I'd imagine most here have to some degree. So, I think you're going to have to stand up and be counted. Make your point, live with the consequences.

@chuckpo United States=Corporation, State of xyz= subsidiary corporation, all owned by private interests. Our votes don't mean squat, SSI and Taxes go to the IMF= world bankers, all of it is buried in plane sight in the records of congress, US code, IRC, your land is not yours, you get to lease it from the government, stolen from the american people in 1933-35 by FDR when they pledged our PRIVATE land for the debt they ran up with the Federal reserve bank (without telling us) those in government work for the bankers, 14th Amendment "Citizen" is devoid of rights. Right, Left it really doesn't matter, none of them work for us the people.

@ObiRonMoldy, while I think you overstate the case, that's not my point. My point is what you see is his aberrant behavior is the same behavior demonstrated constantly by the entire Democrat party. It's not really debatable. What's more is that behavior predates Trump's Presidential run and subsequent service.

I think you have to ask yourself what the hell a bullet would look like. Are you kidding? Trump's been blown up more than any other American who hasn't been literally killed (yet). Seems like a hell of a bullet to me. He gets this assault EVERY SINGLE DAY, and the media has completely sacrificed their own integrity just to get their shots in. His wife and children, for God's sake, also take shots they absolutely don't deserve. They've been targets of some of the most vile behavior imaginable. What are you calling a bullet, hahahahah!?!

Maybe Putin will, with the help of Democrats, finally get the best of Trump. But, I've yet to see where that could be the case. Trump seems to stand his ground with everyone--incredibly so, actually.

@ObiRonMoldy, come on, do I really have to give you examples of horrific Democrat behavior? I don't understand how you could see one without the other. It's all a huge shtshow--yep, Trump's playing his part. The entire Democrat party is overplaying their parts. Schiff, Schumer, Pelosi, Waters, Swalwell, Nadler, Hirono, Harris, Booker (Spartacus)--I mean I literally can't list them all and the garbage crap that comes out of their mouths, and that's not even talking about AOC, Omar, and Tlaib. What Democrats did to Kavanaugh was atrocious--the slanderous, libelous junk should have been literally punished. The Democrat party is sunk in the stink of their own corruption and terrible public behavior. Surely, I don't have to cite for you examples. It's DAILY, and the left-mainstream-media is EXACTLY the same. Everyone of those choads acts exactly like they think Trump acts. Deny that. Lies, corruption, innuendos, deceptions, false accusations, fake news, inspiring violence and division and hatred...it's ALL there. Same page?

OH, so it's only the bullets from outside the country on a first thursday of the month after Ramadan between 4:15 and 6:00am that you meant. Okay.

Did Putin get his claws into Obama? Obama was a puppet, right? I know you remember that comment about how Obama would have more working room, yada, yada, yada that we all watched on video. Trump doesn't seem like such a pushover, so I'm not sure what your concern is--well, I am, but I'm being polite.

NO OTHER PRESIDENT HAS BEEN MORE FOR THE UNITED STATES IN THE LAST 30 YEARS than Trump. Maybe a whole lot longer.

It's not close. I know, the sky is falling. Only I don't think it is. Trump has fixed a lot of what the Clinton/Bush/Obama complex destroyed or were in the process of destroying trying to 'progress' without giving social change much thought or anything else socially responsible. Those were horrid Presidents.

You don't like the reality tv show, and yet you're captivated by it. I hate that stuff personally, but I like it more since there is a counter-balance to the Democrats crap. Democrats elected Trump. And, they did it by being choads before he even got on the scene. They clearly don't like someone else using their tactics. But, I don't care much what they like because I haven't liked their behavior in a long time. I find the coward Republicans distasteful, so I'm grateful for Trump for coming in to be that mirror to the Democrats. I get why they don't like it.

Yeah, let's be honest. You do defend the democrats. It's obvious. The reason it's obvious is because you can't see or refuse to acknowledge the entire show. I'll give you Trump's silly self-promotion. Isn't it interesting how it drives you over the edge while you just can't imagine what the left might have done to get criticism? I'll take your flock analogy. There are so many examples it's overwhelming. My question is how many would you dismiss as I bring them up?

