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Without diving into true/untrue, overblown/dangerously ignored, cautious/cowardly, etc., even if you don't think anything about the virus is real except the violations by government of the liberties of the citizenries, this thing has to really be fucking with the heads of the millions of believers and nonbelievers alike...and some of them are your family, friends and neighbors. I understand that many on these boards have reason to consider "all this shit going on" to be unnecessary, or even malicious. I accept that this might very well be the case. Still, billions of our fellow humans are true believers, and I think it might do some good if BOTH believers and nonbelievers had a little sympathy for the other side.

Whether or not the authorities have any justification in reality for "all this shit going on," the fact is there are true believers masking up in fear for their lives and going out into the world, doing their "essential jobs" with a great deal of honest fear in their hearts. Meanwhile, there are nonbelievers watching everything they've worked a lifetime to build being driven out of business over possibly intentionally subversive authoritarian bullshit. No matter what the reality actually is, a few billion people are suffering a great deal of emotional disruption and I, for one, can almost feel the "great disruption in The Force (sorry)" that "all the shit going on" is causing.

I'm literally borderline psychopathic in my inability to experience empathy, but damn... The present crisis/bullshit is causing a psychopathy among so many of my fellow humans that even I stand in awe. I've been largely unaffected by "all the shit going on," but I know people in real life who haven't left their own "spaces" in weeks--people who haven't had face-to-face human contact with anybody outside of their own households since the first "safer at home" orders were decreed. Brainwashed or not, they deserve sympathy. Maybe they ARE stuck in intellectual bubbles, but FFS, if they try to escape it online all they get is derision from people who they honestly believe will cause the deaths of millions if those people get their way and public spaces are opened too soon.

Anyway...

govols 8 May 13
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0

The total number of deaths overall is a truer figure. there is some relevant information here if you'd care to look.
[dw.com]

0

Catching the virus will set you down on one side of the fence for sure. There's nothing like a temperature of 103 for 4 days to make your mind up.

0

Suddenly the media was saturated with fear mongering news about this Covid thing. I almost immediately smelled something foul about it. In no time at all, every form of main steam media was like a tsunami of panic sticken, fear based, really hard push to deeply change every element of our lives. Soon after seeing the many people who swallowed the fear pill and suckered into drastic reactions, masks & gloves, nearly wearing suits of armor. Seeing how easy it was to bring our society down to our knees in the mud was jaw dropping. My largest concern in the long run is the economic destruction, but as much my concern revolves around the potential food shortages. The Earth's temperature is seriously affected by diminished Sun activity, which could bring crop failures. Adding that to the farmers not being able to supply the food chain. I suspect food shortages will become a matter of very large consequence. When people are faced with emotional reaction, especially when it is about fear, they can become out of character reactionary nut cases, willing to do things they would never have contemplated. Stress and fear can bring people to become violent for survival, emotional craziness.

1

I'm retired and have no particular reason not to follow the strictest viral hygiene. I have been doing so since before the lock down became official.

There are two competing ways I have come to think about my situation. Is a life lived in fear worth living. Or as part of the most vulnerable demographic do I have an obligation to try and not get sick to free up an ICU bed. Neither of which really address the issue of public policy.

From a policy perspective the keep it locked down sentiment is naive. Not because there isn't justification to think that lives are not more important than money. Nor because there are not solutions to the collateral damage the lock down is causing. Businesses can be rebuilt and most people have more material wealth than is optimal for happiness. Those in favor of keeping it locked down are naive at best.

Keeping it locked down is naive because we are in a war with both foreign and domestic enemies. Whether they call themselves socialist, communist, citizens of the world or directors of government agencies they are authoritarian. In practice every communist state has been nationalistic. Largely removing the distinction between fascism and communism. Even the socialists are more like the Nazis than they realize having got in bed to one degree or the other with the corporatist globalists. Every time I see Dr. Fauci with his smirk and small stature I think of Hitler. They may not be nationalists in the technical sense of the word but they are committed to a culture of technocratic and demographic elitism. They would reduce the Chinese workers and essential deplorables to a type of serfdom. Slavery for the most part has always been about class even in the new world where frontier conditions made serfdom impractical. You don't have to put people on a plantation if you can control what they think and thereby what they do and accept.

I don't see the world through rose colored glasses. At least 20 percent of the population has an IQ or emotional disability that means they are unable to care for themselves. That percentage will grow as AI replaces traditional ways of making your way in the world. The overlords are well aware of this and in their heart of hearts may actually feel an obligation to "care" for the excess population until it can be reduced. Just as many slave owners felt an obligation to care for their slaves. Let's just accept that we need to be controlled and cared for. Forget the insult to human dignity for the moment. There are "pragmatic" reason to reject their world view not the least of which is their apparent incompetence.

There are non idealistic reasons to oppose slavery. From a purely economic perspective it degrades "progress". Had the Southern U.S. not have become dependent on slavery, which was really nothing more than racial serfdom following the European example of landed nobility, it would have had an industrial base and free population capable of defeating the North. The same is probably true of the Roman empire.

