@TheMiddleWay

Howdy again.

Herman Caine was an old man and he was a cancer survivor. The cancer treatment impaired his immune system. I am very sorry to lose him and I am sorry for his family's loss. Hindsight is twenty-twenty.

They moved the rallies outdoors after his loss.

@TheMiddleWay Whaaat? The curve was supposed to be flattened five months ago! Quarantines only work to keep the sick from the healthy, not vice versa. The only thing hiding in the basement has done is provide an excuse for a presidential candidate to remain in hiding...

@TheMiddleWay you think two weeks of quarantine would have solved this whole problem?? Haha. Wrong. Anyway, I’ll take my chances with a 98.8% survival rate. It’s better than living in fear.

You're forgetting the Tin Foil Hat to protect you from the Covid Lies floating everywhere.

@TheMiddleWay Remind me agian... we are talking about something that's infecting around 1-2% of the population and killing less than >1-2% of who it infects.....?

The CDC states that 94% of the COVID deaths on average had 2.6 other causes of death....

"Table 3 shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death. The number of deaths with each condition or cause is shown for all deaths and by age groups. For data on comorbidities, . "

So to be intellectually honest it seems wrong to say the death toll is ANYWHERE NEAR 207,302. The CDC says (based on when the death toll was at 191,211) that 82,417 "CV-19 Deaths" were also caused by Influenza. Oh that's interesting isn't it?
Lets do some math...

6% of 207,302 is 12,438
Covid has been recorded here in the U.S. for 8 months which is 244 days.
Lets take total COVID-19 deaths 12,438
Divided by how many days have gone by 244 which is 50.9
Divided by how many states there are 50 which is 1.01

Do you follow... 1 person per state per day has truly died from covid.... how many millions of others have died of other causes? Aprox... 2,075,066 according to the CDC.
We are shutting down and changing society for this bullshit? Use your mind.

Sources:
[cdc.gov]
[covid.cdc.gov]

@TheMiddleWay

All Lives matter... but
Not when it means authoritarian lock-downs based on FEAR and not science/economics that kill and hurt more people than the Virus itself.

I don't think your mathing...
Covid has killed 0.5% of all deaths in the last 8 months.

Get your tin-foil hat for this but you are more likely to die driving your vehicle than this VIRUS OF DEATH.

Do you still drive your car? Daily? Thats horrendous because 36,000 people die every year in car accidents.
COVID has killed aprox 13k...

[en.wikipedia.org]

@TheMiddleWay

Would you be willing to sit down and spend a few hours looking at the other 99% cause of deaths that taking place and figuring out 1-3 daily things you could do different (per morbidity) to ensure less people die and ALL lives do matter?

Or are we only willing to change our lives for Virus that... by the way according to New CDC Stats
Aprox 40% of ALL Covid infections are Asymptomatic AND DON'T EXPERIENCE A THING.
[cdc.gov]

Do you drive a motor vehicle?
If the answer is yes, then you are putting more people in danger by buckling that seat belt than not wearing a mask.
You can't say yourself that all lives matter if you are driving a vehicle. #mootpoint

@TheMiddleWay With this logic...

Does getting pneumonia while you have cancer mean you didn't die of cancer? Or course not. You die of cancer with the additional cause, pneumonia.

It would still seem to me that most "Covid deaths" are actually "Flu" deaths with an additional cause of Covid.
Still seems disingenuous to say the death count is 200k. It looks like youre flipping your logic.

8k deaths of Sepsis, accompanied by covid... are they covid deaths? Doesn't make sense to me following your previous line of reasoning.

@TheMiddleWay Hey, I would like to just say I appreciate you engaging with me and not getting heated.

I cannot hold any fear or paranoia or let alone care when I see these numbers.

From this page
[cdc.gov]

Scenario 5: Current Best Estimate
Infection Fatality Ratio
0-19 years: 0.00003
20-49 years: 0.0002
50-69 years: 0.005
70+ years: 0.054
Percent of infections that are asymptomatic
40%

And all those numbers are based on 2% of the whole population getting sick.
It seems almost unquantifiable how insane this is.
My county has an Indefinite mask order. Yet out of the last 3500 cases over the last 4 months we have had 20 deaths (which is 0.5%) . That just seems insane.
2020 and now we are afraid of germs all of a sudden?

@TheMiddleWay unfortunately the CDC and WHO have reversed themselves so many times that the average Joe has been left frustrated and disbelieving...Even the CDC might still have on their website the notation found in “results” of antibody testing where they explain that it is impossible to tell the difference between cv19 or the common cold and false positives or negatives are the result...

@TheMiddleWay In a word?

Winning!

@TheMiddleWay I don't even have the time to brush my teeth. Why would you expect the President of the United States to have the kind of time that Academics do to learn about all that stuff, especially as the world goes to hell. Covid is not the only thing going on in the world. You are expecting too much from just one man.

@TheMiddleWay How could you possibly trust the science when there's not a single scientific concencus, and the current state of the Academia. Would you trust them, and go learn about race theory? Man, you know what I'm saying. Stop acting all mighty, it doesn't lead to anything productive. It's better to acknowledge each other limitations so we can take advantage of their talents. IMO at least.

@TheMiddleWay the title doesn't mean anything. I think he is right to take the arguments that make more sense instead of relying on pedigree. I would do the same, and I agree with him so far. I see nothing wrong. Even if I did, I would say it's my own responsibility to figure it out on my own as I wish to be a sovereign person. So... That's all I'm saying, but to each his own. Respect.