@ObiRonMoldy, there's no way someone in the middle doesn't see that it's the same between the Democrats and Trump. That's just implausible. BUT, I was snarky. I'm still smarting over losing good members because of a leftist douche, and then I'd just run into a snotty kid being a dck because he's a radical leftist, and he thinks that's enough to make him smart. Dont forget a lot here left fb/Twitter because of junk like that. It's way old. SO, I'm sorry if I treated you unfairly. I promise you I can give you countless examples where the Democrats have shown a grave lack of character. The Barr stuff is one. I did mention kavanaugh. The way they are with Trump every day...I shouldn't have to give you examples. Pick one.

@ObiRonMoldy how about every time there's a gun incident? How about saying any White House worker who agrees with Trump should go to jail. How about Pelosi saying Trump's family should have an intervention or have Trump removed? How about every time one of them bashes and misrepresents a Trump supporter? How about Watters telling Democrats to harass Republicans? How about every accusation of racism, misogyny, xenophobia, homophobia, etc? Seriously, we could go day by day and list garbage said by democrats

@ObiRonMoldy, told you you'd excuse it all. Theres always a reason why it's different. Except it's not. How about the Covington HS incident, where the entire left maligned that kid before they knew the story, and then half found a reason to still bash the kid after they knew the story? Contrast that with the kids at Stoneman Douglas who were sainted for being little wads.

What about jussie smollett, who was sainted until there was no doubt the guy was a choad. I'm not giving specifics because there are literally so many examples within each topic I listed. Honestly, I feel like you're being disingenuous. You MUST know what I'm talking about, or you're hopelessly partisan. There's simply no other ground there to occupy. Democrats have said horrid things about Trump DAILY, and they've said horrid things about Trump supporters--untrue, I might add. Ever listen to Don Lemon or watch CNN or MSNBC? Like I said first thing, come on. I'm not going to do any more work for you. Pick ONE area I've listed and go look for the answer to the question. It's painfully obvious. It's just excused when it's on the Democrat side--always an excuse, but NOTHING can be 'just a joke' if Trump says it. It can't be a political exaggeration because he's Satan, so it's only the most evil you can imagine. I'd have to write a book to have this conversation. Honestly, not to be rude, but you acting like you don't know what I could be talking about is not sensible.

SO, you give you specifics. Do your own work or just believe the partisan hyperbole you want to believe. It's all there for you to know, and there's no excuse for not knowing it.

@ObiRonMoldy, oh and Kavanaugh wasn't harsh. It was a god-damned character assassinating lynching. 100% intentional--as absolutely gross as it gets. That was of the lowest possible character across the Democrat board. You cannot say that was harsh. It's like saying killing 6 million Jews was tough luck.

Did you watch it? I watched every bit of that witch trial. That's one of the worst things I've ever seen. I watched Clarence Thomas too, and that one was right in there. The race thing made that one worse, but I actually think the Democrats were worse to Kavanaugh--lying, deceptive, corrupt, dbs.

@chuckpo The one thing I want to know about Kavanaugh is why did he have to lie? Why couldn't he just own up to the fact that he did some things he's not proud of when he was young and he's grown since then? The message I received from him was: "All these years I've been following the rules of elite society as I understood them, hell I even hired diverse clerks, so how dare you impugn my integrity and try to take this away from me!" Such entitlement! Yeah, "Renate Alumnus" was just about showing affection for a good friend. Every man in America knows what a mountain of bullshit that is. And so does Renate.

@WilyRickWiles, please provide proof of any lie Kavanaugh told. You just want to believe so bad that this thing wasn't a complete Democrat sham. That entire shtshow was a circus based on nothing but the desire to impugn a person they didn't want on the supreme court. LOW-CHARACTER DEMOCRATS SO MUCH WORSE THAN ANYTHING THEY'VE ACCUSED TRUMP OF. This entire conversation is disingenuous and unreasonable, and a waste of time. You'll believe what they want you to believe no matter what it is. You're like puppets on a string, dancing and making yourself the fools for your puppet-masters.