That brings us to the heart of the matter which is our war. The war against the fascist government of China. It is not about our personal well being that we resist the lock down but because in this economic war freedom is our greatest asset. To win against the enslaving foreign and domestic enemies our best weapon is innovation and free markets. Things that can only flourish in an environment of freedom of speech, and freedom from authoritarianism. The people that are by nature suited for life in a bureaucratic state will suffer where there is freedom but in the long run not as much as if we were to lose the war.

wolfhnd Level 8 May 13, 2020
4

I agree, I believe the fear of COVID-19(84) will kill more people than the virus itself.

Fear is a rational response to threats. It should motivate the actions needed to assess and mitigate the threat.

The problem is, how do you know truth from BS in todays environment of fake news and sensationalism for dollars or likes? You need to research, investigate, explore, etc to find facts and trustworthy opinions. The full story is rarely the article you are reading but the Internet is an amazing place. The truth is out there - It may be spread over many documents but it is out there. Even with tech/government censorship, it is out there. Somewhere...

Here's my personal rules:
Trust no one
Question everything
Tell the truth
and above all else, Follow the Money

One final point: Anything can cause fear. Only one thing can reduce it. Anyone can cause fear. Only one person can reduce it.

You are the ONLY person that can upset you. You must allow everyone else.

Sweden has made strong points that more will die due to delayed cancer screening and elective surgery than from the virus and they have the numbers now to prove it.

Will we eventually know the full truth? I hope so.
The evidence now that the virus was around in China since September and Europe since December does not add up with the claimed contagiousness and mortality of the virus.

Medical researchers knows this by now and more and more common doctors are pointing it out. There is massive lying going on.

2

I believe in destiny. Deja vu is your window. Worrying about something I can’t control is a waste of a lot of energy. No one is guaranteed tomorrow. You can get hit by a semi or choke on a peanut. When it’s your time to cross over, there is nothing you can do to change it. Everybody is going to die, some just sooner than later.

FEWI Level 8 May 13, 2020

I too accept destiny are a higher power but I do believe you can influence the quality of your life while waiting for it. The choices and decisions you make, the knowledge you collect will determine the amount of stress and fear you deal with daily. Everyone will die, true, but living in fear will kill you.

2

Not the first time humans have reacted as a fearful mob, and it won't be the last.

Mob rule is dangerous, because whatever intelligence might be available in the aggregate is totally unavailable in the mob. This is who we are. It is what has placed humanity in danger before, and will again. We all suffer the consequences of being ourselves, regardless of what some of us can understand.

Read my response to crazytmg above... their is something seriously wrong when you do the modelling. The hi R0 numbers and the time of first infections is simply not possible, it should have killed millions of smokers and TB sufferers by now... it has not.
We are being lied to on a massive scale.

@Hanno, I am not clear on what you are asserting. You do realize that the latency of SARS COV2 is incredibly long - on the order of a month or more, while having a mortality far lower than most flu viruses. Some are still asserting the the Ro for SARS COV2 is 2.5, but the papers I believe say it is 5.7. That means the whole World was exposed in 5 weeks. You are right that none of this is being reported, nor reflected in the decisions of our leadership, with the exception of the President, who has responded appropriately as much as he dared all along. He has been practically alone.

@TimTuolomne
The problem is the flurry of deaths in Italy.
If the whole world had been infected... then the mortality rate is minuscule. Also the tests are useless because no one tests positive in many places of the world when every second person should be testing positive as the disease does it’s rounds.
Then what killed the Italians?
So for the hi R0 to be true and the time of first infection to be true, then the disease must be extremely harmless else we would have seen many deaths all over Asia in November and December and the rest of the world in January and February... if the month latency period is true.
Even if R0 is 2,5... the disease deaths are too late and specific in Italy.
And completely absent in Africa? The one place you would expect carnage if the the deaths in Italy are caused by Covid and co-morbid factors such as smoking.

@Hanno See "Multiple Causes Increase Risk." [informationisbeautiful.net]

From that you can see that 99% of the deaths are of smokers and pre-existing conditions. Italy has the highest rate of smokers and one of the oldest demographics in the World. Sweden among the lowest. Exceptions are South Korea, Japan and Taiwan which all realized the threat at least a month before the West.

Also from that you should understand that most of us who are healthy are at far greater risk driving our car than being killed by COVID-19.

You should also realize that social distancing is proved irrelevant by similar results of infection and mortality rates in countries which had vastly different policies.

@TimTuolomne
I understand all those things and completely agree with you on all off them.
What I do not understand, is if the above is all true, the hi R0 and the early dates, and that smoking and poor health are the actual indicators... why is it that in NZ no Maori died?
Maori are among the worst smokers in the world and suffer greatly from poor health conditions.... the Spanish flu devastated their population. Now, no deaths.
Ditto for Africans.... I cannot explain it.

@Hanno. True. Good questions. I don't know, and I have no reasonable guesses either. I can speculate though that just as there are populations that are more sensitive to certain conditions, such as sickle cell anemia, there are also the converse which are the opposites in the population which are less susceptible.

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