@TheMiddleWay yes, but we're not talking about a pilot and a surgeon. Were talking about two scientists. The few classes and experience they have in difference wouldn't prevent them from knowing better than the other. We all have brain's and we all reason. You are underestimating people. And Trump isn't stupid. Perhaps one scientist was better explaining than the other, but it was their job making him understand so he could take the decision. If he doesn't get it, it's just as much the fault of his scientist employees. And they let him take the decision. I don't see them objecting. So if you're going to place the deaths upon Trump decision, you can't let the scqntist who was right off the hook as he had access to te decision maker, and Trump would have chosen the wrong decision because of his lack of ability at his job. Trump is not God, you can't lay everything on him.

@TheMiddleWay yea, this is all Trumps fault. Standard liberal response.

@TheMiddleWay Dude, come. On. Do you really -REALLY- think that Trump goes there, have these people trying tirelessly to explain something to him, and he is willingly, voluntarily actively trying to think to something else like grabbing bitches by the pussy? Come on. What are you suggseting? is he stupid? Is he negligent? He chose what he thought would be best, right? Can we aggee on that? Why do you think he went for"the wrong decision, let's say?

Besides, why does he even get conflicting "scientific advise." If they were such good scientists, they would agree. Period. Or at the very least have them both argue it out BEFOREHAND so they can give a unified scientific perspective.

And you don't get it. I'm not saying they don't have different classes and work experience, I'm saying that both are capable of -in their own free time- be researching the other guy's stuff. You never know. And since they're both capable, it's worth listening to them. Would you dismiss an argument just because it came from the right eye doctor, and not the left eye one?

But once again. Not his fault they came to him with two perspectives. If they can't decide between reasonable people talking logic and science,, if those two great minds were unable to reach a consensus, why would you blame the businessman if he's not able to get it right either? He's at the very least just as wrong as one of the very pedigreed PhDs. So no matter how bad, he screwed up at a PhD level. So I don't know what you're complaining about.

@TheMiddleWay "But you have to admit that as president, he bears a lot of the responsibility and culpability for what happens to US citizens under his watch."

-Not legally, you can't prosecute him.
-Not morally, at least not more than the people themselves, which is enough.

So... whad do you mean "responsibility or culpability?" Hate him? If you hate them, you gotta hate all the people first who let it happen to themselves. Why do you want to live with a perpetual father figure? You can't be free if you put yourself under the care of the State.

@TheMiddleWay I'm sorry, I really think you are not being aware of the underlyling emotional bias. Point 1, you rather went for hearsay than to consider it yourself. And of course the doctors advise and then does what he wants. He IS the President. But you said it yourself, he will do what makes him look good. Id doesn't follow with taking the wrong decision. Your arguments are contradicting. And absolutely everybody will capitalize in every oportunity, even the best people do it for emotional satisfaction or spiritual enlightenment. That is just human. And your last point is a sales pitch. You know you gotta talk politianese in order to be in such positions. All he did is to put pressure on them, which is not something bad really. It will be sooner if they worked faster. But I agree that lying is bad. That's why I don't want polititians to exist at all, government is bad. You can say the same thing about me, and defend our egos that way. If you can trust me though, I'd appreciate if you really consider it for a second. There is a great satisfaction when you make the realization. I don't say this to try to win. i don't care for winning. You know that I always talk shit about myself, and dont't care about Trump himself, even though I do consider him extremely important as a symbol for "our side" in the Culture Wars. I don't want to compete with you.

@TheMiddleWay How can it make it look good if it's not the good choice for the country? Who would look at him and say: "Wow, that man took the WRONG choice! Amazing!!!!"

What I said of hearsay was about your first point, that's why I wrote "Point 1." The one about them saying that "he does that." You're conflating my argument for that with th elast part. My argument for the last part was the politianese marketing thing.

@TheMiddleWay

Legally: they can try.
Morally: I don't think "leader" means what you think it means.

@TheMiddleWay I am growing restless about this and I'm really starting to get the feeling you're not willing to debate in an intellectually honest way. I think we should stop... Er... I give up?

@TheMiddleWay There's not a real way to know, that's why trust is so important and lies are extremely counterproductive... Thanks, man. ttyl

@TheMiddleWay Sigh, "leader" means "person who either motivates and/or organizes people into group action."

@TheMiddleWay That logic may apply regarding war but a flu virus? Nope. In other words, Johnson and Nixon were culpable for the lives lost during the Vietnam war but a virus is an entirely different beast. Despite what the MSM says, Trump did what he could to protect the people. If you are all for lockdowns how do you explain Sweden?

@TheMiddleWay Read the data above again from Fireraptor I believe that comes from the CDC. Nothing to fear unless you are old and have other conditions. If you think shutting down the worlds economy over this and robbing people of their freedom then you are part of the problem.

@TheMiddleWay You both are the problem because none of you would ask nicely of could you please take me into account too. It's funny how it's considered weak to show emotion when it's obviously tq hardest thing to do. I'm not saying it would always work, but it's obviously the right path. @TheMiddleWay, would you please take into account that your economy s new the only one and two situation s worse in other countries without stimulus or jobs. Like me, you know it well. It's hard and I would really appreciate if you could take my hurt into consideration too. @73jazzbass.... Er ... Sorry, I ave nothing for you. I totally disagree with TheMiddleWay too. Sorry, buddy. It's boomers' time. They won't let go the jobs we would ave by now, and you know it. It's time to relinquish power, plus the threat of authoritarianism that this could cause is too much to care bout the elderly. Er ... I still care about you tho... <3 hehe Sorry, I just don't believe you really care about those patients. You just wanna win. I'm jaded by all the last decade of leftism. It didn't cost me without consequence