@ObiRonMoldy, I provided a ton of examples you can research for yourself. I don't owe you anything, so do your own work--as I suggested. You haven't provided any specific examples either. You're depending on my knowledge of the McCain story to fill in between the lines. What's the difference?

McCain's a crapball. I lived in Arizona for 22 years, and I could never stand the guy. He lived off the legend of being captured in war. He literally thought that's why people should listen to him and elect him president. I did NOT vote for McCain when he ran or Romney, when I already couldn't stand Obama. Where does the idea come from that we should be reverent to those we despise when they die, and we should lie about them like they were great people? John McCain wasn't a great man. He wasn't a monster--just creepy, and 100% politician. Why do you care what Trump thinks of him? Trump says dumb things. I guess you should get over it. What wily says about Kavanaugh is insulting to me. That entire incident was insulting, because those asshats want me to accept that ANY of that was reasonable--or WORSE--to protect me as an American. BS! It was an utter character assassination built upon what is most likely flat out lies because DEMOCRAT.

You say the right things about Kavanaugh, yet you say it in a way that accepts the horrific partisan character assassination. You fail to weight the entire event in context. What the Democrats did was among the worst behavior I've ever seen. They literally did not care if they ruin Kavanaugh's life or his wife's or his daughters. Why? Because DEMOCRAT. That's NOT okay. It's insidious, and it reflects on EVERY partisan hack there participating. It was Lord of the Flies, and they killed him. I guarantee you they changed his life forever.

Narcissism is one of the most misused terms in the public lexicon. It has an actual meaning and political convenience isn't one of the definitions. Trump's not a narcissist. He's Bobcat Goldthwait. He has a shtick. I'd point out, however, that even if he had such a low opinion of himself that he bloviates about his greatness, that's not narcissism, nor is it a character trait that matters. Actions always speak louder than words, and his actions have been pro-America. I get you have a bias against people with self-esteem issues, but look at the actions that reflect Trump's 'character'. Trump isn't perfect by any means, but he's not what Democrats try to paint either. They're simply doing the same to Trump as they did to Kavanaugh. AND, they've all impugned Trump's family--even the youngest one. It's on video.

Best not go the mental health route. I have experience and education there. And, you're not a psychologist. Luckily you're not bound by the ethics in the field, because diagnosing someone from biased media sources is way off the trail. You've never met the man--never sat down with him, right? You have NO BASIS and NO EXPERIENCE to make any diagnosis. I'm pretty sure you don't have any knowledge of the DSM-V, nor the training to use it or understand it. I DO. Fair enough?

Again, you defend or minimize something that is egregiously wrong and unacceptable. Yet, you want to sound objective. You can be nonobjective even when you sound objective. Like I've said, talking about the Holocaust without giving it the emotion it deserves is actually an emotional position. It's an insult to 6 million people who were exterminated horrifically because of some attribute they share. What makes me emotional here is the the disingenuous undercurrent of the discussion. You continue to excuse examples of low character to anything on the left. It's just politics when your side shows low character. It's the end of the god-damned world when Trump makes a joke or trolls the left. That's not objective. It's not middle of the road. It's not fair-minded. It IS just like every other modern Democrat. And, don't pretend you haven't insulted me. You're spending more time fluffing it up and spraying it with perfume. I get it. I've done it before myself, but I'm not really in the mood to make that effort. What really matters is intent, and you have had the intention to insult me--clearly. I know, I know, because of your vast experience in mental health, I'm projecting...I prefer genuine conversations where both people have good intentions. I don't feel that's the case here. Do your own work or just own up to the fact you're sandbagging (pretending you have no knowledge) or understanding of my points unless I meet your criteria for what an argument should look like. That's about power and control, and I'm not really interested in playing that game.

@ObiRonMoldy, what? I didnt call you a nazi sympathizer. You made that up. More evidence of that cool objectivity.

I know what pathology is and what it isn't. It's not excusing. It's just not pathological. It wouldn't be if you exhibited the same behavior.

