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LOL there are a few Progressives here that have serious problems.

One for example... after Trump says he wants all legal/legitimate votes counted... this poor little dear says Trump and his followers only want Trump votes counted... Huh?

Then they say Trump has ruined America? Huh?

Of course we all know they blame Trump for every bad thing that happens and then make up the rest because they have been brainwashed and suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome.

The Culture Wars continue... but just how do you save America from distorted thinking like this?

Has Trump ruined America?

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Lightman 8 Nov 11
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What exactly was wrong with American pre-Trump which needed it to be made "great again"?

Worst recession since the Depression - and yes, the GOP had a hand in that - but also the continuing nightmares of Iraq/Afghanistan, immigration nightmares, a slow, very slow economy coming out of the recession, worsening school performances, increasing drug culture (not having slowed down over the last decade or Administration), and a growing racial divide and destruction of the family unit.

There were lots of bad things in every period of our history - the advantages and disadvantages of a heterogenous society. If your question can be read as a contra-point, what was so good prior to Trump?

Ferguson, Baltimore, Chicago all erupted prior to Trump....

what is it with you Progressives and your need to build strawmen?

sooo just how did Trump ruin america? hmmmm?

@tracycoyle thank you for your answer. You make good points, and I respect your opinion on the matter. I don't really think Trump or Hillary had what it took to fix any of those issues, especially since I put a lot of the blame on Congress (a lot on McConnell). As for what was good, with Obama I saw the passing of the ACA as a good step in the right direction, albeit flawed with a rough start. Passing marriage equality was huge, as was ending Don't Ask Don't Tell. Bin Laden was brought to justice. Terrible post-9/11 torture practices were ended. EPA and FDA regulations were working towards combating climate change and increasing health standards (though also flawed). Stem-cell research was expanded, and abortion rights were protected. We had a bad recession, but it was in a strong upturn towards recovery. I saw marijuana legalization as a good thing. I think there was a lot of progress made in the way of sexual orientation and gender identity rights.

Not all of this was reversed or ruined under Trump. Marriage equality is still legal, though with Thomas and Alito recently opining that Obergefell v. Hodges should be overturned, and the recent appointment of Barrett, it could potentially be at risk. I don't necessarily think Trump ruined America, but he did bring a lot of hate and division out of the woodwork, and in my honest opinion he doesn't care about America or its people - just lining his pockets.

@Lightman, since when is asking a question building a strawman? In fact, it's quite the opposite, since I am trying to see what people think rather than telling them what they think.

Did I vote here? Did I say Trump ruined America here? No. But you clearly made this post because of me, I was in your head just that much.

@JacksonNought I'm sorry... but you are not in my head... you never will be.
when you create an argument about something no one mentioned you create a strawman.
Did you say trump ruined America? Are you a Progressive? Oh wait you already admitted that.
So... how did Trump ruin America?
By bettering the lives of the poor, helping create world peace, removing US military from action abroad... the list goes on and on and on.

@Lightman have I said Trump ruined America. Please point out where and when. It's possible, but I'd like you to show me. I have admitted to being a Progressive, sure. That is all. You are the one engaging in strawmen, conjecture, and false narratives.

@JacksonNought why don't you post a link to the quote where you didn't say it the one with Trump ruin and america in it...

@Lightman wow, good one. Is this the level of discourse you bring to the table? It's like trying to communicate with a toddler.

@JacksonNought Let me address each item: ACA was a nightmare, unConstitutionally enacted, poorly implemented and terribly flawed. It almost singlehandedly destroyed health care insurance, ostensibly it's purpose. I supported marriage equality and argued that individual liberty and classical liberalism supported it also. Of course Trump was for it long before Obama and Clinton. DADT was a pernicious piece of shit Clinton saddled us with, glad to see it gone. I supported gays in the military, and we had two in our squadron in the AF we protected as long as one rule was followed - do nothing in the barracks, which they abided by. Bin Laden was protected until he wasn't - Bush mistake, Obama allowed, til he didn't, thankfully, but of course Biden opposed. My position on abortion is elsewhere. I would argue the economy was improving at the end of Obama's term, but 'strongly is not a term I'd use. Given I was in a lesbian relationship from 95 until 2011, my position on gay rights was 'supportive'. I am having a much harder time with 'trans rights' now.

Like abortion, marriage equality can't be overturned in the SCOTUS without a disagreement in the lower courts being at issue - not likely to happen. And in both cases, it would devolve back to the States. I like ACB, I worked with attorneys in her District and have been in her court. I like orginalism.

Most of division over the last 4 years started on the Left. The wrongful accusation of a "Muslim ban" was just one such example.

@JacksonNought hypocritical name calling again? hmmm.

@JacksonNought, @tracycoyle clearly Trump has not ruined America and propbably did more for it than the Obama Biden years.

2

There has been a concerted effort to demonize all the elements of "America" - family, faith, community, self.

If the country has been ruined, let a person that claims such define what aspects have been changed and from what status/state those aspects were in prior to Trump.

Right now, there are few, any?, non-partisan institutions that retain their status. I for one will never trust the FBI or DOJ or State, or any other government organization to be objective about anything. Forget the media. Even the military - at least as it is currently situated in the Pentagon - is suspect. Does anyone think the government, State or Federal, actually represents to ENTIRE electorate?

And all of this destruction happened BEFORE Trump walked in the door at the White House....

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