@Tom81, Unite no, walkaway yes. walkaway before there was a walkaway campaign. Yes, division does play into the Marxist-feminist narrative doesn't it. All women are chameleons, chameleons whose leaders hate men - all men. MGTOW is about walking away from a no-win situation - not about hate of any sort. 1914wizard OUT

@1914wizard it just seems like you make some valid points but then go to the same extremes the feminists do, but from the other side.
Do you really think ALL women are bad?
I've had lots of bad experiences, but also plenty that enriched my life and taught me a lot. I can definitely say I've met plenty of males that were scum, but I wouldn't judge an entire gender on that either.

@Tom81 To answer your question - No I don't think all women are bad; but all women have it available to them to be bad by law. I'm going to my big screen so I won't be responding to anything else tonight. Have a good one (day that is). 1914wizard out

@1914wizard no worries. Nice chat (good to have a civil one for a change).

@Landofthefree, Truthfully my friend I have no idea what you were trying to say. The post seems to be all over the place. But you have a good day anyway, 1914wizard OUT

@1914wizard shorter, men lie to women saying they love them to get sex.
Women can be stupid in those areas. Bcuz they want it to be true, it IS true ?

They need courses on how men 'think which is from below.

When married people respect each other MORE than themselves, then things change.

I hope that's a bit easier?
Let's all have a good day, even in the middle of a chaotic time!

@Landofthefree still a bit jaded though.

@MichelleD not at all. Look up how many women are single mothers. They mostly all had a boyfriend. Women need to learn about men.
Look at all the corruption right now in governments, banks, it's all over youtube: do you read it?
These are males, not females(mostly, Nancy Pelosi may be an exception).
About all corruption is by men, not women.
Men like lying, colluding.

Obviously, I hope you get it's not 100%. But if you have 30% even, lying, they're causing big problems.
Those types lie for what they want.
Women BELIEVE them!
And if they QUIT believing them, didn't succumb to lies, some of those men make changes.
I'm not totally sure they ACTUALLY make changes once they 'get' their prize.
They may relapse.

I think this contributed to extreme feminism and made them hard, as @1914wizard said.

Big topic, very interesting. Truth is never jaded, just truth.
Women will get hurt if they don't know.
BTW? I like men, a lot even knowing they lie.
I'm meeting one tomorrow who thought he could lie to us, take us. Uhn, uh, no, he can't.
I still like him. He has a lying problem, is all.

@Landofthefree there always going to be those that put themselves above other people. It's not exclusive to one gender. The OP would likely say woman use men and you say men use women. I say some men and some women do this but it's not something to craft your reality from. You will see what you want to see. You will attract the type you're most familiar with. So, if all you've ever know is toxic relationships then, unless you make fundamental changes within yourself, you will continue to find yourself in those entanglements.

In all of your experiences, would you say you had choice, or are you the victim of circumstances you have no control over. I realize you don't have influence over people outside your spere (politicians, media celebs, etc) but you do have influence with people to whom you are interpersonally connected. More importantly, you are in control of yourself and how you choose to experience things. If someone is mistreating you, set boundaries, voice them, and enforce them. You are responsible for how much you allow in situations where you have the ability to walk away. In situations that you have no control over, you still have choices in how it effects you and your behavior. Blaming others is pointless.

@MichelleD Men have power in the world, women just do not. Many things HAPPEN and I don't believe we are in control at all.
I remember one man who told me how he'd been fit, trim and now, a year later, the opposite.
I couldn't help asking since he shared 'what happened '. He sadly said 'life happened '.
The twists and the turns nobody knew or saw.
Look at 2020! Could you control any of that?
Blame is different from noticing. Blame is a waste. Noticing, and deciding 'that person is a narcissist ' or that person is an energy vampire isn't blaming.
It's assessing.
It's a big world. It's not what did I miss, but the truth of what I said.
I could talk about women too, but so many women stupidly believe the charming lies of men, I chose that.
Can't choose everything. And NO, I don't WANT to see that, but it's there.
In all your experiences, we are influenced, miss 90%, much is hidden.
So, neither choice nor victim.
Situations beyond my experience? That's why live and learn. Right?

@Landofthefree I left my narcissist husband of 25+ years in August 2019. I filed for divorce in January 2020. Before that, I had to change me in order to walk away. My divorce is still an ongoing circus that is now a year old and in that time I've been making mental comparisons between all that is 2020 and my personal affairs. The lockdown is very similar to what I experienced while living with my husband. The political and media division is an echo of my divorce. But I have choice. I choose how to respond. I choose how it effects me. I choose, based on my values, what to perceive and what not to believe. Just because we might all fell like we are in a "fun house" (the ones with all the mirrors) doesn't mean we won't find our way out again. But if you want out, you can't just sit on the floor and complain. You have to be responsible for yourself, get up, and start walking. Doing something proactive is part of developing an internal navigation system.

Look, if you want to talk about this more, you can dm me. People are not going to want to read two women talking about narcissistic men.

@MichelleD I don't know 'dm', sorry. Actually, they do. If you look on youtube, there's lots on narcissism. The bible nails it. It says 'In the last days, men shall be lovers of themselves'.
Years ago, I got caught in a trap, got out amazingly.
Met my wonderful husband of today.
BUT, an almost close of the first man seriously entered our lives, almost destroyed us.
My good husband knew all those years but he chose to let me handle it.
It took YEARS to reveal him. I doubt he was aware himself.
Almost a twin, but 'hidden in plain sight, I actually got insight what happened the first time.

You may find this impossible to believe, but being an only child in a really strange household,
I didn't know love or lust. Never knew them.
I either WAS or became a victim.
So bad in the first marriage that OTHERS complained about how awful it was FOR YEARS.

I think about nature: the spider builds his web. Insects don't see it, become food for the spider.

I believe we can become 'spiritual food' for energy vampires.
My 2nd husband smashed that trap.
He rescued me many times.

But let me solve the victim mentality.
Thing is, we learn sometimes, get stronger.
Many times it may not be clear.

As a Christian, certain guidelines protect and lead me.

I have no problem with forgiveness even though the clone tried, likely still trying, to kill us.

This clone was dissociative but he began to just become wicked.
The bible calls it darkness.
Years ago, there was a whole big, long article on the 9 kinds of vampires.

They're all takers, 'have not', and I suspect they're mostly men(not sure).

They are what they are.

I don't know anything about 'dm', but I will.

I'll share one thing: I must ask myself more questions to have avoided this first trap, be honest about my own weaknesses, faults. Others see them, I need to also.

I'm pretty sure wizard reads because he's been abused, (I suspect) by feminist women.

We head towards the best healing program we eventually can set up.

I follow Jesus's counsel, once I see how to apply it.
And sometimes counseling can help.