You don't understand narcissism. There's a lot you aren't considering. It's a word you threw out there for emotional impact. Just own something.

Last paragraph is true. Something to agree on.

@ObiRonMoldy

Re: akin to a Nazi sympathizer, yes, I exaggerated,

Yep, just like Trump. So much of the criticism about what Trump says is right there--normal. Exaggerated crowd size? Really? That's the blistering lies Trump's telling? Good example!

My comment about the haulocost was a comparison--a literary device. I in NO WAY implied you were like a Nazi. You completely fabricated it. Completely.

You can say you're not excusing. I think you are. Like you said. End of that conversation.

Where I accuse you of being disingenuous is in pretending you have no idea what I'm talking about REPEATEDLY. I don't believe that is sincere. I believe you're being strategic, and that's really different. So, essentially you don't know what I'm saying and are jumping to conclusions about what you think I'm saying. Sound familiar? What's that dance where we dance around in circles?

Nice work, Defective Obi! No, really. Nice work! The DSM-V is the most recent iteration of the DSM. It makes sense to refer to the newest version. That whole last paragraph further shows your ignorance about mental healthcare. Please stop representing yourself as someone who knows. I have copies of both the DSM-IV and the DSM-V. I could take a picture of them sitting there on my shelf if I cared enough to prove it to you. I don't. So, you can take me at my word or you can not or you can shove off. The interesting part is YOU just reenacted the behavior that you say proves Trump's a narcissist. That's weird, right? Oops.

I thought we were done. I've seen all I need to. You? I'm not in a frame of mind to spar with the left here for awhile. I need a break. I need to talk to some true middle roaders for awhile. At least the people on the right are honest about where they're coming from. I've said on the site I'm an anti-radical left-independent. I'm an anti-radical left-independent because the damage the left is causing. I'm a Trump supporter, because the republicans were cowards, and they wouldn't stand up to the left--still won't for the most part. Instead, they're tightening their tiny balls to be anti-Trump. I want the power returned to the people, and I want to squash the establishment that has set up this charade of team rivalry. But, we can't get anywhere until people are honest about where they stand and honest enough with themselves to look at and remove all of the cancer. McCain was cancer (ironically). Sadly, the country got better without him in it. That doesn't mean Trump had to say what he thinks, but how else do you fight this pc culture war? It was NEVER going to be pretty. A diplomat would NEVER have done THIS job. It had to be a person like Trump who was willing to get down in the mud with the Democrats and play their game. Anyone who can't see the Democrats and the leftist media are just like Trump is just lying to themselves. And, that kind of approach is part of the problem and not one step toward the solution.

@ObiRonMoldy, you're gushing crap, but I can see the left you've been trying to hide oozing out. Ummm, you keep doing the exact things you're accusing me of. Fine. You stepped on your dck, because I actually am what you're pretending to be. You got caught in my expertise. That's your bad luck. Now, I don't want to talk to you anymore.

@WilyRickWiles, am I next on your list to get kicked off of idw, wily? @Admin can just remove me now because ppl like you make it awful anyway. It's why you're here trolling.

@ObiRonMoldy @chuckpo
Trump is a douche, given. But so were no few leaders of either party. If you look at the Clinton Global Initiative masquerading as a charity... well, there's some douchery approaching critical mass.
Trump may even be at that level. But despite the best efforts of all the King's Men to pull Humpty Trumpy asunder, nothing criminal has been proven.
And I don't think he's insane. And the constitution says nothing prohibiting any Ye Old Douche from running for office. So his relative ranking on the douche scale is kinda irrelevant.

I don't like him... but I'll admit when he does something right. And he's done at least several good things. Some other things he's tried haven't worked out... but I'll also give him credit for trying. In some areas that's more than anyone else has done for quite a while.

So whether he's the Douche of Earl or some other individual holds that especial honor... I'm more concerned about policies and broad political tactics... and there's one I think that needs quite a bit more emphasis than it received in the midst of this conflict of opinion.

