IED, drive into the crowd - that's all on them. None of this liberal media ball rolling bullshit for me.

@damo9f Nazi's arent White supremacists, White supremacists arent...the media arent Liberal. Ever realize people usually find it easier to identify others than to identify themselves...when in reality its all caused by the same system built upon the 7 deadly sins..The Greedy provoking the prideful, the prideful falling victim to their lust of another.. Have you not watched "American History X?"

Do you think an individual who was planning some type of an attack would be triggered by talk of "white supremacist garbage" ? No, it wouldnt' even be noticed by anyone, besides all of the media, along with their minions who spread this belief constantly..then if a situation is to take place, as long as those involved are Caucasian than they shout "alt-right" and if not white story doesn't get pushed

@DesireNoDesires - Yes, Nazis are white supremacist. They think white people, particularly "aryan" whites, are better than black people. The Nazis are, and always have been, all about (white) racial purity.

Curious - what news or information source led you to believe Nazis are not white supremacists?

@damo9f theyre 2 separate groups, that have similar philosophical beliefs