I'm talking about the Kavanaugh confirmation.
I can't really accept that what they did to Kavanaugh was just politics.
It was utterly reprehensible.
The media called Ford's story incredibly credible... but there was nothing even close to credible about it. And that's just the story itself... Ford herself claimed that she was so traumatized by the incident that she couldn't fly... but had racked up frequent flyer miles, and was in fact on vacation when she was called to Washington. There are other examples... not that they're needed. The accusation itself was utterly unprovable.

Then several democrats said that the "presumption of innocence" did not apply to Kavanaugh. I don't even care to relate how they attempted to rationalize that statement. The presumption of innocence applies in America as long as this is America. And I'll remember ever person who said that it didn't... at the ballot box.

I remember some celebrities (Alyssa Milano being one) said that if Kavanaugh were not in fact guilty that it was okay to ruin his life because so many other men had gotten away with something similar.
Again, is this America or not?

To this day, a lot of those on the left still call Kavanaugh a sexual predator. They are still trying to prevent him from teaching at any university. Some have said he should have his children taken away from him.
As far as I know the preponderance (if not the totality) of the democrat party were fine with this execrable tactic. I don't recall anyone in the democrat party standing up and calling his entire debacle a disgrace. So that pretty much does it for me. I don't need any other examples.

Btw... they did exactly the same thing to Roy Moore here in Alabama perhaps a year before the kangaroo confirmation. I kind of think it was a test of the tactic. I really didn't like Moore as a candidate... but they waited until his name could not be removed from the ballot and then someone came out and made an accusation from 38 years ago. The accusation could not in any way be proven.
If the democrat party had been in search of justice... they could have made the claim and had him removed from the ballot in favor of his closest republican challenger. But they set the matter such that "justice" required that the republican party lose a seat in the Senate. That had not the least thing to do with justice. The accuser waited 38 years and the requisite number of days to make her unprovable accusation, such that it hurt the republican party not merely Roy Moore.
No one, not even republicans made much of a fuss about it because Moore was a douche, and probably a liability to his party. So Moore was a douche... but the tactic of guilt by unproveable accusation is bullshit. It's unAmerican bullshit.

Now they want not only Trump's financial records but those of his children and grandchildren. Without some form of probable cause... that's bullshit.
Trump is a douche... but many of the tactics used against him are utter bullshit.
Until he's proven to be something other than just a douche... Given the choice between him and a party willing to bend or obviate every law they can to take him down...I guess I'll stand with the douche.

Blasey-Ford is a psychology professor. She would know how to construct a story around 'trauma' without having experienced it. The two door thing was a little too text-book. It would be very simple to write the story. Given all of the proven inconsistencies and utter lack of ANYTHING corroborated by ANY human being, it seems like she just made it all up. In fact, it's more than 'likely'. It's highly probable--as close to fact as you can get without it being fact. Then, throw on the other 'accusations' and their absurdity, the plan was obvious to all, but the most desperate supporters of the Democrat cause. That incident is entirely misreported as a political maneuver. That's not politics. That's a complete and grave lack of character. And, THERE is where we differ. You said it's not a good enough example, because anything the Democrats do, you call politics. Anything Trump does, you call 'lying disgrace. It sickens me that our president is such a DB con man.' That's what I called out, because that is in no way an objective, non-partisan reflection of the landscape. The rest has been you defending your statements as objective--by often adding other examples of your bias and implying I don't have actual examples along the way. Trump exaggerates and puffs himself up and trolls the sht out of the media and the rabid left. No doubt. BUT, I'd take weird over what the Democrat party has become--or the republicans too. We don't need cowards serving. It's a big shtshow all the way around, and Trump is the best part of it--think about that! Drain the swamp.

To @An_Ominous ONLY, Trump may be a douche--hard to say. But, a lot of people walk away saying he isn't the same in private as he is in public. Disconfirming information. It's evidence that there could be more to the story. At least it's reason to give pause, though no Democrat ever would even consider it.

Nobody really says that about any of the Democrat douches. One reason is so many people excuse and normalize their terrible, unacceptable behavior up front, as even evidenced on this thread. Calling the Kavanaugh incident 'political' points to moral decline to the point ANY awful behavior is passable as long as you dehumanize the opposition first, which is exactly what the left has been doing starting with Obama. This garbage is corrosive, as we're watching.

Trump's 'pussy' comment represents the worst of his personality--well outside my way of communicating. I've never been comfortable with it due to style, but I was never appalled by it. I never experienced it as anything other than bloviating noise--at times norming the safety of the group apart from women. A kind of weird 'health' in that way that even negative coping mechanisms can be functional methods of coping.

Thing is you have a bunch of fake people being outraged by it like they never heard such things before. My experience is a ton of guys--everyday regular guys--married guys--talk like that in the safety of a group of guys. I've even known a number of women who talk like that about men and women when they feel safe enough to do so. It's NOT uncommon or abnormal in any sense of reality. And, Trump probably thought he was in a safe place to be a douche. He wasn't, and he got caught. That would really suck. He literally can't trust anybody. He wears a target--in many ways for us. But, it's no different than 'blackface' or various sexual exploits--none of that stuff was someone trying to be hurtful, and it certainly wasn't considered to be career threatening 30 years down the road. We have to separate the real bad stuff from what's being used to manipulate us. The ugliest stuff is when people know that's what's going on and embrace it because it serves some type of personal twisted purpose they may or may not even be aware of.

Anyway, Sunday morning brain dump.

@ObiRonMoldy The flaw is that they are comfortable with corruption. People have been telling me that I have to understand how the world works . They tell me that I have to go along to get along . They want to believe iies

@ObiRonMoldy Am curious, is there a lie, or lies in particular that make you sick?

@ObiRonMoldy, geez, you describe the entire Democrat party and at least half of the republican party, right? Trump has simply exposed it all--the entire game. It's all sitting out there for everyone to see. But, the fans (voting Americans) don't want to see the truth about their own team. I think Trump matches the worst of what's going on--it's reality television. Thing is the Democrats have been getting away with--not being called on--being Trump for a decade. Trump is what Democrats deserve.

@ObiRonMoldy I definitely can appreciate the 'life has taught me' angle for making judgement calls on personality types. So its just that overall personality type you believe his is, that causes you to say he's a liar? Was wondering if there was a specific one or set that was the deal breaker for you?
Personally, I don't think he lies more than ordinary people do. And that he's been put through more scrutiny than any other public figure in history. He's had the FBI, CIA and multiple other agencies deliberately looking for lies and they've gotten nothing. If other politicians were looked at half as closely.....if the media wasn't a tool for subversives and actually did their job since the days of Walter Cronkite and others, there wouldn't have been any need for President DJT, imo. Just saying.

@ObiRonMoldy I did and out of respect was asking why you had the views as you stated and could you say what they were?. The sources you had provided areMichael Cohen a disgraced attorney who had his law credentials stripped from him for lying under oath and giving false testimony to congress & who is now in prison. And both CNBC and Washington Post, both anti-Trump biased media sources who have spent 3 plus years mud slinging the POTUS. Paying off Stormy Daniels, you don't think this has been normal practice for people of social status and influence since records were first kept by law enlightened societies? Stormy Daniels is a stripper, takes her clothes off for a living and takes money from strangers. For her 'alleged affair' with DJT, (a private citizen at the time of the taped conversation and affair) Daniels was paid handsomely $150k and signed an agreement/contract to keep her mouth shut. She got greedy imo, even a 150,000 $1 bills probably went quickly.
And her attorney Avenati who was on media for months, being paid by MSM to trash the POTUS is under criminal investigation from complaints clients haved filed claiming he defrauded them, this includes Stormy Daniels it is believed? (Karma as they say, is a bitch, no pun intended.
And who cares about his academic credentials, for heavens sake, plenty of academics have no street sense, infest politics, and answer to lobbyists. I support your right to your opinion, am sure there are many other subjects in which we probably agree, just not this one.

@ObiRonMoldy Thank you for your thoughtful response, have to say on nearly everyone of your points, totally agree! No need to find evidence of his cringe worthy statements, acknowledge all your examples and many more, lol